Should Andy Gray have been sacked?

EKE_38BPM

He expressed a personal opinion to a friend/colleague off air. Is having an opinion such as his a sackable offense?

Gussio

I for one am not sorry to see him go.

dhope

That got him taken off air for 1 game.

The other two incidents got him sacked.

gtvlusso

If someone finds it offensive and it contravenes office policy - it is a fair disciplinary. Depends on the harshness of the management and the policy.

Ultimately, I would have sacked him as his match analysis is annoying and sh1t....Sky has the worst football commentary and pundits.....I cannot bear to listen to some of the inane drivle that the Sky team come up with. I also think Andy Grey well over analysed matches to the degree of puching fans into losing interest in the entire match.

jzed

EKE_38BPM wrote:

He expressed a personal opinion ?

Think it was asking his female colleague to tuck his mic into his trousers/crotch that may have done it.

jonginge

Got a microphone on then nothing's off air GB fell foul of that quite spectacularly.
Once the story broke I'm not sure they had a choice. As dhope said, he had previous.

Surprised Keys has lasted so long. I remember he did the studio bit in the C4 TdF coverage in the 80's. Not that great...

UndercoverElephant

If it'd happened when Sky weren't in extremely delicate takeover talks, he'd probably have been OK. He chose a bad time to become a public embarrassment for his employers.

soundninjauk

I got the impression (not being an avid follower of football or a Sky subscriber) that that kind of banter was just par for the course, and now they've been caught once, all the other occasions that were caught on tape suddenly come flying out of the woodwork.

And while those kinds of opinions could be put down to an older guy in a male dominated industry, if you're on tv you should absolutely keep them to yourself, and not let them anywhere near a camera or a mic.

So yeah, I think they probably deserve it, although it might seem harsh that it's all coming down on them for just the one famous balls up.

CiB

Bottom line is we've become a nasty po-faced self-righteous bunch of gits in this country, where no-one in the public eye should say anything off-message for fear of being dragged into a supposed scandal like this non-event.

FFS - it's a bit of silly banter between two adults; the apology has been offered and accepted by the lady linesman at the heart of it yet there's still a queue of people desparate to appear on Radio 5 etc, determined to show us how upset they are on someone else's behalf by a few words spoken in jest, in private, between a couple of blokes in a blokey environment and who grew up in an era when it was normal to joke about such things. And joke it was - if anyone imagines that Gray & Keys really do believe that a match official for top line senior professional football doesn't understand offside, they need their skull looking into.

Gaaa. We've reached the point where it's a sacking offence to be a bit blokey. What's going on?

EKE_38BPM

soundninjauk wrote:

I got the impression (not being an avid follower of football or a Sky subscriber) that that kind of banter was just par for the course, and now they've been caught once, all the other occasions that were caught on tape suddenly come flying out of the woodwork.

And while those kinds of opinions could be put down to an older guy in a male dominated industry, if you're on tv you should absolutely keep them to yourself, and not let them anywhere near a camera or a mic.

So yeah, I think they probably deserve it, although it might seem harsh that it's all coming down on them for just the one famous balls up.

This.

And joke it was - if anyone imagines that Gray & Keys really do believe that a match official for top line senior professional football doesn't understand offside, they need their skull looking into.

Having listened to what they said, and more importantly, the way they said it, I don't think they were joking. Maybe my skull does need looking into, but perhaps Gray & Keys were thinking along the lines of positive discrimination "gone mad"?

notsoblue

I just hope people don't suddenly start putting this down to "pollidikulcorrektnussgawmaaaaahd". These guys were caught out saying things that they new the public would react negatively against. It was a stupid mistake. It was just banter, but it was sexist banter. And if they were to keep their jobs, then the media story would be that Sky endorsed their sexist views.

Blame the media specifically, not society for this...

sketchley

If he broke company policy and the company followed their own disaplinary procedures correctly. Then yes if not then no.

tailwindhome

CiB wrote:

Bottom line is we've become a nasty po-faced self-righteous bunch of gits in this country, where no-one in the public eye should say anything off-message for fear of being dragged into a supposed scandal like this non-event.

FFS - it's a bit of silly banter between two adults; the apology has been offered and accepted by the lady linesman at the heart of it yet there's still a queue of people desparate to appear on Radio 5 etc, determined to show us how upset they are on someone else's behalf by a few words spoken in jest, in private, between a couple of blokes in a blokey environment and who grew up in an era when it was normal to joke about such things. And joke it was - if anyone imagines that Gray & Keys really do believe that a match official for top line senior professional football doesn't understand offside, they need their skull looking into.

Gaaa. We've reached the point where it's a sacking offence to be a bit blokey. What's going on?

That's not what he was sacked for.


Gesturing to your crotch and asking a female colleague to tuck in your mike is going to get you sacked every time

Ginjafro

Having heared what they said it is clear to me they were not joking or engaging in a little banter. They would never have dared express such rubbish live on air because any dim wit would know they are inviting trouble.

CiB

TailWindHome wrote:

CiB wrote:

Bottom line is we've become a nasty po-faced self-righteous bunch of gits in this country, where no-one in the public eye should say anything off-message for fear of being dragged into a supposed scandal like this non-event.

FFS - it's a bit of silly banter between two adults; the apology has been offered and accepted by the lady linesman at the heart of it yet there's still a queue of people desparate to appear on Radio 5 etc, determined to show us how upset they are on someone else's behalf by a few words spoken in jest, in private, between a couple of blokes in a blokey environment and who grew up in an era when it was normal to joke about such things. And joke it was - if anyone imagines that Gray & Keys really do believe that a match official for top line senior professional football doesn't understand offside, they need their skull looking into.

Gaaa. We've reached the point where it's a sacking offence to be a bit blokey. What's going on?

That's not what he was sacked for.


Gesturing to your crotch and asking a female colleague to tuck in your mike is going to get you sacked every time

Really? Doesn't it depend on the nature of the realtionship between the two adults? Is that really a sacking offence anyway? If it really is that bad, it took a long while for anyone to be offended by it.

I know the offside joke wan't the cause, it was the catalyst.

@EKE - "Having listened to what they said, and more importantly, the way they said it, I don't think they were joking. Maybe my skull does need looking into, but perhaps Gray & Keys were thinking along the lines of positive discrimination "gone mad"?"

Course it was a joke. You don't get to officiate at anything above Sunday League without having some inkling of the rules, and offside really is the simplest thing in the world. It's why 10,000 people in unison can shout "offside" - because it's as simple as checking two conditions being true, in its simplest form.

simonaspinall

And the lines woman's call was correct.

Poetic irony is if they are replaced with the presenters of loose women

dhope

CiB wrote:

It's why 10,000 *men* in unison can shout "offside" - because it's as simple as checking two conditions being true, in its simplest form.

FTFY

Sorry, I'm not helping.

spen666

If you act in such a way as to tarnish your company's reputation you can be sacked.

Sky need to keep good relations with the FA

Sewinman

Suing the News of the World over phone hacking probably did not help his cause. I think it is a bit harsh - but he is an odious ****, so am not shedding any tears.

I do find it a little ironic coming from Sky Sports though - they clearly have a policy that the only women they employ are stunning ex-bikini models to read the auto-cue. It is hardly a beacon of enlightened equality.

EKE_38BPM

The rules are quite simple:
Don't write anything down (especially in an email) that you would not be prepared to enter the public domain.
Don't say anything that you would not be prepared to enter the public domain if you are mic-ed up.
Only discuss crimes with people that you were commiting that crime with.

Covert surveillance devices (such as my £8 helmet cam. or just about any mobile phone) make these rules harder to adhere to, though.

When I discuss dodginess, I do it in a naked sauna!

soundninjauk

Just read

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/26/andy-gray-richard-keys-sixist

Obviously it's The Guardian, so it's somewhat on the righteous side, but I find it quite interesting (working in media and post-production) that all these comments made it out in the first place, given that they weren't actually made on air. That means that they pissed someone in the crew off enough that they made the effort to find the tape/file, take it home, and then upload it to YouTube, which I'd be pretty sure is in itself a sackable offence at Sky.

It makes it sound as if these two were dicks to everyone they worked with, and eventually someone snapped. In which case, they deserve every bit of it.

suzyb

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Having listened to what they said, and more importantly, the way they said it, I don't think they were joking.

I agree.

That said I think the fact the lady linesman got the offside decision completely correct does a lot more to show how wrong the opinion was than Sky firing him will do.

Wallace1492

Maybe they were happy to get rid of him...

Never liked him, but it seems a harsh punishment for a bit of "banter", but maybe there is far more than meets the eye. If he has been hard done by, he should appeal. However, I don't think he will be on welfare anytime soon.

georgezippybungle

I find it strange that there's no comment who released the footage.
That in itself should be a sacking/diciplinary offence.
I work in the broadcast industry and wouldn't dream of doing such a thing no matter what my personal feelings were, despite having had access to some potentially controversial stuff.
it's hardly appropriate to damage somebody's career just because they made a comment.
That is more disgusting than any comment that could be made - think about it!
I could have released similar recorded material or photos of pissed up celebs at do's I occasionally go to, but choose not to as it's a deceitful thing to do no matter how much the News of the World offered.
I would't wipe my shoes on such people.

suzyb

Wallace1492 wrote:

Maybe they were happy to get rid of him...

Never liked him, but it seems a harsh punishment for a bit of "banter", but maybe there is far more than meets the eye. If he has been hard done by, he should appeal. However, I don't think he will be on welfare anytime soon.

Was it on here someone suggested Sky might use this as an excuse to get rid of him.

rhext

I draw parallels, for those of us old enough to remember, with Gerald Ratner. For those of us who don't remember, he ran an extremely successful high street jewelry chain until he gave a rather ill-advised speech containing the following:

"We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's totally crap"

Should he have lost his livelihood for a single ill-thought out comment? Probably not! But the sheen suddenly vanished from his stock and the chain went down very quickly regardless of what 'should' have happened.

Andy Gray was one of the public faces of a large organisation in an industry where image is everything. He allowed his personal views to contaminate his public face to such an extent that I doubt that Sky had any option but to sack him. He may well have been wrongly dismissed: but I'm sure that if that is the case Sky will pay the compensation and consider it money well spent!

d87heaven

Whats going to happen about the 5000 ish football fans singing 'get your tits out' to the female st johns crew running across the pitch after someone collapsed? They are probably the same people clamouring for any gray to be sacked.

wgwarburton

Wallace1492 wrote:

Maybe they were happy to get rid of him...

Never liked him, but it seems a harsh punishment for a bit of "banter", but maybe there is far more than meets the eye. If he has been hard done by, he should appeal. However, I don't think he will be on welfare anytime soon.

I come to this cold- I had no idea who he was before this and neither watch football nor have a Sky subscription.

From what I saw of the conversation that was released it certainly didn't look like "banter" to me- there was no irony or hint of edgy humour. The comments were offensive and suggest a deep-seated sexism, if I were his employer I'd be embarrassed by them.
It seems to me that what he said, the way he said it, was unacceptable, so it couldn't be allowed to slide as that would be seen to be accepting of it!

Cheers,
W.

tailwindhome

CiB wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

CiB wrote:

That's not what he was sacked for.


Gesturing to your crotch and asking a female colleague to tuck in your mike is going to get you sacked every time

Really? Doesn't it depend on the nature of the realtionship between the two adults? Is that really a sacking offence anyway? If it really is that bad, it took a long while for anyone to be offended by it.
I know the offside joke wan't the cause, it was the catalyst.

Are you on a wind up here?

You can't be serious?

rhext

d87heaven wrote:

Whats going to happen about the 5000 ish football fans singing 'get your tits out' to the female st johns crew running across the pitch after someone collapsed? They are probably the same people clamouring for any gray to be sacked.

I doubt very much that they are the same people....

SpaceBadger

Given that Ron Atkinson was sacked for racist comments, I think Sky also had to take into account that not to sack Andy Gray may be interpreted as them saying racism is not acceptable but sexism is.

I don't think they were joking, they weren't laughing or saying it with a light, jokey tone. I'm not the type of burd who gets offended easily, and I was not offended by this because I think all it demonstrates is the stupidity and small mindedness of these guys.

I have actually met both Andy Gray and Richard Keys a few times through my work at my local Premier League (for now!) club and I have to say that they are both arrogant asses who do 'walk around like they own the place' - a comment made this week by a member of the Sky crew. This is in contrast to the attitude of Jeff Stelling who is friendly and chatty with everyone. I know who I think is a better presenter and who I'd rather see on TV.