Sorry Lights again

nmac_2011

Having had the dubious pleasure of being a passenger in a car traveling between Leyton & Camden over the past two weeks ( I am from out of town ) My observations are as follows.

(A) Not as many cycling Ninjas are present as I was lead to believe.
(B) Flashing lights are very effective against background ambient/vehicle lights
(C) Charge or change your Batterys ( a flashy while dim is not very effective )
(D) While a light on your helmet or rucksack follows advice given to place lights as high as possible, they are not very effective when your head down body position points the lights to the sky.
(E) Supplement point D with lights attached to seatpost and/or chainstays.

Overall most impressed with the survival instincts of most London cyclists.

Gussio

Interesting. This week I've spotted (through the gloom) too many idiots with no lights and black clothing. A crumby rear reflector is not a replacement for lights :roll:

Kieran_Burns

Ironically I got told off in the office for having too bright a rear light

(LD610 with brand new batteries)

UndercoverElephant

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Ironically I got told off in the office for having too bright a rear light

(LD610 with brand new batteries)

To be fair, if you're wearing it around the office...

Mark Elvin

I keep getting shouted at by motorists saying my fromt light is too bright, it's 900 lumens so it's quite bright, but at least I get seen.

Kieran_Burns

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Ironically I got told off in the office for having too bright a rear light

(LD610 with brand new batteries)

To be fair, if you're wearing it around the office...

dress down days are a hoot 8)

tailwindhome

There's a hardy soul who has commuted on my route all through the winter

His set up is a flashing red light low on the chainstay, a flashing blue on the seat post and fixed red light on his helmet.

A very effective set up

I know the 'rule books' will be out on the issue of the blue light. I think it's fair to say I've never confused him with a police car or any other emergency vehicle.

rjsterry

Mark Elvin wrote:

I keep getting shouted at by motorists saying my fromt light is too bright, it's 900 lumens so it's quite bright, but at least I get seen.

Given that 180 lumens (actually less than that as I rarely use it at full power) is plenty for my suburban commute, they might have something of a point if you aren't riding with it dipped. 900 lumens in a focused beam is easily comparable with a main beam headlight, and we all curse motorists who dazzle us by not dipping their lights.

ThatBikeGuy

Why would you ever need a 900 lumen light on the bike anyhow!? Surely your commute isn't *that* dark, maybe try dipping it and pointing towards the ground?

essex-commuter

ThatBikeGuy wrote:

Why would you ever need a 900 lumen light on the bike anyhow!? Surely your commute isn't *that* dark, maybe try dipping it and pointing towards the ground?

40% of my commute is on unlit country lanes, I'm on them at 6am and they are pitch black. I also have a 900 lumen light, I run it on low through the town but I need the 900 to see potholes at 20mph once I get out on the lanes. If I turn it down to mid power I have to slow down to be 100% sure of the road ahead.

I do occassionally get flashed but I do try to partially cover the light with my hand when a car comes towards me, there aren't that many at that time in the morning.

The angle of my light is set to provide the best possible illumination on the road that I need to see, it is also set to the left by a few degrees.

UndercoverElephant

A single car headlamp bulb is roughly 1500 lumens. HID bulbs are over 3000. Most so-called 900 lumen torches struggle to actually produce 500. I like mine, though, on the dark sections of my commute, it really helps a lot.

Mark Elvin

ThatBikeGuy wrote:

Why would you ever need a 900 lumen light on the bike anyhow!? Surely your commute isn't *that* dark, maybe try dipping it and pointing towards the ground?

It is pointed downwards. The Bristol to Bath cycle path is pitch black, I mean no illumination at all in places.

Yes, 900 lumens is a lot, but how many times have I been nearly hit by motorists since fitting it? None.

iPete

Agree with Mark..

Was nearly turned into by a car last night, I think having a Hope Vision 1 on the front alongside my blinker was the difference between the driver stopping or driving through me, has certainly got me thinking about adding a '900' lumen P7 to the collection. On a plus I can use it if I ever get around to doing a mtb night ride.

essex-commuter

My 900 come from an Exposure Toro. It's been discussed on here before but these lights do have the benefit of a flashing mode on top of a dipped light. I'm guessing it's about 200 lumens constant with a 900 lumen flash.

welkman

Most impressed with my magishine, have two 1 watt leds on the rear, one on the seat post and one on the rack. I hope to get a magishine rear light for my birthday as my commute is all on unlit 60mph backroads and can be busy.


W

Headhuunter

I've had peds and motorists moan at me about my Fenix L2D but at least they see me! Another guy here at work uses a Maxx Daddy on the front which must literally destroy driver's retinas...

sketchley

Headhuunter wrote:

I've had peds and motorists moan at me about my Fenix L2D but at least they see me! Another guy here at work uses a Maxx Daddy on the front which must literally destroy driver's retinas...

This is good why?

Headhuunter

nmac_2011 wrote:

Having had the dubious pleasure of being a passenger in a car traveling between Leyton & Camden over the past two weeks ( I am from out of town ) My observations are as follows.

(A) Not as many cycling Ninjas are present as I was lead to believe.
(B) Flashing lights are very effective against background ambient/vehicle lights
(C) Charge or change your Batterys ( a flashy while dim is not very effective )
(D) While a light on your helmet or rucksack follows advice given to place lights as high as possible, they are not very effective when your head down body position points the lights to the sky.
(E) Supplement point D with lights attached to seatpost and/or chainstays.

Overall most impressed with the survival instincts of most London cyclists.

On the subject of ninjas, I think most London commuters are well illuminated. IME, "ninjas" tend to be slightly overweight guys on BSOs riding/wobbling round the corner to meet a friend/go to the shops. I would term them "people on bikes (or BSOs)" rather than "cyclists"

UndercoverElephant

Sketchley wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I've had peds and motorists moan at me about my Fenix L2D but at least they see me! Another guy here at work uses a Maxx Daddy on the front which must literally destroy driver's retinas...

This is good why?

A blinded driver is a happy driver.

Headhuunter

Sketchley wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I've had peds and motorists moan at me about my Fenix L2D but at least they see me! Another guy here at work uses a Maxx Daddy on the front which must literally destroy driver's retinas...

This is good why?

No, I meant it's not good. There's a fine line between being noticed and causing blindness and the Maxx Daddy probably oversteps that a bit! I think they're slightly exaggerating about the Fenix though, it's not THAT bright...

sketchley

@Headhunter

If a ped and motroist moan about your lights dazzling them, do you think they are going out of thier way to do this becuase

1. it did in fact dazzle them or;
2. They don't like you, or cyclists in general.

I doubt it's the 2nd as they are more likely to complain about RLJ, riding on pavement etc, so perhaps you're light is dazzling them and if so this applies

114
You MUST NOT

•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

Mark Elvin

Sketchley wrote:

114
You MUST NOT

•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

Clearly mine are not doing that otherwise the jam sandwhich I was behind last night would have pulled me.

sketchley

Not necessarily, they may of had something more important to do. Point was simply if someone is complaining about it you are in breech of 114, doesn't mean you will get arrested or pulled over for it. Also follows that just because they are not complaining doesn't mean your not dazzling them either.

Headhuunter

Sketchley wrote:

@Headhunter

If a ped and motroist moan about your lights dazzling them, do you think they are going out of thier way to do this becuase

1. it did in fact dazzle them or;
2. They don't like you, or cyclists in general.

I doubt it's the 2nd as they are more likely to complain about RLJ, riding on pavement etc, so perhaps you're light is dazzling them and if so this applies

114
You MUST NOT

•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

To be fair I've only had may be 5 or 6 comments about it over 18 months to 2 years. At least 2 of those were from other cyclists telling me they thought the Fenix was great and asking me what it was and 1 was from a ped who shouted "brilliant light" as I whizzed past. It's not ideal to dazzle but I've cetaily noticed that since using the Fenix I get fewer eejits pulling out on me in the dark etc so I'm afraid as far as I'm concerned if I'm safer I'll stick with it thanks.

I think motorists would be better taking more time to flash other motorists with fog lights on or full beam as they drive round well lit streets. Or even motorists with only 1 functioning headlamp - the other day I moved to the centre of a road to turn right. I waited as ahead of me a single lamp, which I took to be a moped or motorbike was heading towards me. At the last minute I realised it was in fact a car and much wider than I had calculated...

gaz545

Have you tried sitting in a car and have someone wheel your bike past you with the light on to see if it dazzles you?

This should be a test you should take when setting up your lights, the last thing you want is to blind a driver and have him swerve into someone. Espcially if your lights are bright.

I saw someone last night with an exposure flea, and the dumbass had his light pointing up too high, it was just blinding every cyclist he came across!

I rarely see a cyclist in London who i think has very good lighting. My personal preference is 4-5 rear lights and 3 front lights.

ride_whenever

I had a canoeist ask me to turn my light down the other day...

asprilla

gaz545 wrote:

I rarely see a cyclist in London who i think has very good lighting. My personal preference is 4-5 rear lights and 3 front lights.

Bit excessive, IMHO.

I generally have two ftont and two rear; one of each flashing and one of each constant.

Headhuunter

I just have the Fenix on the front and Smart 1 watt on the back. Used to have a Smart ½ watt on the back as well til the rain killed it. More than that and it becomes an utter faff to get them all off and on all the time...

sketchley

No problem, it sounds like they were not moaning at you about your lights which is a good thing! Sorry to put you on the spot.

I agree regarding safer not having cars pulling out on you, but the opposit is true if light is too bright and they cannot see past you they may not notice the cyclists behind you and simply pull out when you have gone by. This is componded as you may have also "destroyed" thier night vision with the bright light and it'll take time to adjust. Trying to find happy medium is not always easy, but I would tend toward more less bright / focused lights rather than one big focus high beam.

Ref mortorist with lights either out or incorrectly on, I do flasht them when driving and when cycling I often stop them and tell them, I've told three van drivers this week about rear or stop lights not working. They all seem to take it really well and thanked me for letting them know.

The fog light or main beam on issue is not help though by people who seem not to know what or where the switches are. For example on M40 on Saturday night a car was running on full main beam when I went by, I flashed fog lights only to watch as they turned thier main lights off only to realise it was to dark then put them back on again along with the full main beam. Clearly they did not know where or what the main beam switch is for.

Headhuunter

Sketchley wrote:

No problem, it sounds like they were not moaning at you about your lights which is a good thing! Sorry to put you on the spot.

I agree regarding safer not having cars pulling out on you, but the opposit is true if light is too bright and they cannot see past you they may not notice the cyclists behind you and simply pull out when you have gone by. This is componded as you may have also "destroyed" thier night vision with the bright light and it'll take time to adjust. Trying to find happy medium is not always easy, but I would tend toward more less bright / focused lights rather than one big focus high beam.

Ref mortorist with lights either out or incorrectly on, I do flasht them when driving and when cycling I often stop them and tell them, I've told three van drivers this week about rear or stop lights not working. They all seem to take it really well and thanked me for letting them know.

The fog light or main beam on issue is not help though by people who seem not to know what or where the switches are. For example on M40 on Saturday night a car was running on full main beam when I went by, I flashed fog lights only to watch as they turned thier main lights off only to realise it was to dark then put them back on again along with the full main beam. Clearly they did not know where or what the main beam switch is for.

I find most motorists reaction to bright lights is to slow down (or even pull over) rather than speed up and weave all over the road, so for me it has the desired effect! As for destroying night vision, the Fenix really isn't THAT bright and most of my riding is on well lit London streets anyway so their eyes won't be on night vision anyway...

rjsterry

Headhuunter wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

@Headhunter

If a ped and motroist moan about your lights dazzling them, do you think they are going out of thier way to do this becuase

1. it did in fact dazzle them or;
2. They don't like you, or cyclists in general.

I doubt it's the 2nd as they are more likely to complain about RLJ, riding on pavement etc, so perhaps you're light is dazzling them and if so this applies

114
You MUST NOT

•use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

To be fair I've only had may be 5 or 6 comments about it over 18 months to 2 years. At least 2 of those were from other cyclists telling me they thought the Fenix was great and asking me what it was and 1 was from a ped who shouted "brilliant light" as I whizzed past. It's not ideal to dazzle but I've cetaily noticed that since using the Fenix I get fewer eejits pulling out on me in the dark etc so I'm afraid as far as I'm concerned if I'm safer I'll stick with it thanks.

I think motorists would be better taking more time to flash other motorists with fog lights on or full beam as they drive round well lit streets. Or even motorists with only 1 functioning headlamp - the other day I moved to the centre of a road to turn right. I waited as ahead of me a single lamp, which I took to be a moped or motorbike was heading towards me. At the last minute I realised it was in fact a car and much wider than I had calculated...

I've just got the Fenix LD20 (the replacement model for the L2D, I think) and while you certainly wouldn't want to stare straight into the full power beam at close distance, I think it's a long way off actually dazzling people - i.e. rendering everything but the light invisible.