Sorry Lights again

vorsprung

Mark Elvin wrote:

ThatBikeGuy wrote:

Why would you ever need a 900 lumen light on the bike anyhow!? Surely your commute isn't *that* dark, maybe try dipping it and pointing towards the ground?

It is pointed downwards. The Bristol to Bath cycle path is pitch black, I mean no illumination at all in places.

Yes, 900 lumens is a lot, but how many times have I been nearly hit by motorists since fitting it? None.

Both my lights are made by B&M and comply with german road traffic regs

Basically the light has to be actually "on" the road and not lighting up trees, lamp posts, blinding drivers etc

I would guess the lights are two or three hundred lumens but no problems with lanes in pitch black or being seen by cars

Those P7 MTB lights splurg everything and are not suitable for road use

wyadvd

have an exposure maxxd myself.....do 15 miles cross county each way12 hr shifts.

Have a remote switch so i can dip it to minimum instantly. it does not dazzle on minimum. ive tried it.

Ive aslo had my bike leant up against my car facing the same way , withh the maxxd on maxx and the car on full beam on the car. the car is brighter and more intense ( not halide bulbs just normal)

why the hell dont we owe ourselves lights at least as bright as a car? or at least comparable?

tigger123

I have a Maxx D on my road bike and the amount of cars that now stop to let me through when cars are parked on their side of the road has increased dramatically. I was fed up with having to squeeze through a little gap between the pavement and a car on my side of the road coming towards me, a few inches away doing 30-40 mph. Better to be seen in my opinion and make them stop rather than be knocked off my bike by some inconsiderate and imaptient driver.

wyadvd

yes here, here to that. also ive noticed that next to car headlights in the real world, even quite bright bike lights fade to an insignifiicant flicker. I dont believe i dazzle anyone more than a other car ever would, (i know i dont) but i do command respect at night that i dont get during the day.

roger_merriman

wyadvd wrote:

yes here, here to that. also ive noticed that next to car headlights in the real world, even quite bright bike lights fade to an insignifiicant flicker. I dont believe i dazzle anyone more than a other car ever would, (i know i dont) but i do command respect at night that i dont get during the day.

one reason I often run my lights during the day, dull days etc.

wyadvd

roger merriman wrote:

wyadvd wrote:

yes here, here to that. also ive noticed that next to car headlights in the real world, even quite bright bike lights fade to an insignifiicant flicker. I dont believe i dazzle anyone more than a other car ever would, (i know i dont) but i do command respect at night that i dont get during the day.

one reason I often run my lights during the day, dull days etc.

yeah me too...maxxd on the front dinotte 300r on the back. im on my phone browser so posting a link is difficult, but there is an interesting study (prospective, but not double blind due to the fact that lights were involved!) on the reelights website. 4000 cyclists as i remeber half with and half without drls for a year. 30% difference in collision rate which was very statistically significant. and that was in copenhagen where the city is run by cyclists and the motoists are in the minority and love cyclists to bits! seasonally, they noticed an increased reduction in collisiions during the summer on sunny days in the drl group!!!

wyadvd

wyadvd wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

wyadvd wrote:

yes here, here to that. also ive noticed that next to car headlights in the real world, even quite bright bike lights fade to an insignifiicant flicker. I dont believe i dazzle anyone more than a other car ever would, (i know i dont) but i do command respect at night that i dont get during the day.

one reason I often run my lights during the day, dull days etc.

yeah me too...maxxd on the front dinotte 300r on the back. im on my phone browser so posting a link is difficult, but there is an interesting study (prospective, but not double blind due to the fact that lights were involved!) on the reelights website. 4000 cyclists as i remeber half with and half without drls for a year. 30% difference in collision rate which was very statistically significant. and that was in copenhagen where the city is run by cyclists and the motoists are in the minority and love cyclists to bits! seasonally, they noticed an increased reduction in collisiions during the summer on sunny days in the drl group!!!

here is the link:

http://www.reelight.com/Files/Billeder/ ... ORT_UK.pdf

antfly

A lot of people seem to use very bright mountain bike lights on the road which put as much light in the air as on the road and which dazzle oncoming people, or torches with a narrow concentrated beam which can be blinding if they hit you in the eye. Why not just use a road specific light that puts the light where you need it, on the road, and has a cut off so it doesn't dazzle people ? You don't need loads of lumens, just a well directed beam.

wyadvd

antfly wrote:

A lot of people seem to use very bright mountain bike lights on the road which put as much light in the air as on the road and which dazzle oncoming people, or torches with a narrow concentrated beam which can be blinding if they hit you in the eye. Why not just use a road specific light that puts the light where you need it, on the road, and has a cut off so it doesn't dazzle people ? You don't need loads of lumens, just a well directed beam.

well...... as I said, even the maxxd has a low setting which isn't at all dazzling (compared to my benchmark, which is a car headlight on dip beam).

There are two advantages to having a "blunderbuss" beam pattern at night on winding country lanes: 1. Avoidance of overhanging structures like branches of trees which is a real hazard in remote countryside during the autumn and winter period 2. If the beam throws upwards when on full beam, then it will be visible from miles away by observant motorists and cyclists coming the other way (and from behind) I know this is true because some motorists flash other motorists that are evidently still on full beam prior to emerging from a corner, in an effort to get them to dip before they emerge from the corner. And Motorists do that to me from MILES away, so they are expecting to see me when I emerge from the corner (with my beam already dipped of course).

To be fair though , I have not tried the likes of the exposure strada, which gives a flat dipped beam, buta "blunderbuss" full beam. I may consider.

nmac_2011

wyadvd wrote:

antfly wrote:

A lot of people seem to use very bright mountain bike lights on the road which put as much light in the air as on the road and which dazzle oncoming people, or torches with a narrow concentrated beam which can be blinding if they hit you in the eye. Why not just use a road specific light that puts the light where you need it, on the road, and has a cut off so it doesn't dazzle people ? You don't need loads of lumens, just a well directed beam.

well...... as I said, even the maxxd has a low setting which isn't at all dazzling (compared to my benchmark, which is a car headlight on dip beam).

There are two advantages to having a "blunderbuss" beam pattern at night on winding country lanes: 1. Avoidance of overhanging structures like branches of trees which is a real hazard in remote countryside during the autumn and winter period 2. If the beam throws upwards when on full beam, then it will be visible from miles away by observant motorists and cyclists coming the other way (and from behind) I know this is true because some motorists flash other motorists that are evidently still on full beam prior to emerging from a corner, in an effort to get them to dip before they emerge from the corner. And Motorists do that to me from MILES away, so they are expecting to see me when I emerge from the corner (with my beam already dipped of course).

To be fair though , I have not tried the likes of the exposure strada, which gives a flat dipped beam, buta "blunderbuss" full beam. I may consider.

I like the reasoning here so much that I have just ordered an Exposure six pack for use on dark country roads at night.
Will let you know how I find it compared to the two cateye single shot plus I currently use

A useful link showing various lights in action http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/2011-bike- ... rn-photos/

wyadvd

Single shot plus makes a goodhelmet light if a little heavy

antfly

Six pack for the road is just overkill, that's a mountain biking light and it weighs a ton.

nation

Depends on the road, surely.

The point of MTB lights is that their intended use is in situations where the lights you carry are the only available light.

wyadvd

if i went round with my maxxd on full beam all the time i reckon id cause an accident. but i dont. but there are situations as outlined in my previous post where i believe having a full beam setting available enhances my safety considerably on a pitch black rural commute.. if anyone is considering using a high end exposure light for road use shoul definitely have the remote switch also, for instant dipping ( like a car) and have ther central beam directed to the road surface about 10m ahead, and a few degrees to the left.IMO

Tonymufc

iPete wrote:

Agree with Mark..

Was nearly turned into by a car last night, I think having a Hope Vision 1 on the front alongside my blinker was the difference between the driver stopping or driving through me, has certainly got me thinking about adding a '900' lumen P7 to the collection. On a plus I can use it if I ever get around to doing a mtb night ride.

How good are these lights. Just recently bought one as I've started to do night rides with a club. On the road you well and truly get noticed. I also run it alongside a smart 1w set to flash.

nmac_2011

wyadvd wrote:

if i went round with my maxxd on full beam all the time i reckon id cause an accident. but i dont. but there are situations as outlined in my previous post where i believe having a full beam setting available enhances my safety considerably on a pitch black rural commute.. if anyone is considering using a high end exposure light for road use shoul definitely have the remote switch also, for instant dipping ( like a car) and have ther central beam directed to the road surface about 10m ahead, and a few degrees to the left.IMO

Just ordered that as well cheers for the heads up

nich

Tonymufc wrote:

iPete wrote:

Agree with Mark..

Was nearly turned into by a car last night, I think having a Hope Vision 1 on the front alongside my blinker was the difference between the driver stopping or driving through me, has certainly got me thinking about adding a '900' lumen P7 to the collection. On a plus I can use it if I ever get around to doing a mtb night ride.

How good are these lights. Just recently bought one as I've started to do night rides with a club. On the road you well and truly get noticed. I also run it alongside a smart 1w set to flash.

I have one too, great little light.

Also, if you want a spare battery holder you can get them from maplins (4xAA)

http://www.maplin.co.uk/aa-size-battery-holders-31427

tigger123

I have the remote switch on my MAXXD and it is great. Cars that see the beam dip usually dip their lights, however those idiots who drive around with their fog lights on, on a perfectly clear night get the full 1200 lumens. :twisted:

wyadvd

antfly wrote:

Six pack for the road is just overkill, that's a mountain biking light and it weighs a ton.

I can spend ten minutes in the boys room and loose 490 g

antfly

That's some big poo. You must have blocked a few toilets in your time. :?

wyadvd

hey I'm a cyclist on 4500 calories a day!

Kieran_Burns

left home at 6:20 this morning, pitch blck as you would expect. EVERY car that came towards me dipped their main beam as they approached.

Admittedly there aren't that many at that time of the morning but the Hope Vision 2 and Cateye Singleshot plus gave me all the directed light I needed to see by and made sure people noticed me

I do make sure that the beams are aligned to my side and dipped to the road though, give and take when commuting is my motto.

wyadvd

antfly wrote:

That's some big poo. You must have blocked a few toilets in your time. :?

FYI:

http://www.ams.ac.ir/aim/0034/asl0034.html

bartimaeus

Never has the phrase "too much information" seemed so apt...

antfly

But that was in Iran over 24hrs, it doesn't say what a British poo weighs.

Kieran_Burns

antfly wrote:

That's some big poo. You must have blocked a few toilets in your time. :?

I'd really recommend NOT clicking this link:

http://bbs.scoobynet.com/the-muppet-roo ... a-man.html

No. Really.

Mark Elvin

Bartimaeus wrote:

Never has the phrase "too much information" seemed so apt...

Show me then man who hasn't weighed himself before & immediately after having a "monumetal turf out" & I'll show you a liar.

vorsprung

nation wrote:

Depends on the road, surely.

The point of MTB lights is that their intended use is in situations where the lights you carry are the only available light.

My road bike lights are just fine where they are the only available light. MTB lights are much less directional than road lights. I assume this is because the MTB path or trail is less defined than a road so it is necessary to see things to the side/up/down/all around. However, on a road this is a waste of light. On a proper cyclepath (like the Bristol-Bath mentioned above) a beam like this is a PitA for other riders coming the other way.

Using a P7 MTB light on full power is a bit like driving a 4x4. You might feel safe, able to see, highly visible etc. But everyone thinks you are a cock with your stupid off road system

Yogiboys

Some interesting points made in this thread and for what's it worth I've been riding all winter with a maxxd. All I can say is that its the best money I've ever spent. I would totally recommend it as a road or mtb light. On my commute I've seen a huge difference in the way car drivers react and its great fun lighting up road signs nearly a quarter of a mile away! Just don't use the full 1200 lumens in fog - not a good idea!

nmac_2011

As promised the update.The Exposure six pack has now been fitted & evaluated.

What a revelation.

Light when you need it & the remote switch works a treat.

Less directional than a road specific light?
True but in order to be effective & non blinding the road specific light needs to be set up correctly in the first place.

There is no way that a correctly positioned Exposure series light set to dim lighting level could be construed as blinding.

To quote John Franklin Cyclecraft fourth edition 2007,

" Wide dispersion of light is important for cycle lighting "

Sure some people will set an exposure up to induce retina burning blindness but, those very same people will probably go through life taking no account of the need for others in all areas that they find themselves involved.

In summary an Exposure six pack for pitch black country road use overkill?
Not a chance when used in the correct manner.