hip rotation - holding a flat back

cannonfodder
cannonfodder Posts: 183
edited February 2011 in Training, fitness and health
Hi

I find it difficult to rotate my hips forward and maintain a flatter back - which in turn leads to lower back ache after about an hour or so.

I think there are probably several things I could try - stretching hamstrings (a bit tight), core strength exercises (planks, press-ups ?), lunges for hip flexor strength, quad stretches (very tight) - but does anyone know what are the key things to try/eliminate?

Thanks

Comments

  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    Everything is interrelated so you're best going for something that covers off strength, muscle balance, flexibility and posture

    Pilates is what you need mate - can't recommend it too highly
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.

    I don't understand why you want to rotate your hips forward and try to get a flat back? Why don't you just sit on your bike and ride it hard, why make it more complicated?
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    chrisw12 wrote:
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.

    I don't understand why you want to rotate your hips forward and try to get a flat back? Why don't you just sit on your bike and ride it hard, why make it more complicated?

    Because his back aches...
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Garry H wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.

    I don't understand why you want to rotate your hips forward and try to get a flat back? Why don't you just sit on your bike and ride it hard, why make it more complicated?

    Because his back aches...
    :?

    I thought he was trying to say his back aches because he is trying to do something that is not natural to him (rotating hips and flattening the back)?
  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Garry H wrote:
    chrisw12 wrote:
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.

    I don't understand why you want to rotate your hips forward and try to get a flat back? Why don't you just sit on your bike and ride it hard, why make it more complicated?

    Because his back aches...
    :?

    I thought he was trying to say his back aches because he is trying to do something that is not natural to him (rotating hips and flattening the back)?

    I thought he was saying he can't get into the right position to ride comfortably so his back aches!
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    Yes, my back aches because I over-arch it (I think)

    Lots of general stuff on the web about core strength/flexibility issues and the lower back e.g.:

    http://www.ultracycling.com/training/flexibility.html


    Pilates is a good idea, thanks

    It gets worse quicker when I put the power down on my road bikes or my mtb whilst seated (very different positions).
  • Garry H
    Garry H Posts: 6,639
    By rolling your hips, do you mean a pelvic tilt?

    If it aches just the same on an MTB, perhaps you'd be better off going to see a good physio...
  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    cannonfodder wrote:
    Yes, my back aches because I over-arch it (I think)

    Lots of general stuff on the web about core strength/flexibility issues and the lower back e.g.:

    http://www.ultracycling.com/training/flexibility.html


    Pilates is a good idea, thanks

    It gets worse quicker when I put the power down on my road bikes or my mtb whilst seated (very different positions).
    Been there. In my case part of the story was that I was using my back muscles excessively to help my stomach muscles - like a lot of other people.
    Consequence is the back gets pulled out of plonk and hurts.
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    By rolling your hips, do you mean a pelvic tilt?

    Yes
    If it aches just the same on an MTB, perhaps you'd be better off going to see a good physio...

    Yes, I'm beginning to think that might be the best thing to do
    Been there. In my case part of the story was that I was using my back muscles excessively to help my stomach muscles - like a lot of other people.

    Yes, it feels like it might be the same issue - did you see a physio? Did you sort it out with core strength exercises?
  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    cannonfodder wrote:
    By rolling your hips, do you mean a pelvic tilt?

    Yes
    If it aches just the same on an MTB, perhaps you'd be better off going to see a good physio...

    Yes, I'm beginning to think that might be the best thing to do
    Been there. In my case part of the story was that I was using my back muscles excessively to help my stomach muscles - like a lot of other people.

    Yes, it feels like it might be the same issue - did you see a physio? Did you sort it out with core strength exercises?
    I went to pilates classes - these combine core strength exercises with exercises that stretch bits that are too tight and tighten bits that are too loose. Took a bit of time but I was very pleased with the outcome
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    Thanks,I was being slow not making the fairly small leap, after you had recommeded pilates at the beginning of the thread
  • mrwibble
    mrwibble Posts: 980
    Several sessions of deep sports massage to release probably very tight muscles in the lower back, glutes, quads etc. I have had similar problems in the psoas and needed strong massage.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    chrisw12 wrote:
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.


    I lost interest in the strength thread when the 'experts' started dueling!

    As for strengthening the core - I found that doing specific core exercises OFF the bike got me WAY more gains in that area than anything I ever did ON the bike.

    Not sure why anyone would say otherwise? (And I ride pretty much every day, so it's not a matter of not riding enough to make gains on the bike).
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited February 2011
    chrisw12 wrote:
    If you have a look at the strength thread in detail you might find that the best core exercise you could possibly do, to improve your cycling is to go out and ride your bike.


    Or is this another instance of 'specificity'?
  • chrisw12
    chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I just found the exact opposite tbh. I was having back pain when I wasn't ridding much but the more I ride the less pain I get. No need for any off the bike work. Seems common sense to me as long as your position is ok and there's no underlying problem.

    I suppose at the end of the day there's more than one way to skin a rat (or is it cat :? )
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    cannonfodder wrote:
    but does anyone know what are the key things to try/eliminate?
    1. having a bicycle that doesn't fit you properly
    2. doing way more than you are ready for
    3. see #1
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • mrwibble
    mrwibble Posts: 980
    Work muscles then relax muscles is a good way of thinking. Muscles need to rest just as much as being used.
  • cookiemonster
    cookiemonster Posts: 668
    Hi

    Interesting topic. My personal opinion is that hip position makes no difference to power or performance (hence cancellara can be reasonably quick with very "good" posture, while the rounded-backs and lower spine pressure that contador and armstrong experience doesnt seem to slow them down). However, I'm not a 25 or even 30 year old pro cyclist; I dont spend upwards of 20 hours on my bike a week; and I havent been doing so since i was 11. The reason that hip alignment is important for me, and the vast majority of folk on this forum, is because I want to protect my back both for today and for the future. This, for me, doesnt come naturally - even with a well fitting bike, my natural tendency is to roll my hips back putting pressure on my spine. So, in response to Alex, this is neither about having a well fitting bike, nor doing more than you are ready for.

    Try it yourself - sit on your bike, hold onto the bars and roll your hips forward, then roll them back. You'll likely find that there's quite a range of movement and hence a large variance in the angle of your hips, with a corresponding roundedness or flatness in your back. You may be lucky and naturally gravitate towards a flat lower back, or you may be unlucky like me, and naturally stick with a curve that puts pressure on your spine.

    If you worry about your lower back, then perhaps its worth putting some effort into core strength off the bike and some thought into hip positioning while on the bike (pilates, yoga, alexander technique, whatever works for you). If it doesnt concern you then just consider yourself lucky :)

    Couple of interesting articles discussing this stuff (not all I agree with, but there you go):

    http://kingbikefit.com/efficient-cyclin ... re-part-1/
    http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2 ... sture.html

    jon

Categories