Common relationships bertween power over different periods?

neeb

It's common to see power output in W / Kg expressed over 5s, 1 min, 5 min and FT intervals. Is it normal for someone who is good at one of these to be good at a particular one of the others, or is the whole point of using these periods the fact that they vary independently?

I seem to be OK at FT and over 5mins, but my 1min and 5s are dramatically worse. What I'm wondering is whether most people who are good at FT but bad over 1min would be intermediate over 5mins, and hence whether my OK 5min effort is a strength in itself or just a product of being OK at FT.

jibberjim

They should be grouped into 3 really 5second, 1 minute and everything else. The major difference in the 3 is energy systems involved.

It's very unlikely to have a good 60minute without a good 5 minute.

amaferanga

Do you have Training and Racing with a Power Meter?

neeb

They should be grouped into 3 really 5second, 1 minute and everything else. The major difference in the 3 is energy systems involved.

It's very unlikely to have a good 60minute without a good 5 minute.

Ok, that makes sense. So I only have one respectably functioning energy system...

Do you have Training and Racing with a Power Meter?

I've got a tacx fortius indoor trainer - not very accurate I know, but good enough to get ballpark figures (or at least compare different efforts).

amaferanga

Its the book by Allen and Coggan. Well worth getting if you want to understand more about training with power.

neeb

Its the book by Allen and Coggan.

Oh, OK, I see. I'll perhaps check that out.

jibberjim

neeb wrote:

Do you have Training and Racing with a Power Meter?

I've got a tacx fortius indoor trainer - not very accurate I know, but good enough to get ballpark figures (or at least compare different efforts).

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you'd struggle to get anything like the same numbers for 5sec and 1 minute on an indoor trainer! Especially a potentially unreliable one that likely gets more unreliable at high powers.

CoachFerg

Usually one has a zone they tend to fit in. Quite possibly too high a 5sec W/kg may mean you are suited to strength and power sports and although this reflects neuromuscular power it doesn't represent the power need to be competitive in sprint and track TT events.

I have set up 4 charts in TrainingPeaks based on Fatigue Profiling and record the following max mean power levels....

L4 20min AP, 60min NP, 90min NP
L5 3min AP, 5min AP, 8min AP
L6 30sec AP, 60sec AP 120sec AP
L7 5 sec AP 10sec AP 20sec AP

So I can track progress. For my roadies and XC we only monitor levels 4 and 5 and track sprint, BMX and Downhill just 6 and 7 and track enduro pretty much everything.

neeb

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you'd struggle to get anything like the same numbers for 5sec and 1 minute on an indoor trainer! Especially a potentially unreliable one that likely gets more unreliable at high powers.

I hope you're right. According to this chart, I'm just over the line into "very good" for FT and 5min, but pretty much "untrained" for 5s and 1min...

And yet I don't feel at a massive disadvantage during short-medium efforts when going against other people.

neeb

L5 3min AP, 5min AP, 8min AP

For my roadies and XC we only monitor levels 4 and 5

Is there a significant difference between 3min and 5min?

a_n_t

Guess its like saying are there any marathon runners good at the 100M?

CoachFerg

neeb wrote:

L5 3min AP, 5min AP, 8min AP

For my roadies and XC we only monitor levels 4 and 5

Is there a significant difference between 3min and 5min?

Depends on the efforts one does. 3min efforts see a big gap between 3min power and 5-8min power while a 8min effort see a pretty close power between the three durations although 3min will be lower than personal best 3min power.

Shows the importance of pacing efforts and selecting a power zone that matches you goal effort. 2000-3000m pursuit 3min power, 4000m pursuit 5min power (unless named Bobridge or Dennis) and 8min power for riders training for prologue TTs.

@ant yes a good way to pick a horse for each course. We have a athlete come from our recently defunct bob sled team (an event won, if you believe Cool Runnings, in the 30m sprint at the start who has a stupid high peak power (2300 watts)). Way higher than the NZ sprint team but even with a year on the bike he still can't convert the speed into power on the bike from a standing start, accelerating or off a fast wheel. Too much 5 sec power for his own good, as a cyclist at least?