Headcams on BBC Breakfast

rjsterry

Don't know if anyone else spotted this this morning, but there was a feature on the increasing use of headcams (or 'camera helmets' as they insisted on calling them :roll:) by cycle commuters as a way to provide something more than 'their word' in the case of an accident (witnesses often being scarce or unwilling). The now semi-famous Mr Porter was interviewed and his footage of being cut up then threatened by a van driver was shown, as was that clip of the tanker carving someone up at a roundabout (was it Magnatom?). They also had a few words from a PI lawyer suggesting that footage may help in any action.

Oddly, the report was hedged around with various warnings that those of a nervous disposition or children might want to look away due to the footage of the incidents. Although they did mention that cycling is getting safer, the emphasis was unfortunately on the danger posed by careless and/or aggressive driving.

Sadly, the feedback from the feature was of the usual 'they should be registered and pay tax/they're all lycra louts' variety. Bit of a missed opportunity really, which was a shame as the reporter seemed to be broadly sympathetic to cyclists.

Mark Elvin

Which reminds me, I need to find a half decent camera with a helmet mount. ANy suggestions?

iPete

I've not watched yet but assume this is part of it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181

edit: bloody hell, full on road rage incident, driver was a knuckle dragger but I'd have hit the brakes (probably!) before the corner if I was going to get squeezed. Glad he got prosecuted mind.

I still have no intention of using my Camera for this though.

rjsterry

Yep that was a large part of it.

Headhuunter

Yep I saw that. Tha knuckle dragger in the van is shocking, he literally purposefully drove the cyclist off the road and then got aggressive when the cyclist banged on the side of his van

iPete

I'm surprised the prosecution was careless driving and not assault? Can't watch the video again but looks like he went for the cyclist?

Oddly, I spotted the car from this guys more famous video this morning, gave me loads of room

Mr Plum

I didn't spot it but glad that the subject got some exposure on a widely watched programme - if drivers realise that there is an increasing chance of being caught on camera then it may start to change the driving habits of some.

Origamist

iPete wrote:

I'm surprised the prosecution was careless driving and not assault? Can't watch the video again but looks like he went for the cyclist?

Oddly, I spotted the car from this guys more famous video this morning, gave me loads of room

Pete, you're confusing Martin Porter (aka the cycling silk) with Ben Porter. The latter appears on the BBC item (van - road rage incident) and also posts on BR.

W1

Origamist wrote:

iPete wrote:

I'm surprised the prosecution was careless driving and not assault? Can't watch the video again but looks like he went for the cyclist?

Oddly, I spotted the car from this guys more famous video this morning, gave me loads of room

Pete, you're confusing Martin Porter (aka the cycling silk) with Ben Porter. The latter appears on the BBC item (van - road rage incident) and also posts on BR.

Yep, was going to say - not the same chap. That tanker was staggering, as was the moron in the van.

asprilla

iPete wrote:

I'm surprised the prosecution was careless driving and not assault? Can't watch the video again but looks like he went for the cyclist?

The assault wasn't caught on camera, unfortunately.

rich_e

Remember seeing that footage when he (don't know his username) posted it on here. Glad it's got national exposure and the idiot has 5 points on his license!

W1

Fuller article here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486

KonaMike

Heres the full feature :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af4n6wZCgs0

gaz545

rjsterry wrote:

The now semi-famous Mr Porter

There are two Mr Porters that use cameras whilst cycling. The one in this peice is not the one you refer to.

kelsen

Sorry for going OT, but Sian looks particularly yummy this morning!

Bassjunkieuk

Saw the feature whilst I was having brekkie this morning. Don't think it went as bad as it could have done considering the usual BBC take on cyclists. Did seem to over-empathise the "dangers" of cycling but then most helmet cam footage posted online is off poor driving so finding positive material could be difficult.

I think the chap from the CTC did a reasonable job of sticking up for cyclists and I do like his view that we need to move away from this tribal "us and them" mentality with car drivers. We are ALL road users, regardless of how we chose to get around on the roads, the respect should be mutual.

Funnily enough I did actually have another rider comment on my camera today: "Filming the traffic eh?" was his witty remark as we waited at the lights by Clapham North. I said "yeah today!" and he suggested I "send it to Boris". May have a look back over the footage as I'm sure I would have caught the same smarta$$ riding on the pavement back up the road as he couldn't wait in the traffic or filter properly....

rjsterry

Yes, I was checking on my toast at the time, and just heard the name Porter in relation to headcams. Apologies for the mistaken identity.

_Brun_

Does basic cycle training say that if a van is 3/4 of the way past you and indicating left, best practise is to maintain your position and scream as loudly as possible?

The driving is obviously terrible, but this is a perfect example of where just a little bit of pragmatism would turn a very scary incident into a complete non-event.

iPete

_Brun_ wrote:

Does basic cycle training say that if a van is 3/4 of the way past you and indicating left, best practise is to maintain your position and scream as loudly as possible?

The driving is obviously terrible, but this is a perfect example of where just a little bit of pragmatism would turn a very scary incident into a complete non-event.

Completely agree, as I said earlier, you can't blame the cyclist for the knuckle draggers actions but I don't see why dabbing the brake was not a viable option. Its something I've noticed with camera users, they tend to scream, shout, bang on cars and not change course, a little evasive action and there would be no confrontation.

As for the guy on the r/a, ouch, thats a tough one to react to, both of them. Thats the reason I want an even bigger front light.

hfidgen

iPete wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

Does basic cycle training say that if a van is 3/4 of the way past you and indicating left, best practise is to maintain your position and scream as loudly as possible?

The driving is obviously terrible, but this is a perfect example of where just a little bit of pragmatism would turn a very scary incident into a complete non-event.

Completely agree, as I said earlier, you can't blame the cyclist for the knuckle draggers actions but I don't see why dabbing the brake was not a viable option. Its something I've noticed with camera users, they tend to scream, shout, bang on cars and not change course, a little evasive action and there would be no confrontation.

As for the guy on the r/a, ouch, thats a tough one to react to, both of them. Thats the reason I want an even bigger front light.

Have to say I agree - not braking there was really quite stupid! Though I think my reaction (with or without cam) would definitely be brake, whilst shouting and screaming...

IMO hitting someones car crosses a line and makes things much more likely to turn aggro. A bit of shouting rarely gets a reaction if they've been a collossal penis like that but makes you feel better and might (just might) make them consider the cyclist.

Bassjunkieuk

hfidgen wrote:

iPete wrote:

_Brun_ wrote:

Does basic cycle training say that if a van is 3/4 of the way past you and indicating left, best practise is to maintain your position and scream as loudly as possible?

The driving is obviously terrible, but this is a perfect example of where just a little bit of pragmatism would turn a very scary incident into a complete non-event.

Completely agree, as I said earlier, you can't blame the cyclist for the knuckle draggers actions but I don't see why dabbing the brake was not a viable option. Its something I've noticed with camera users, they tend to scream, shout, bang on cars and not change course, a little evasive action and there would be no confrontation.

As for the guy on the r/a, ouch, thats a tough one to react to, both of them. Thats the reason I want an even bigger front light.

Have to say I agree - not braking there was really quite stupid! Though I think my reaction (with or without cam) would definitely be brake, whilst shouting and screaming...

IMO hitting someones car crosses a line and makes things much more likely to turn aggro. A bit of shouting rarely gets a reaction if they've been a collossal penis like that but makes you feel better and might (just might) make them consider the cyclist.

Another +1 here, it's all well and good catching the poor driving on camera but it's a bit difficult to post it to Youtube from hospital and nigh on impossible from the mortuary....

daccordimark

I have to agree with the other pragmatists here too.

I couldn't believe the way he shouted "stay right, stay right" as the van overtook. I like the way Mr. Porter described it as "asking for some room"! It was a bad bit of driving but honestly I would have braked and let him get out of the way. It's just not worth turning bad driving into an assault.

MrBlond

And another +1

That video reminded me exactly why I try to remain zen and not shout at or kick cars.

il_principe

I thought is was a poor piece, probably enough to put fence-sitters off cycling for good. Suggests that cycling is so dangerous that you need a camera for when you inevitably get hit. CTC guy was weak, harping on about a SMIDSY campaign/website that no motorist and precious few cyclists will ever see. Oh and the beeb rolled out the usual guff about RLJ'ing :roll: How about a positive piece on cycling in the UK? It's really not that bad ffs. My fiancee who has been nervous enough since my prang, can charging in saying 'be careful be careful.' Rubbish bit of reporting as far as I'm concerned.

rjsterry

Whilst I would tend to agree with the above, it may have been the case (although not possible to deduce from the video) that Mr Porter was already braking, but was not able to slow enough to avoid having to turn in with the van. It's quite difficult to judge speed accurately from a short clip like that.

robocolley

+1 MrBlond on the Zen attitude. Its all to easy to 'see red', its much harder to remain calm and back off and let the bad drivers move away from you.

Origamist

rjsterry wrote:

Whilst I would tend to agree with the above, it may have been the case (although not possible to deduce from the video) that Mr Porter was already braking, but was not able to slow enough to avoid having to turn in with the van. It's quite difficult to judge speed accurately from a short clip like that.

Bingo - A) the speed differential between the cyclist and the overtaking van driver is not great, a van has a longer wheelbase than your average car and C) the cyclist does brake (it's not an emergency bit of braking though), but almost simultaneously the van decelerates as it appraoches the left bend. Hence why they are parallel as they take the left turn.

What swung the carelesss driving charge was overtaking on a zebra crossing. The assualt charge did not stick as it was not clearly caught on camera, but it was enough for a public order conviction.

MrBlond

Sure, but he could have just muttered "wanker" under his breath and ridden on, like anyone else

iPete

rjsterry wrote:

Whilst I would tend to agree with the above, it may have been the case (although not possible to deduce from the video) that Mr Porter was already braking, but was not able to slow enough to avoid having to turn in with the van. It's quite difficult to judge speed accurately from a short clip like that.

At a guess, if you can bang on the side of a van, your not using both hands to brake.

daviesee

Il Principe wrote:

Rubbish bit of reporting as far as I'm concerned.

I thought the reporter came across as quite sympathetic and was throwing the RLJ etc for the CTC guy to respond to. He was playing Devil's advocate because we all know what the responses will be IMO. The CTC guy should have been ready for it and responded better.

rick_chasey

MrBlond wrote:

Sure, but he could have just muttered "wanker" under his breath and ridden on, like anyone else

He wouldn't be on the news though if he did that.