OT!!!... New MTB frame questions...

hopper1

Ok, I did post this on the MTB buying advice page, but, after 2 days, got no takers... Probably didn't want to help a roadie... Feck 'em!... :twisted:

Looking to buy a new MTB frame. Currently got a Giant NRS 1F/S, but only need a nice short travel HT for my area (Norfolk/Thetford).
I was thinking of a Giant GTX, Scott Scale, then I saw the On One Whippet...
Once I've decided on a frame, I will then need good forks. Mainly singletrack, no big jumps, etc... Last time I thought of upgrading, I was thinking of Rock Shox Sidi's, but what else is out there now...
Thanks in advance for advice.
Prowling MTBers feel free to flame!

niblue

I've only ridden the steel on-one bikes myself (I've had several Inbreds including currently having one of the slot-dropout ones) and haven't yet tried (or even seen) one of the carbon Whippets. It does look good value however, and general feedback on them at the Singletrackworld forum seems good (although it's generally agreed that they are no lookers!).

They're corrected for up to 120mm forks but I'd expect most folks will run them with 100mm. If you're looking to build a light XC bike then SID's are a good option, especially now that they're available at 100mm travel (I think there is even an 120mm version) and are much stiffer than the older ones used to be.

I run SID's on a couple of my bikes (Specialized Epic and a very light Dave Hinde M3 hardtail) and find then good performers, although my experience is that the Team versions are nicer in use than the Race ones. There are other forks worth considering in the 100mm range though - I have Fox Floats on several bikes and find them very good.

hopper1

Thanks for the input, niblue.
Having seen the Whippet in the 'Your Rides' section of the BR MTB forum, I think it is quite a good looking frame. :oops:
I thought the Sid's would come in good for what I want, namely a light singletrack/XC racer... Just seen the price of the Sid WC's, though!!! 899GBP strewth!!! Are they really that good?
May have to look at the Fox's, though I guess you only get what you pay for.

ride_whenever

I'd go for the whippet, the scale is lighter, but you're looking at the top end frame which is many many monies.

Sids are nice (i've got a set on my white inbred) but the rebas are a bit stiffer.

Personally i'd go for the whippet with a set of sid RLT Ti with the 15mm maxle (120mm) and possibly space them down internally to 100mm if you want the front end steeper. However that is madly expensive.

The whippet frameset bundle with rebas is great value and the rebas aren't massively heavier than the sids. However you get the more basic damping cartridge, which is expensive to upgrade (although probably still cheaper than buying the forks separately)

Have you considered a 29r, might well fit what you're looking for better as it should roll a lot faster, again the 29r f+f package represents great value on the on one website.

hopper1

To be honest, I nver even considered a 29r... I don't know anyone with one, and have never set eyes on one, either!
I liked the 26" wheels, and still think 'If it ain't broke, .....'
Not wishing to be a dinasaur, if there's good reason to change, I'll look into it.

eh

I'd definitely look at a 29ner based on the type of riding you do, almost no one in the States now races XC on 26" wheels, all on 29".

hopper1

eh wrote:

I'd definitely look at a 29ner based on the type of riding you do, almost no one in the States now races XC on 26" wheels, all on 29".

Really... Best I look into this...

What's the big deal with the SID's tapered steerer... new technology...

niblue

29ers aren't for everyone although undoubtedly quick in non-technical XC races. If you're over 6ft then definitely give 29ers a look, if under then I'm not so convinced - especially as small framed 29er MTB's tend to look quite odd!

hopper1

niblue wrote:

29ers aren't for everyone although undoubtedly quick in non-technical XC races. If you're over 6ft then definitely give 29ers a look, if under then I'm not so convinced - especially as small framed 29er MTB's tend to look quite odd!

That's what I thought, especially as my last HT was a 16" frame!

hopper1

niblue wrote:

29ers aren't for everyone although undoubtedly quick in non-technical XC races. If you're over 6ft then definitely give 29ers a look, if under then I'm not so convinced - especially as small framed 29er MTB's tend to look quite odd!

That's what I thought, especially as my last HT was a 16" frame!

CarbonCopy

I`ve got an absolutely mint scott scale 30 frame for sale (16" size small )complete with kcnc seat post and xtr front mech also 170mm kcnc chainset and headset all like new.pm me hopper if your interested and i will email you some pictures and we can negotiate a fair price.cheers

springtide9

I also like the On-One bikes... but never ridden one.

Had a Rock Lobster Ti - which was a lovely HT (with a set of Rebas). I've also ridden the Ali RL and that was also very nice indeed ... and loved the geometry.

I personally prefer around 100mm up front for single track. SID's are lighter with less travel, where as the trend seems to be more like 120-140mm up front nowadays. I had a set of Reba U-Turns which allowed a little bit of adjustment of the front end, with a slight compromise with weight. Had the advantage of being able to wind up the front end a little when needed.

Couldn't recommend the RL enough. Great bike and was sad to see it go.

hopper1

After surfing through Singletrack, I'm not too sure on the Whippet now, very little clearance between BB and Granny ring!.... Sounds nasty.
Ho, hum, back to the drawing board...
How do Fox & Pace shocks rate against the SID's?...

dommccabe17

Don't know about the whippet but i've had an inbred and a rocklobster 853. rocklobster was just too short in the top tube for me - lovely frame though with really nice feel. Inbred felt less springy and was heavier but was always a better fit in the top tube. Ordered a 1/2 price scandal this week so going to build that up at the weekend. Forks - marzocchi have a new 100mm lightweight fork out - superleggera £299 @ CRC. Found Marzocchi to be the most reliable and less service hungry of the forks I've had.

hopper1

I think maybe an XTC frame, or Scale, with a top fork combo...

ride_whenever

Read the review on the scale 29r not a bad plan...

Rich.H

I have a BNIB 2011 XTC Advanced Sl frameset (med) that I no longer require.

I havent got around to offering it for sale as yet but PM if you wish to follow up

Cheers

Rich

MattC59

Hi hopper !

One one are great bikes. The 456 is available in various guises, steel, ti and carbon and gers great reviews, but it depends what you want it for, it might be a bit slack angled for your needs'.
As you've mentioned a 16" frame, I'm assuming that you're not over 6', so a 29er might be a little odd. As the frame gets smaller it becomes more difficult to keep the frame in proportion and the geometry right for the suspension.

I've only ridden at Thetford Forest once, and I don't remember it being overly technical, so a 29er might be a suitable if you can find one that fits. That said, there's nothing wrong with a 26er, and it will have an advantage when winding through the trees.

What sort of budget are you looking at ?

With out wanting to teach you to suck eggs, HT frames tend to fall into 'XC' or 'Trail' categories. XC tends to be more 'arse in the air' where as trail tends to be more relaxed and suited to longer travel forks.

Regarding forks, for the riding you've suggested, I'd stick with 100mm of travel. HT frames designed for 130mm and above forks tend to have slacker angles and are more trail/gravity orientated. You really can't go wrong with Fox air forks (IMO), I've had a set on my Kona for about 4years now, they're still buttery smooth and they've had minimal cleaning. Prices have gone up over hte years, but there are some fantastic deals out there on previous years' models. Have a look at Merlin Cycles, they often come up trumps. A mate of mine has Rockshox Revalations on his old HT, which was designed for a 75mm fork. It's jacked up the front end a little, but not som much that it's a problem.

From what you've said, a trail orientated frame with 100mm fork sounds like it'll be fine. With the shorter fork, you'll get marginally steeper geometry and more XC like handling, won't have 130mm+ forks to drag up those Thetford hills, but will have sufficiently slack angles for belting back down them

The tapered steerer uses a 1 1/8" race at the top of the steerer and a 1 1/4" race at the bottom. The larger race gives better stifness where it's needed. Do you need it ? Probably not around Thetford. My FS Kona has a standard 1 1/8" steerer and it's been subjected to an awful lot of abuse at various trail centers around the UK with out skipping a beat.

markos1963

Splitter!!!

hopper1

markos1963 wrote:

Splitter!!!

:shock: Is that like a turn coat!?...

Not splitting, Markos, just fancy something for playing in the trees, on the days when I can step away from the PT and data collection.
If I ever was to 'split', it would be to a TT only bike.

hopper1

Thanks for your input, MattC59.
At 5'8", I think the 26er is best for me and my riding. 29ers seem wrong, somehow!
Not really set a budget :shock: , but some of that dirt kit knocks my roadie parts into the shade!
I like riding singletrack, 80-100mm travel up front, with lock out. XC racer, agile and fast... Oh, and light
I can see this spiralling out of control... :roll:

markos1963

Only joking mate, would love to go MTBing but time and money have other priorities

hopper1

markos1963 wrote:

Only joking mate, would love to go MTBing but time and money have other priorities

Oops, forgot emoticon at the end (now editted!).
I know you're only kidding, mate...

Where are we racing this year... Snetterton, or that Glider Club place, Tiv...?
Have to start riding Gas Hill soon! :shock:

markos1963

Probably the glider club from what I hear. Not sure if i'll do it, going to try and concentrate on TTing this season but might be tempted to grind up Gas Hill(if I can lose 3st before hand!)

niblue

hopper1 wrote:

How do Fox & Pace shocks rate against the SID's?...

The most comparable Fox forks to SID's would probably be the Floats and I've got those various versions of those on my bikes - plus a couple of frames that I've used both Fox Floats and SID's on. My Epic used to have Float 100mm's on it but now has SID Teams - in use I'd perhaps marginally prefer the action of the Floats but the SIDs are also good and a fair bit lighter. On my Van Nicholas Zion I went the other way - initially it had SID Race on it but I've since switched to Float 90's as while they're heavier they're much better in use. I've also got Fox forks on a couple of other bikes (Float 120mm's on my S-Works Enduro and Talas on my BFe) and find them very good. I've also used the coil sprung Vanillas on bikes before and they are wonderful in use, although a fair bit heavier than air forks.

Pace I've only used the RC31's (currently on a singlespeed Inbred) and a set of RC41 Fighters (a 160mm air fork) which I sometimes use on the BFe. They are very light for their travel but the suspension forks are a bit on the fragile side. When riding in groups I think the only forks I've every actually seen fail during a ride have been Pace ones - and I've seen that happen more than once.

MattC59

hopper1 wrote:

Thanks for your input, MattC59.
At 5'8", I think the 26er is best for me and my riding. 29ers seem wrong, somehow!
Not really set a budget :shock: , but some of that dirt kit knocks my roadie parts into the shade!
I like riding singletrack, 80-100mm travel up front, with lock out. XC racer, agile and fast... Oh, and light
I can see this spiralling out of control... :roll:

No problem

Have a look at Konas and the Scott Scale. The Kona Kula always gets good reviews (I've still got a '93 Kilauea which still feels very modern !) and the Scott Scale bikes are great !

However, what you've described.........

hopper1 wrote:

I like riding singletrack, 80-100mm travel up front, with lock out. XC racer, agile and fast... Oh, and light

....... is the Giant Anthem X. It's a single track rocket !! It's light, agile, very fast and the maestro suspension is second to none for fast single track riding. I've got a mate who has one. He races it very successfully in the Southern XC series, but it's equally at home when he's thrashing around the Welsh trail centers as well.

The maestro suspension is amazing. When you're riding, it feels as if you're on a smooth track and it's not working.......... until you look at it and notice it's working away like crazy.

You can get a 2010 Anthem X4 with Fox Float R forks and Deore kit for about £1350, weighiing in at 27lbs. At the other end of the scale is the Anthem X Advanced SL, with Rockshox SID SL forks and SRAM XX kit, weighing in at 21.8 lbs, for about £5950. Obviously there's several in between

springtide9

+1 for the Anthems. FS has come a long way. I was a die hard (and on many occasions stated I've never go FS).... but did last year (have a Commie Super4).

A few friends have the Anthem - great bikes. Still lots of fun and light.

eh

I'm assuming that you're not over 6', so a 29er might be a little odd.

Rubbish, no one bats an eyelid at people under 6' riding cyclocross bikes. All the Gary Fisher womens team last year were on 29ners and some of them are 5'5" or shorter, yet their results speak for themselves.

I can't be arsed getting into a big debate, if the OP doesn't like them fine, but just saying that the height issue unless you are about 5' or less, is a bit guff with modern designs.

hopper1

Not knocking 29er's, but to me, they would seem a bit out of proportion with a small frame.
They must be competative, or there wouldn't be a market for them.

Avanti Roman

I'd say Rockshox Rebas offer the best value/performance for a light fast XC bike.

Nearly as light as SIDs but much cheaper and as mentioned Merlin are good for Reba deals. Otherwise decent used £4-600 rrp Fox XC forks often come up on ebay for around £150.

Quite fancy an One One carbon 29er as my next hardtail with 1x10speed (36 chainring, 11-36 cassette = 28-91in)

hopper1

Now considering revamping my NRS 1, but I think it's capabilities will always be limited by the rear shock and linkage...