Cycling on protein bars?

curium

I started cycling last spring, damaged my ankle in a motorcycle accident in October and have got back on the bike last week.

I want to lose some weight, not loads. I currently weigh 93kg and I'm 1.86M. I'd quite like to be sub-90kg.

I don't have a huge amount of time for training as I have a 2 yo & and another on the way!

Most of my cycling is 12 miles to work and 12 miles back, plus a 10 mile local circular route on days when I'm not working.

I was looking at the data on my Garmin which suggests that I burn around 700 kcal typically on these rides which last just under 1 hour.

This got me thinking about the longer rides I am able to do during summer (Sportives and Sunday AM rides from Greenwich to Box Hill). Do I really need all the energy gels and drinks I was using last summer?

Each gel contains about 100 kcal and 500mL of Go Electrolyte 146 kcal.

Since I'm looking to burn fat, perhaps I should consume protein bars on my rides. My logic for this is that I once my glycogen stores have been exhausted, my muscles will start to burn fat. Your body still needs to maintain a minimum level of glucose in the blood for brain & nervous tissue.
You can't convert fat to glucose but you can convert protein to glucose, so once my glycogen is depleted muscle will start to be broken down to be converted to glucose to maintain blood glucose but proportionally more of this glucose will be used by nervous tissue while active muscle burns fat.
This is where the protein bars come in!

What do you reckon? Any one ridden on protein bars before? I'll stop by Decathlon this weekend to see what they have and try it out on my next long ride.

Alternatively, I could just go easy on the gels? Using just one an hour to keep my body deprived of a big source of glucose.

danowat

curium wrote:

This got me thinking about the longer rides I am able to do during summer (Sportives and Sunday AM rides from Greenwich to Box Hill). Do I really need all the energy gels and drinks I was using last summer?

Since I'm looking to burn fat, perhaps I should consume protein bars on my rides. My logic for this is that I once my glycogen stores have been exhausted, my muscles will start to burn fat. Your body still needs to maintain a minimum level of glucose in the blood for brain & nervous tissue.
You can't convert fat to glucose but you can convert protein to glucose, so once my glycogen is depleted muscle will start to be broken down to be converted to glucose to maintain blood glucose but proportionally more of this glucose will be used by nervous tissue while active muscle burns fat.

Depends on the length and intesity of the ride.

As for the second part, you really need to read up a little more about how the energy systems work, because there are some fundemental errors in your thinking.

curium

danowat wrote:

As for the second part, you really need to read up a little more about how the energy systems work, because there are some fundemental errors in your thinking.

Which bit is incorrect?

ut_och_cykla

Fat to glucose does work - but its a slow process and explains why you go slower once glycogen is finished. For rides under 2 hours you should not really need more than some water if you eat normally & something afterwards - though clearly how often and how hard also plays a part! Even protein bars are not carb free (I believe). But your idea might work for you if you ride steadily & not too hard. Others succeed on LCHF diets. Try it (take a gel incase you run out of energy!) - it will probably need a few weeks for your body to adjust to fewer carbs.

amaferanga

I'd be careful if you're using the 700kCal figure from your Garmin to guide your calorie intake. 700kCal/hour to cycle at 12mph seems like a lot to me.

danowat

curium wrote:

danowat wrote:

As for the second part, you really need to read up a little more about how the energy systems work, because there are some fundemental errors in your thinking.

Which bit is incorrect?

Firstly, you really don't want to get into glucogen depletion in the first place, the body will only start to burn lean tissue (protien) if the intesity is too high to allow it to metabolise fat.

Secondly, do you think that the protein you are consuming is going to be digested and metabolised fast enough to replace the protien that your body is consuming in its glucogen depleted state?

If you REALLY want to ride on a VLC diet, then you need to be very carefull of the intensity of your rides, otherwise you are just looking for trouble.

Personally, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

meanredspider

I'm highly sceptical of my Garmin calorie count (as are most folk) - it suggests I burn 2000kcal on my daily commute. Based upon that, the weight ought to be falling off me as I'm at least 1000kcals in deficit a day even on a "bad eating" day

curium

ut_och_cykla wrote:

Fat to glucose does work - but its a slow process and explains why you go slower once glycogen is finished.

Sources I've checked suggest that gluconeogenesis from fatty acids is not quantitatively significant in physiological terms. The glycerol component can be used but this is a relatively small component energy-wise when considering the entire lipid.
So once hepatic glycogen is exhausted, muscle protein is the main substrate for maintaining the blood glucose level.

meanredspider wrote:

I'm highly sceptical of my Garmin calorie count (as are most folk) - it suggests I burn 2000kcal on my daily commute. Based upon that, the weight ought to be falling off me as I'm at least 1000kcals in deficit a day even on a "bad eating" day

Does anyone know if the Garmin is more inaccurate in its calorie estimate than other cycle computers? Their website suggests that they use a calculation supplied by Firstbeat Technologies Ltd which is based on personal parameters & heartrate measurements:

Firstbeat Technologies Ltd wrote:

The method is easy to use. No individual calibration of heart rate levels is needed and only heart beat data and personal background parameters (e.g. age, height, weight, gender and physical activity level) are required for the estimation.

What do other cycle computers use? I have a Cateye V3 which I may use simultaneously for comparison.

danowat wrote:

Firstly, you really don't want to get into glucogen depletion in the first place, the body will only start to burn lean tissue (protien) if the intesity is too high to allow it to metabolise fat.

Secondly, do you think that the protein you are consuming is going to be digested and metabolised fast enough to replace the protien that your body is consuming in its glucogen depleted state?

If you REALLY want to ride on a VLC diet, then you need to be very carefull of the intensity of your rides, otherwise you are just looking for trouble.

Personally, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

A lot of this is speculative after talking with an amateur bodybuilder. After bulking he begins a 'cutting' diet which involves reducing his carbohydrate intake and increasing his intake of branched-chain amino-acids (BCAAs). Any carbs he does consume are of the complex kind.
Basically he forces his muscles to burn fat to emphasise them. The amino acids help to replenish the muscles which may be broken down to maintain blood glucose. Complex carbohydrates are broken down slowly which reduces the rise in insulin, this is important as insulin inhibits the use of fat as a fuel which is why consuming gels which result in a rapid rise in blood glucose (leading to insulin release) can be counter-productive when aiming to burn fat.

curium

Duplicate post :oops:

danowat

curium wrote:

A lot of this is speculative after talking with an amateur bodybuilder

:roll: I gave up there.......

Try it and see how you get on, thats all you can do

As for calorie calclation, its notoriously inaccurate

amaferanga

All HR-based calorie estimates should be used with caution.

Not all Garmin devices even use the same algorithm. I have a Forreunner 310XT and it underestimates kCal (for me) in comparison to the kCal figure I work out from my power data. Other Garmins such as the Edge 705 I believe overestimate significantly.

meanredspider

Even Garmin sell their latest HRMs on improved calorie calcs. Reading various forums (including the Garmin one) would suggest you won't be too far off if you take somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 the number it gives - especially if you're using it as part of some weight-loss regime. At my speed and weight, I think several sites suggest I'm burning around 600kcals to Garmin's 1000kcals.

sheffsimon

curium wrote:

I started cycling last spring, damaged my ankle in a motorcycle accident in October and have got back on the bike last week.

I want to lose some weight, not loads. I currently weigh 93kg and I'm 1.86M. I'd quite like to be sub-90kg.

I don't have a huge amount of time for training as I have a 2 yo & and another on the way!

Most of my cycling is 12 miles to work and 12 miles back, plus a 10 mile local circular route on days when I'm not working.

I was looking at the data on my Garmin which suggests that I burn around 700 kcal typically on these rides which last just under 1 hour.

This got me thinking about the longer rides I am able to do during summer (Sportives and Sunday AM rides from Greenwich to Box Hill). Do I really need all the energy gels and drinks I was using last summer?

Each gel contains about 100 kcal and 500mL of Go Electrolyte 146 kcal.

Since I'm looking to burn fat, perhaps I should consume protein bars on my rides. My logic for this is that I once my glycogen stores have been exhausted, my muscles will start to burn fat. Your body still needs to maintain a minimum level of glucose in the blood for brain & nervous tissue.
You can't convert fat to glucose but you can convert protein to glucose, so once my glycogen is depleted muscle will start to be broken down to be converted to glucose to maintain blood glucose but proportionally more of this glucose will be used by nervous tissue while active muscle burns fat.
This is where the protein bars come in!

What do you reckon? Any one ridden on protein bars before? I'll stop by Decathlon this weekend to see what they have and try it out on my next long ride.

Alternatively, I could just go easy on the gels? Using just one an hour to keep my body deprived of a big source of glucose.

Just ride yer f00kin bike hard - stop overthinking it and dont worry about all that energy bar sh1te, eat normal food - more than adequate for what you are doing on the bike.

simon_e

SheffSimon wrote:

Just ride yer f00kin bike hard - stop overthinking it and dont worry about all that energy bar sh1te, eat normal food - more than adequate for what you are doing on the bike.

+1.

This gets discussed regularly on these forums e.g. http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12753968

mrfpb

Protein bars will usually have a Carb:Protein ratio somewhere in the detail, typically 4 carb: 1 Protein, so you won't be avoiding carbs with a protein bar. Near the end of the ride hey will add carb fuel while getting some protein in your system for the recovery. But you don't need them if you can manage proper food.

As others have said, low intensity rides will put you in the fat burning zone, but they need to be 3hrs+ to work. A brisk walk has he same effect and works better for me, as I find it difficult not to push harder on the bike.

imposter2.0

Eight year old thread, dug up by a one-post spammer...

Alejandrosdog

amaferanga wrote:

I'd be careful if you're using the 700kCal figure from your Garmin to guide your calorie intake. 700kCal/hour to cycle at 12mph seems like a lot to me.

def agree with this. unless its uphill all the way there and back. in my limited experience stretching way back into the last millenium, Garmin and similar give much higher readings without HR monitors, lower with HR strap attached and much lower still with a power meter.

If you want to lose weight, try doing the commute but miss a meal once or twice a week. Youre hardly doing endurance activity so no need for loads of carbs. (broadly speaking) Stick with a high protein and veg diet, youll have enough energy for the commute and avoid wasting muscle.

cut booze if you use it

Alejandrosdog

Alejandrosdog wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

I'd be careful if you're using the 700kCal figure from your Garmin to guide your calorie intake. 700kCal/hour to cycle at 12mph seems like a lot to me.

def agree with this. unless its uphill all the way there and back. in my limited experience stretching way back into the last millenium, Garmin and similar give much higher readings without HR monitors, lower with HR strap attached and much lower still with a power meter.

If you want to lose weight, try doing the commute but miss a meal once or twice a week. Youre hardly doing endurance activity so no need for loads of carbs. (broadly speaking) Stick with a high protein and veg diet, youll have enough energy for the commute and avoid wasting muscle.

cut booze if you use it

EDIT : i got some tasty protein bars from Aldi and they were relatively cheap

StillGoing

Imposter wrote:

Eight year old thread, dug up by a one-post spammer...

Well, got to advertise their products somehow.