No power improvement in 18 months

Surfr

I just completed a ramp test this morning for the first time in 18 months and my WRpeak hasn't changed at all. I managed 346W today and did a 348W in November 2009. It wouldn't be so bad but I've been doing loads of training since then.

My weights dropped 20Kg so my power/weight will have improved but I'm a bit disappointed that I've not seen any improvement in power output.

I'd blame the Dyfi Enduro yesterday but I don't think that made a massive difference in the grand scheme of things. I felt fresh enough this morning.

SBezza

You did a race a day before a ramp test, I think you will find that probably made a fair difference, you won't have been fresh at all really.

Still considering the loss of weight that is a good improvement W/Kg wise.

Next time I would try and ensure a 48 hour rest period before a ramp test.

jibberjim

Was the ramp protocol the same? remember the protocols themselves can have a big impact on what your actual final number was.

Was the equipment the same? not all equipment is as calibrated as another.

But as SBezza says, lots of effort the day before may well have impacted it. Also once your trained, it starts to become very hard to move your power at VO2max, especially if you've not been training it specifically.

Surfr

Equipment was the same as was the lab. the point of exhaustion was slightly differently calculated. Previously We'd stopped when cadence dropped below 80 RPM for the second time. Today we went until I hit the wall, which was only a few seconds after the cadence dropped. Other than that it was the same machine. I've got my VO2Max figures back and they show a good improvement from 48ml/Kg/min up to 56ml/Kg/min so it's not all bad news. I might ask nicely and see if I can squeeze another ramp in at the end of the study and ensure I'm absolutely fresh for it.

jibberjim

Surfr wrote:

Equipment was the same as was the lab. the point of exhaustion was slightly differently calculated. Previously We'd stopped when cadence dropped below 80 RPM for the second time. Today we went until I hit the wall, which was only a few seconds after the cadence dropped.

Were you told to keep your cadence in a band, or was it at your freely chosen cadence? (the ref to 80 suggest the former) If I'm asked to keep it in a band I produce around 10% less watts in a ramp test.

Surfr wrote:

Other than that it was the same machine. I've got my VO2Max figures back and they show a good improvement from 48ml/Kg/min up to 56ml/Kg/min so it's not all bad news.

So you weigh over 100kg still? Or has your efficiency changed significantly between the studies, again if it has I'd question if you reached VO2max this time - did you have a flat o2 usage on the graph do you know?

Surfr

jibberjim wrote:

Surfr wrote:

Equipment was the same as was the lab. the point of exhaustion was slightly differently calculated. Previously We'd stopped when cadence dropped below 80 RPM for the second time. Today we went until I hit the wall, which was only a few seconds after the cadence dropped.

Were you told to keep your cadence in a band, or was it at your freely chosen cadence? (the ref to 80 suggest the former) If I'm asked to keep it in a band I produce around 10% less watts in a ramp test.

This was for my test 18 months ago. I was asked my average cadence, I picked 100 for a static bike. We agreed that the lower threshold would be 80 for the test and I would be given 1 warning if I dropped below. The second time I faultered signaled the end of the ramp.

In todays test we just worked to exhaustion. I kept a pretty steady 100 RPM until the final minute after dropping to 80, it didn't take me long to drop right down to 0 anyway.

jibberjim wrote:

So you weigh over 100kg still? Or has your efficiency changed significantly between the studies, again if it has I'd question if you reached VO2max this time - did you have a flat o2 usage on the graph do you know?

No I weighed 75.2Kg this morning. 18 months ago I was 92Kg. (172cm / 5'7" tall)

18 months ago I'd only recently started road cycling and had 1 year of mountain biking behind me. Factor in that I used to be obese and a 20 a day smoker so I wasn't coming into this with much fitness! I've done a lot of riding and training in those 18 months.

shockedsoshocked

If you're a subject for a study I'm surprised they let you do the test the day after a race.

jibberjim

Okay, so this is a little more interesting.

Absolute numbers you went from 4.4litres of O2 last year to this only 4.2litres. Given that you say you were badly overweight last time you should not have expected to have lost any at all, and you should really have expected to have gained from the training.

I don't know if you'd say you're still overweight as you're on the low end of trained still with the 56ml/kg But of course if you're still quite overweight then that's to be expected.

I'm querying the test, either in different executions - the change in cadence, the machine calibration etc. or in your failure to reach your max - that's why I'm most interested in a plot of O2 usage on a graph if you have one - so we can see if you reached VO2peak or not.

Do you have other indicators that you've improved during the time? Particularly anything you can isolate from the weight. I actually think your implied threshold for that area is perhaps a little low for your 27min sporting 10mile time on a cross bike, but you can't really tell without more info about your aerodynamics.

Do you actually train a lot, or do you spend a lot of time Just Riding Around? there is a difference.

Surfr

The data I have to hand says 4.2L for both studies. It's possible I have the 92Kg weight figure slightly wrong as I don't have that info in front of me.

I am slightly overweight I suppose now. my BMI figures put me just over the ideal weight band for my height but I am stocky too.

I'm afraid I only have the figures you've already seen at this point. For previous tests I've been given spreadsheet data with more values for things like Gas Exchange Threshold etc but I don't have the curves as they were displayed on screen during the test unfortunately.

My weekly winter training roughly consists of

1 hour core stability
1 hour circuit training
1 hour spin class (cycling clu)
1 hour turbo intervals (Sufferfest usually)
1 or 2 30 minute runs (8:30 minute miling. I'm not a serious runner)
1 coached swim training session (intervals, pyramids, drills etc)
3-4 hour sunday club run or MTB ride

in the summer though I'd be doing a lot more road miles. 70 mile club runs on Sundays, 10 - 40 mile hilly commutes, mid week mountain bike night rides, 2 chain gangs and the club 10 or 25 TTs.

I know I've probably done far too much cross-training over winter. I got carried away and I'm trying to redirect focus to the bike and intervals now in time for the season start. There's another thread on this particular subject in the same forum.

jibberjim

Surfr wrote:

I know I've probably done far too much cross-training over winter.

So maybe it is nothing more than you lost the VO2max specific cycling intervals and just couldn't hit the top end in the ramp test, some of the VO2max adaptations do have the shortest life (which is why people say to just do the hard intervals just before your season).

Overall your fitness is likely to be a lot better and a few weeks of VO2max work and you'll be well above it.

Next time you're doing the test - watch the graph if the O2 line doesn't start going flat, the test likely isn't valid - something is stopping you other than your O2 which is what it's designed to detect. I think this commonly happens if you're forced to keep a cadence that is not your preferred, but there may well be other reasons too - such as leg fatigue from a previous days hard race.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Surfr wrote:

My weekly winter training roughly consists of

1 hour core stability
1 hour circuit training
1 hour spin class (cycling clu)
1 hour turbo intervals (Sufferfest usually)
1 or 2 30 minute runs (8:30 minute miling. I'm not a serious runner)
1 coached swim training session (intervals, pyramids, drills etc)
3-4 hour sunday club run or MTB ride

Given how little cycling training you do, I'm not surprised by your numbers.

3-5 hours / week over 3 days/week on a bike won't really see much fitness improvement when that's all you do over a number of months. Out of that, maybe 1.5 - 2 hours is of any quality. Hard to say.

If you are looking for general health/fitness, no issue, but if it's cycling performance improvement you're especially after, you'll need to do somewhat more than that. Build up to double at least over a 2 month period and ride 5 days/week. Then you can ramp up some more when the weather is better and really get cracking on the bike.

Surfr

Sounds good to me and in line with what I was coming to terms with. I need more quality hours on the bike now after a winter of absence and general fitness training/weight control.

Thanks for your advice.