first ride after lots of turbo training

lastwords

havn't actually been out on my road bike for a while (I have been out trail riding on my singlespeed mtb though) however i have been using the turbo trainer a lot with sufferfest videos, i have been working really hard on the turbo as the videos tell you to.

Went out today and just didnt feel all that good on the bike struggled a bit and after 20miles was ready to go home, i feel fine and dont feel run down or anything out of the ordinary managed 26miles.

It appears the turbo is no substitue for just getting out there and riding has anyone else experienced this?

furrag

Riding trails and 1 hour sufferfest videos (say at average speed of 20mph) means you've probably lost endurance, but are now capable of being quick over an hour. Have you been doing any longer 3 hour/50 mile rides to maintain your volume?

Owing to the weather, I didn't manage any 50+ mile rides between 5th December and the 29th December. I managed some mountain biking in the snow, a couple of sessions on the turbo, and a few intervals over 25-30 miles. That first slow 50 miler I found very hard, but 48 hours later on New Years Eve I put in a 65 miler and was one of my strongest cycles in terms of working at high HR's for long periods.

tailwindhome

First road ride today after some turbo training

Felt awful.

Also very uncomfortable wearing a helmet.

SCR Pedro

I've done 50 road miles this month, but a good few turbo sessions. I experienced the same last year, and getting back out on the roads was a painful and slow experience. The good part was that it didn't take long at all to get back to a good level of fitness.

My problem is that I'm not keen enough to go out into the freezing cold for hours at a time, so I've accepted that I'm going to be pretty slow until around March.

Pedro

ozzzyosborn206

i don't know what other will say but it seems you are kind of doing your training the wrong way round, december, january and february are the months you need to be doin gthe long rides even if not on the road do 2/3 hours on the turbo 1 hours simply won't give you any base, then maybe halfway through jan and then for feb you start upping the intensity so when the proper racing starts you have a good base to build on and have a bit of speed in your legs

lastwords

thanks for the replies lost endurance sounds about right as i have done no rides over 2hrs since november when the snow began.

I understand what was said about the base training at this time of year but i could simply not put 3hrs in on the turbo and as i dont race i just want to keep my fitness this time of year and improve it over the summer.

hopefully get the miles in as the weather improves.

Buckled_Rims

I did 48 miles this morning felt great, not even tired. I suppose it's how you are using your turbo. It's no good just pedaling along on a turbo to a video if there's no real game plan. I never turbo for more them 45 minutes and I'm utterly wacked after it.

Turbos will not substitute road riding, but they can keep your technique good, keep you fit over bad weather, train you in interval training, experiment with riding positions, etc.

Turbos have always helped to maintain my riding over the winter, but as I say, it's how you use it as a tool. It's far too easy to just easily spin for 90 minutes, but hard to do grinding interval training for 30 minutes.

joeyhalloran

I completely disagree! I can't seem to do any easy riding on the turbo, and def not for 90 mins. I have to go hard to keep myself entertained, but I am the same as most on here. Often find after large blocks of turbo I lose my endurance but keep my speed.

furrag

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

i don't know what other will say but it seems you are kind of doing your training the wrong way round, december, january and february are the months you need to be doin gthe long rides even if not on the road do 2/3 hours on the turbo 1 hours simply won't give you any base, then maybe halfway through jan and then for feb you start upping the intensity so when the proper racing starts you have a good base to build on and have a bit of speed in your legs

Periodisation though depends on when you want to peak, which may be for an early season race or TT. There is reverse periodisation, in which you do intensity first and then build volume. It doesn't quite make sense to me though as surely you would lose your top end closer to the date?

jibberjim

Furrag wrote:

It doesn't quite make sense to me though as surely you would lose your top end closer to the date?

That would depend on what the mechanisms are that would cause them to be lost (or indeed gained in the first place)

starlet_gt

I broke my wrist back at the start of november last year. I did 8 hours a week on the turbo, 3 x 1 hour sessions during the week a 2 hour session on the saturday and 3 hours on the sunday. Started riding on the road again this month and came back quicker.

niblue

I used the turbo yesterday and went out on the road today. First half of the road ride wasn't fun (uphill and into the wind) but the returning home was great!

Average speeds seen to be about the same on the turbo (iMagic) and on the road for me.

chrisw12

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

i don't know what other will say but it seems you are kind of doing your training the wrong way round, december, january and february are the months you need to be doin gthe long rides even if not on the road do 2/3 hours on the turbo 1 hours simply won't give you any base, then maybe halfway through jan and then for feb you start upping the intensity so when the proper racing starts you have a good base to build on and have a bit of speed in your legs

A generalisation and simply not true for everyone. Don't fight our natural weather patterns unless you have to.[/b]

Zachariah

I can definitely say turbo-only preparation worked for me. I'd much rather have gone outside of course, but weather and family committments made it too difficult.

ozzzyosborn206

chrisw12 wrote:

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

i don't know what other will say but it seems you are kind of doing your training the wrong way round, december, january and february are the months you need to be doin gthe long rides even if not on the road do 2/3 hours on the turbo 1 hours simply won't give you any base, then maybe halfway through jan and then for feb you start upping the intensity so when the proper racing starts you have a good base to build on and have a bit of speed in your legs

A generalisation and simply not true for everyone. Don't fight our natural weather patterns unless you have to.[/b]

i was assuming he was building towards racing March- September

lastwords

Buckled_Rims wrote:

I did 48 miles this morning felt great, not even tired. I suppose it's how you are using your turbo. It's no good just pedaling along on a turbo to a video if there's no real game plan. I never turbo for more them 45 minutes and I'm utterly wacked after it.

Turbos will not substitute road riding, but they can keep your technique good, keep you fit over bad weather, train you in interval training, experiment with riding positions, etc.

Turbos have always helped to maintain my riding over the winter, but as I say, it's how you use it as a tool. It's far too easy to just easily spin for 90 minutes, but hard to do grinding interval training for 30 minutes.

As i said i use the sufferfest videos, Downward spiral which is interval training and fight club which is time trial efforts, at the end of the hour i feel like ive done a 3hr road ride at a very high intesity as the name suggests you do suffer.

I have also done 2x20 time trial efforts listening to music, i simply cannot use the turbo for steady riding tried it once and it was very boring.

SBezza

Turbo's are boring full stop, no matter what you do on them, but if the weather is bad then it is a case of needs must. I suppose it depends on why you cycle.

I won't do a 3-4 hour L2 ride on the turbo, but I will do 2-3 hours at a tempo pace, makes it more interesting, especially if you vary the pace during the session, but it helps massively with the base fitness.

No point just doing 1 hour high intensity, if when you get out on the road you can't even manage 20 miles IMO. If you want to be able to do longer rides, you either need to get out and ride on the roads, or just accept you need to do longer rides on the turbo.

Depending on where you live, it is not that bad on the roads, I have managed over 1,000 miles in Jan on the road, though I appreciate some areas of the country had been pretty badly hit.

ozzzyosborn206

you may 'feel' that tired but it is no substitute for actually doing the longer rides

Gav888

I cannot do steady state riding on the turbo as its too boring, but intervals are ok. At present im on a steady diet of 2x20's twice a week, with longer rides at the weekend. But it is tough with our lovely climate to do longer than 2 hours at the moment.

freehub

Most of my hard rides have been on a turbo for the past couple of months, anything on the road proper steady, and I went for a hilly ride yesterday and I was dead, 16 miles with 2000ft of ascent nearly killed me! I don't like turbos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

trickydisco

1 hours simply won't give you any base,

Load of rubbish

i started training early December to start racing this year. Most of my training on the rollers has been 1 hour max for base training (my level 2 zone)

This is an extract from the peter read black book about base training

The classic heart rate zone in which to train aerobic base is in the Level 2
zone. It is loosely 75-85% of your maximum heart rate

..if you can ride constantly at this level for more than 1½ to 2 hours then it is too easy.
Level 2 training is not easy, and long rides in excess of 2hours generally can't
be completed at this level.

SBezza

trickydisco wrote:

The classic heart rate zone in which to train aerobic base is in the Level 2
zone. It is loosely 75-85% of your maximum heart rate

..if you can ride constantly at this level for more than 1½ to 2 hours then it is too easy.
Level 2 training is not easy, and long rides in excess of 2hours generally can't
be completed at this level.

Sorry this is pure rubbish, at75% to 85% of my MaxHR, I can do more than 2 hours, it depends on how fit you are. You will need to do this to race IMO. 75% to 85% is normally around tempo level, whilst L1 (up to 75%) is normally classed as long ride intensity and is normally used as a guide rather than tempo (though I class both as good endurance base building levels). Peter Read uses different levels to others however, so the use of L1 and L2 might be different compared to other coaches

If you think 1 hour of base training is enough to get a decent base, then you will be mistaken once you get racing. You will get some base without a doubt, but it is unlikely to be as much as you might ideally need, unless you are doing 1 hour at 85% MaxHR alot.

trickydisco

Sorry this is pure rubbish, at75% to 85% of my MaxHR, I can do more than 2 hours, it depends on how fit you are. You will need to do this to race IMO. 75% to 85% is normally around tempo level, whilst L1 (up to 75%) is normally classed as long ride intensity and is normally used as a guide rather than tempo (though I class both as good endurance base building levels). Peter Read uses different levels to others however, so the use of L1 and L2 might be different compared to other coaches

So it's complete rubbish but then you say Peter read uses different levels?!

So you think Peter read is talking complete rubbish despite training many people to a high level?

If you think 1 hour of base training is enough to get a decent base, then you will be mistaken once you get racing.

All i know is i've taken a lot of the guesswork out by doing a v02max test where i got all my HR zones but also a coach since December and he has come up with my training plan week by week. I already have a fairly good base so perhaps he deems this enough by doing 1 hour sessions

SBezza

I said not being able to do over 2 hours at tempo pace is rubbish, sorry but I have done 4 hour rides at this level, so it isn't correct what he says.

Irrespective of the Levels, it is the intensity I am working on, his levels are the same as mine, so my L2 workouts are in the 75% to 85% range, and although these are shorter rides, you should be able to do more than 2 hours at this level if you want to race.

Longer than 2 hour rides would normally be done at Pete Reads L1 which will be up to 75% MaxHR, this is the traditional base building zone many work on, not the tempo level you first suggested. Though they can be done at a higher level if you are fit enough.

Pete Reads books are generic guides to be honest, as you would hopefully know that if you have a coach they should coach you based on your goals, how you personally respond to different training stimuli etc, and as such a book detailing training can only ever be used as a guide.

inseine

SBezza

No point just doing 1 hour high intensity, if when you get out on the road you can't even manage 20 miles IMO.

This doesn't make sense to me. Surely I hour high intensity is ideal prep for 20 miles? I can't see that if it is a problem then more long rides would help.
I do agree that turbo work doesn't seem to transfer directly to the road, but don't know why!

SBezza

I think the OP wanted to do more than 20 miles though, so if only doing 1 hour sessions mean you lose the ability to do more than 20 miles on the road, I can't see any point. Just grin and bear it and do longer sessions, either lower intensities, or perhaps a mixture of intensities.

For what it is worth, I think if you can do 1 hour of high intensity, then a 20 mile ride should be a relative breeze, but perhaps the OP is different.

When I was stuck on the turbo during the bad weather, I did shorter sessions than what was planned on the road, but I did them harder. For example 2 or 2.5 hours at tempo, this meant I didn't lose any road speed or endurance, though my endurance base is very good.

amaferanga

The only way I can tolerate 2 hours on the turbo at all is by dividing it up into 'intervals'. Even if the intervals are much the same (e.g. 10mins @ 230W, 10mins @ 240W, 10mins @ 235W, ...) it distracts me from thinking about the next 2 hours and I only think about the current/next 'interval' instead. I also sometimes tag some endurance/tempo pace riding onto the end of a harder session.

FWIW I've done a 5 hour ride with an average HR of 82% HRmax....

lastwords

I did intend on doing a longer ride on sunday but I felt tired after a very short distance however I went out today and did 30 miles before work and if time had permitted I would have easily gone further.

Even if I can't bear to do long rides on the turbo the 1hr sufferfest sessions surely do some good?

I was just expecting that after doing them I would have maintained my level of fitness when I got back on the road but it seems I have lost a bit of endurance