Training volume leading up to races?

walsht1105

This is the training plan which I have stuck with from August 10 to Feb 11 (I have made various has the time went on so it started with less press ups,chins ups, and 30mins less in the morning session for the first few week):-

Monday – rest

Tuesday –
Morning: 1.5 hours turbo
Evening: Hill Laps (1.5hours)
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Wednesday -
Morning: 1.5 hours turbo
Evening: Gym Cardio Session (1hours) OR 1 hour Turbo Leg Spin
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Thursday -
Morning: 1.5 hours turbo
Evening: Hill Laps (1.5hours)
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Friday – rest

Saturday –
Morning: 3-5hours long steady miles
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Sunday -
Morning: 3-5hours long steady miles
Other: Press Ups (75) + Chin Ups (50)

I have my first race on 6th March, I will then be racing pretty much every weekend up until June (where my plan stops but I think I will probably end up racing every weekend up until August/September). I want to taper off my training ready for my first race so my new plan looks like this:-

Monday – rest

Tuesday –
Morning: 30miles outdoors, tempo session, 500m-1000m Climbing
Evening: Hill Laps (50mins)
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Wednesday -
Morning: Rest
Evening: 1 hour Turbo Leg Spin
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Tuesday –
Morning: 30miles outdoors, tempo session, 500m-1000m Climbing
Evening: Hill Laps (50mins)
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Friday – rest

Saturday –
Morning: 3-5hours tempo/steady ride with group
Other: Press Ups(75) + Chin Ups (50)

Sunday – Racing
If not:-
Morning: 3-5hours tempo ride with group
Other: Press Ups (75) + Chin Ups (50)

Do you think the above is too much in preparation for races at this early stage of the season? Should I ditch the hill lap session(s)? Should I be doing more/less in weeks leading up to races? What would you do?

I know everyone is different and one routine may work for one person but not the others but this is my first real season. My August-Feb period has put me in good conditioning for long miles but my legs don’t feel loose and nippy like they did before, so I think I need to drop the volume and increase the intensity for the less hours I do (my thought is – less hours > more intensity, more recovery time)

emx

press-ups and chin-ups...seriously...??

Your first race will tell you where you are lacking. Also, if you are racing on the Sunday, you really don't want to be doing 3+ hours the day before.....

GiantMike

I'M NOT AN EXPERT, but I'd say you are over-training. You run the risk of being fatigued and not performing as well as a result.

Personally I'd have at least the last 2 days off before the race to give my body the best chance to recover for the race.

walsht1105

I do the press ups and chin ups for core strength,

I thought most people did a light ride the day before a race to loosen the legs, you guys think no ride at all?

Overtraining is something I'm very aware of but I think the volume is alright at the minute, just not sure if it is going to leave me in best shape for a Sunday race.

I think your right about the races showing me where I'm lacking, so I might just keep with the plan I have made out, give or take thursdays hill laps session then see what I feel like on the 6th March, if I'm not anyway where I feel I should be then I will have to look to decrease/stop Saturday riding.

Thanks for the opinions

milese

What are hill laps? Hill repeats?

I'm no expert, but am racing Saturday and plan on doing a 'no more than threshold' hour on the turbo tonight, with a gentle 13 mile round trip commute on Friday.

3-5 hours before a race day seems careless.

amaferanga

Setting aside the issue of the volume, you seem to be doing lots of tempo riding with no interval type work. If this is your first season racing then prepare for a shock when you need to go balls out, recover for a minute, go balls out,.... All that tempo riding will do bugger all to prepare you for that. Is the group ride a proper training ride?

I'm far from an expert, but having done mostly tempo and threshold sessions so far this winter I'm about to introduce shorter, harder intervals into my training with less than a month til my first race.

walsht1105

Ye hill laps are repeats, it's not a big hill - takes about 1-2mins to climb it 700-800m long. I do 10 laps of an are which covers 1.8miles - so 2mins is full on effort with 5-6mins recovery to get back to the foot of the hill. Takes aabout 6-8mins (traffic depending) to get to my house to the start of the 'lap' so this adds another 15mins to the session.

I'm changing this so I'm literally going up and down the hill, so less recovery time - it takes 1-2mins to get up 1-2mins to get down (go down a different side of the hill) so thats a bout 30-40mins with 15mins to get to and from the house so 45-55mins for that session.

I don't find long rides taxing really, as long as I go at an easy pace so 3-5 hours might seem bad before a race but it aint 3-5 hours of hard riding. I find shorter and harder sessions more taxing on my legs, think this highlights my weakness - short sharp strength efforts..

SBezza

You can't be fresh for all races, otherwise training will be virtually no existent. What you want to do is target a few races, and build and taper for these.

If just doing well over a period of months is more up your street, then you will probably go into races on a more constant level, but your training will have to back off towards the end of each week so you are fresh enough for the race.

Also I wouldn't advise a 3hr+ tempo ride the day before a race, if done correctly, your race will be average at best. A tempo ride, is not a light ride in any stretch of the imagination, a 3 hr tempo ride should be hurting towards the end . An hour gentle spin might be OK, with a few short burst included in the ride.

As mentioned above some hard intervals on the turbo might be a good idea, or on the tempo rides random bursts of sprints of varing distances to get used to changes in pace required with road racing.

Zachariah

I'm about to do my second race this saturday. I've cut down the training so I'll have three full rest days beforehand. But, I am having to ride 40 miles to get to the race, where I'll have about an hour to stay warm/refresh, then race! Then 40 miles back home...Next stop, Paris-Roubaix...

Pokerface

Just curious - what level rider are you?


+1 to those who think 3-5 hours of riding (at ANY pace) the day before a race is a bad idea.

Velonutter

Yep like most have said, cut the training back and just spin gently for an hour if you have to the day before a race, but you need some serious speed work and intervals during the week.

Your core is probably already quite reasonable, so maybe some Gym work instead on the legs well before any racing might be useful, don't forget to allow a rest week after about every 10 weeks.

walsht1105

I'm cat 4 > I entered 3 races last year, I was shocking - got dropped on the bends, just couldn't maintain the sprint out of the corners.

I haven't been riding long, about 18months in total, the first 6months I got the bug, did a few long miles but not much, the second 6months I was out every weekend and some week days in the summer, the third 6months I have done strict training. I have improved massively in the last 6months.

The volume of training I do is probably too much for the level I'm at but I'm trying to play catch up (which is never a good idea) with the people that have been riding longer than me. I thinking the large volume now, with the less fresh legs, will work in my favour next season, but I want to get through this one - aiming for 3rd Cat by the end of the year.

So I need to get rid of the Saturday ride then.... gutted because I love doing the longer miles on the weekend.

amaferanga

You need to train smarter, not just longer. To get the most out of your hill repeats you'd probably be better doing on a different day to a 30 mile tempo ride (or at least do the tempo ride after the hill repeats).

Have you done any threshold (e.g. 2x20) or VO2max (e.g. 5x5) intervals through the winter?

SBezza

walsht1105 wrote:

So I need to get rid of the Saturday ride then.... gutted because I love doing the longer miles on the weekend.

Do a ride after the race then, you could do a ride the day before the race, just don't expect to do well, and if it is a hard race there is a good chance you will get dropped.

If you were getting dropped on the accelerations out of the bends last year, then work on this with sprinting out of corners on your normal rides.

MikeWW

walsht1105 wrote:

I'm cat 4 > I entered 3 races last year, I was shocking - got dropped on the bends, just couldn't maintain the sprint out of the corners.

I haven't been riding long, about 18months in total, the first 6months I got the bug, did a few long miles but not much, the second 6months I was out every weekend and some week days in the summer, the third 6months I have done strict training. I have improved massively in the last 6months.

The volume of training I do is probably too much for the level I'm at but I'm trying to play catch up (which is never a good idea) with the people that have been riding longer than me. I thinking the large volume now, with the less fresh legs, will work in my favour next season, but I want to get through this one - aiming for 3rd Cat by the end of the year.

So I need to get rid of the Saturday ride then.... gutted because I love doing the longer miles on the weekend.

The key to the crit races IMO is threshold work. You need to be able to max out and then recover quickly and be able to go again. Although you need some base endurance the races are only about an hour so you are going to cover less than 30 miles. What you do the day before a race is quite personal. I find I am far better having a ride with a few efforts thrown in than being off the bike
You also want to be careful about just doing the same thing each week. Your body is just going to get used to that and there will be diminishing benefits.

walsht1105

TBH I don't like the crits and I don't like the short races (1-2hrs) - Don't think they suite my best abilities. I think I will be better in a longer race (+3hrs) , I want to get my 3rd cat then enter the longer races but it seems the majority of 4th cat races are short 1-2hr stints where it's more about short efforts than drawn out endurance - maybe I'm wrong but this is they way it seems to me.

The Short sharp hill efforts (1-2mins) should be helping my sprint out of corners, surely?

I haven't done 20minsx2 sessions, most of my turbo plans are 1.5hrs with 6mins effort intervals (75-85% HRM) 6mins rest or 4mins effort intervals (90-95%) 6mins rest - I created different workouts using my Garmin 500, I manually increase the resistance > Tuesday would be High Cadence (100+ rpm), Weds - mixed cadence (90-95rpm) (go up 1 gear) , Thursday low cadence (85-90rpm) (go up 2 gears).

Its my first full season so I'm not expecting much in results, not expecting to get my Cat 3 but am hoping to get it > trying to not get my hopes up and end up being disappointed (but it's hard not to think your gonna be better than you are).

I'm prepared to be schooled on my first few races

walsht1105

So I should drop my saturday ride? I may drop wednesday then train Friday instead - just do 1-2 hour tempo ride.

So do Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Sunday - RACE ?

I should be looking for less volume, but shorter, smarter more intensive sessions?

Locate my weaknesses when doing the races and train for those specific weaknesses.

Question; if my weakness is riding in a group how do you get better at that - when the group sessions are saturday and sunday and they are always hard pacing?

jibberjim

walsht1105 wrote:

Its my first full season so I'm not expecting much in results, not expecting to get my Cat 3 but am hoping to get it > trying to not get my hopes up and end up being disappointed (but it's hard not to think your gonna be better than you are).

Seriously - you're over thinking it and over analysing your training. Don't even worry about trying to identify what your weaknesses and strengths might be. RACE, race as often as you can (racing is great training for racing) Fitness matters in 4th cat racing, but it's basically just threshold that matters. Yes if you have no threshold power a strong sprint can keep you in the race - but if you don't have a sprint, there's no way you'll be able to train it up enough to make a difference.

Equally as a 4th cat you probably won't be able to identify what your weaknesses are in fitness terms, as they'll almost certainly be masked by how much energy you waste in the actual race. So get out and race and learn the skills of racing.

I wouldn't drop the saturday ride all the time - yes it might harm your performance on the sunday - but not doing it will harm your performance on the next 4 sundays. As SBezza said above you can't be fresh for every race.

Learn to race, and train lots, and once you've moved up through the cats then you can start thinking about more complicated training plans.

milese

I did one cat 4 race last year and got shelled.

I've done more this winter than last, altohugh probably not as much as you.

walsht1105 wrote:

not expecting to get my Cat 3

I do. I mean, if I dont I dont, but if you dont believe you can pick up 10 points over a season then how do you mentally manage to do 1.5 hour turbo sessions!

jibberjim

Milese wrote:

I do. I mean, if I dont I dont, but if you dont believe you can pick up 10 points over a season then how do you mentally manage to do 1.5 hour turbo sessions!

Well I don't know how anyone manages to do 1.5 hour turbo sessions at all, but I train a lot, and picked up 1 point last year - points aren't everything, there's still a lot of fun to be had simply racing.

walsht1105

I want to believe that I will get 10 points, but I don't want to get my hopes up - so in my mind I'm setting myself up for not getting 10 points and to get dropped all the time. I thought I was gonna do OK in the few races I did, and I was gutted when I did as bad as I did. I realised that I was no where near the standard I needed to be and although I keep up with the quickest club runs I still can't be sure if I'm gonna be any good in the races this year.

Jim - I think your right and I do feel that just racing is going to give me more improvement than any training will do this season... Just want to make sure I do all I can to be in the best shape for the first race and for every race in the season. I accept I'm not going to be the 100% all of the time, but I want to make sure I'm not doing too little and not doing too much.

Think it's going to be a wait and see thing. I have decided what I'm doing for the next two weeks though:-

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Morning - Tempo / Evening - rest
Wednesday - Morning - Tempo / Evening - rest
Thursday - Morning - Rest / Evening - Hill Repeats
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Tempo ride with club
Sunday - Tempo ride with club

The week before the race:-

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - Morning - Tempo / Evening - rest
Wednesday - Morning - Hill Repeats / Evening - Rest
Thursday - Rest
Friday - Morning - Tempo / Evening - Rest
Saturday - Easy 1-2hr leg spin OR maybe ride with club
Sunday - RACE

When the light hours change and I have done a few races I'm going to look to change it...

Pokerface

Walsh - you're obviously keen and have the legs to train a lot. Maybe you're even going to be a good rider....


A quick and simple suggestion that may take you very far: invest a small amount of money in a coach. Someone that can channel all that energy in the right direction and get the most out of you.

You'd be surprised what a few simple tweaks here and there (such as NOT doing massive rides the day before races) can do to improve your performances.

Or as Jim said - just go out and race, race, race. You'll quickly discover if you are too tired on race days or not and where you are lacking.

TheDrunkMonk

Yikes! I was going to have a go at racing this year, I'm nowhere near this level.

Now I'm panicking. Might stop smoking...

walsht1105

Pokerface - I'm in the process of getting coaching, he wants me to have a labtest first which is something that I'm organizing but it's taking time. I definitely agree that a coach could help me alot and I do think a coach will probably tell me I'm doing too much volume and probably say to cut back.

I read your blog, goodluck this year - hope you meet your goals (and ultimate goal to get in 2012 paralympics)

DrunkMonk - Quitting smoking is probably a good idea lol

Zachariah

TheDrunkMonk wrote:

Yikes! I was going to have a go at racing this year, I'm nowhere near this level.

Now I'm panicking. Might stop smoking...

Don't panic. That won't help quitting. Consider instead a years' worth of cigs will buy an extremely tasty set of wheels.

And don't worry about the standard you're at. Just have a go.

eh

it seems the majority of 4th cat races are short 1-2hr stints where it's more about short efforts than drawn out endurance - maybe I'm wrong but this is they way it seems to me.

Afraid you are wrong, road racing is all about short efforts when needed. In fact when you step up to racing with E/1/2 riders not only is the distance longer but the short efforts are far more brutal generally until a decent break goes, then it tends to settle down a bit.

dennisn

Well for one thing, a 3-5 hour "steady" ride with a group the day before a race is not a good idea. In the first place group rides most often turn into impromtu races and all you'll accomplish is burning yourself out.
Remember, you're not a pro and most likely have other responsiblities and racing sure don't pay the bills. So don't neglect family, friends, job, etc. for the sake of beating yourself to death training and racing.