RANT - RLJ's

Pufftmw

OK, call me sanctimonious if you want but I stop for red lights - that's what they're there for. I might sometimes go through as it turns red if had been on top of them but generally speaking I STOP.

Coming down Tooley Street this evening and just after it merges into Jamaica Road, there is a pedestrian crossing with a RED LIGHT. I happened to have just overtaken about 6 or 7 commuters when the light went orange, then red. There was no way I would have been marginally ok to have gone through on the red, so I STOPPED. I was able to slow down from 22/23 mph to 0 safely and under control. The fastest of the other commuters would have been going 17/18 mph, so you would expect them to be able to stop in time, wouldn't you? As I slowed, I pulled over to the left as well, ready to move off when the lights changed and so as not to be sitting in the road.

Guess what happened next? :roll:

Screech, slither, "whoa!", "argh!" as 3 or 4 commuters tried desparately to stop behind me. 2 managed to make it to the right and jumped the lights, 1 to the left and the last one bounced off my shoulder and just managed to stay upright before stopping 20 feet up the road :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Next ensued a shouting match during which I kept saying "Stop at Red Lights" and the silly commuter first saying I had cut across her, that I had stopped too quickly and that I was going too fast :roll: :roll:

The last one got me as however fast I had been going, I was able to stop safely and under control at a Red Traffic Light :roll: :roll:

She was bloody lucky not to have been hurt or more to the point, all the RLJs at that crossing were lucky not to have mown down and injured the pedestrian that walked across the road.

So what happened? After I swore at her, I got on my bike and went & overtook all the other RLJs. What is the point of jumping a red light, when just waiting a few seconds and you will be as far up the road as you were before? :roll: I, for one, would be very happy to see a strong crackdown on these idiots :evil:

</rant off>

John Stevenson

Cool story bro.

straas

Testeranimal1 ?

EDIT:

Sorry can see how this would be confusing to many - content;
http://www.youtube.com/user/TesterAnima ... PB6IHrL0Qw

nich

It's always a concern, stopping for lights 'n stuff, and just hoping noone whacks into the back of you. I try as much as possible to slow down well in advanced.

I think people seem to get excited on Tooley St, it's downhill going home and they probably get a bit high on the speed

JamieW

Testeranimal1 would have put it on YouTube and prob still be in tears about the situation

tailwindhome

I for one welcome the opportunity to get a final answer to the RLJ debate and would commend the OP for starting this thread.

It's only the 3rd RLJ thread in a week but I really do feel that this could be the one.

EKE_38BPM

From now on I will refer all RLJ threads to my post in the "RLJing for safety" thread:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

...~95% I stop at red lights (probably way more than that) and don't think about it, but, on occasion, I will RLJ (tree falling in the woods...) .
Sometimes it is safer to RLJ than it is to 'obey the law', but if I ever RLJ it is the last option (safety-wise) on my mind and any (non brain-dead) traffic cop should be able to see why I did it...

To make this post thread specific, I stop if I can stop safely (bar tree falling in the woods scenario) and if I can't stop then I was probably going too fast and/or not paying adequate attention.

I know its no good being legally right and in hospital or worse, but the OP was in the right and all of the RLJers were in the wrong. They should have stopped and definitely not be surprised when the OP stopped.

The amber phase of the lights is to tell road users, ALL ROAD USERS, to stop unless you have already crossed the stop line or are so close to the stop line that to pull up might cause an accident. Red obviously means stop at the stop line.
If, as in the situation described by the OP, the light was red, not amber, everyone should have stopped because the amber phase was the warning that the lights were going to change.

I've saw a report of an accident where a HGV expected the car in front to jump a red light, but the car stopped safely at the stop line and the HGV ploughed into the back of it. I'd hate to be in the cycling equivalent of that situation, even if the plougher was another bike.

greg66_tri_v2.0

John Stevenson wrote:

Cool story bro.

I think you forgot this:



Though in fairness, I quite enjoyed that story.

daviesee

See. you would have been safer RLJing :twisted:



Some people will probably not get the sledgehammer sarcasm in there so no, RLJing is not safe.

itboffin

+1 on the red light stopping however today was not a good day for me as a London commuter, cycled to the station here in Wiltshire, no traffic or lights, great scenery even saw a barn owl, pure pleasure.

Boris bike from Paddington whereupon every FUCKTARD on the road drove like they''d just taken a hit on a crack pipe :evil:

Not 1 but 6 buses crossed to my side of the road forcing me onto the pavement WTF!!! then 4 motorbikes sped pasted me in the bus lane on the Euston road with only inches to spare :twisted:

But best of all every cyclist apart from me ran every RL this morning, I took great pleasure in scalping several on my BB.

all that on just Monday and yet i'm still calm ....

sigh

Drysuitdiver

if scalping is seeing a "roadie" with all the lycra and hi viz gear belt through a red light, and the observer (me - on a MTB with knobbly tyres) catching up and passing him, beating him to the next set of lights, which he no doubt RLJed aggain ,without pushing myself hard then i have scalped a RLJer this morning.

the phrase all the gear no idea springs to mind

W1

Another story where an accident was caused by other road users assuming a cyclist would jump a red light. That assumption wouldn't exist if cyclists actually stopped for red lights.

So, to all you regular RLJers out there, who cause this presumption - this is your fault.

Safer my a*se.

Kieran_Burns

I will put this story down to lack of attention and due care when using the road, not RLJ per se.

Either way, the people behind PTMW were dickheads of the first order.

roger_merriman

nothing as impressive as the OP but have had a few stopped and heard squealing bakes and oh you stopped?

oddly at the moment noticed that the pre 7am lot tend not RLJ and on the whole be much more with it than the 9-5ers.

Wallace1492

Pufftmw wrote:

What is the point of jumping a red light, when just waiting a few seconds and you will be as far up the road as you were before?

No, no, no. If you jump a red light you will be far further up the road. (Note, I do not jump red lights) In this case the poster was far faster than the other cyclists and overtook them, this had nothing to do with jumping or not.

If red light jumping Pufftmw raced non RLJing Pufftmw then the RLJing version would get there first... simples.

However RLJing is wrong.... as is mounting the pavement to get by lights/junctions, especially when not wearing a helmet and having no lights, wearing jeans, and listening to Ipod, while answering phone and sending a text.

Gussio

This morning while waiting at the temporary traffic lights on the NKR I watched around a dozen bikes either mount the pavement or squeeze next to the curb against the oncoming traffic. Was not a pretty sight. What is the rush to get get to work?

notsoblue

You went from 23mph to 0 within seconds after having just overtaken a group of nodders and then you exhibit surprise at them all crashing into you?



I mean, its not unreasonable to be miffed by people behaving like that but come on... Was this your first commute in London?

:P

roger_merriman

Wallace1492 wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

What is the point of jumping a red light, when just waiting a few seconds and you will be as far up the road as you were before?

No, no, no. If you jump a red light you will be far further up the road. (Note, I do not jump red lights) In this case the poster was far faster than the other cyclists and overtook them, this had nothing to do with jumping or not.

If red light jumping Pufftmw raced non RLJing Pufftmw then the RLJing version would get there first... simples.

However RLJing is wrong.... as is mounting the pavement to get by lights/junctions, especially when not wearing a helmet and having no lights, wearing jeans, and listening to Ipod, while answering phone and sending a text.

though most don't get far up the road, the cross roads I pass though most RLJ barely get to the bus stop just the the other side before I pass them.

daviesee

notsoblue wrote:

You went from 23mph to 0 within seconds after having just overtaken a group of nodders and then you exhibit surprise at them all crashing into you?

I mean, its not unreasonable to be miffed by people behaving like that but come on... Was this your first commute in London?

:P

You do know that most bikes have brakes or fixed wheels? :roll:
Red = Stop.

bigmat

Bizarrely, I almost rear ended someone this morning in similar circumstances, there were so many buses around that I overlooked the fact that we were approaching a junction - oops! In my defence, I wasn't planning to jump a red light, I just hadn't realised it was there as my focus was on the traffic ahead and getting past the various buses safely.

Re the OP, if a car overtook me, pulled in front of me and then slammed on its brakes almost causing me to crash, I'd think the driver was a pilock, regardless of whether a red light was involved. Stop being so self-righteous!

As for the "I always catch them up" line, cheers Wallace for stating the bleeding obvious. I never catch them up. 30 seconds in London traffic is a long time, especially if one RLJ gets you through the next junction before the lights change as frequently happens. It regularly spoils any attempts at SCR .

roger_merriman

daviesee wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

You went from 23mph to 0 within seconds after having just overtaken a group of nodders and then you exhibit surprise at them all crashing into you?

I mean, its not unreasonable to be miffed by people behaving like that but come on... Was this your first commute in London?

:P

You do know that most bikes have brakes or fixed wheels? :roll:
Red = Stop.

rereading it the lights where orange as he passed them, now i'd not be overtaking at speed when I should be stopping,

mind you i'd also be stopping any how.

shm_uk

TailWindHome wrote:

I for one welcome the opportunity to get a final answer to the RLJ debate and would commend the OP for starting this thread.

It's only the 3rd RLJ thread in a week but I really do feel that this could be the one.

No, the RLJing thing will never go away as human beings are generally too self-righteous and self-justifying to adhere to a simple "Red = Stop"

Let the pointless circle of arguing about it continue... for ever and ever...

notsoblue

daviesee wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

You went from 23mph to 0 within seconds after having just overtaken a group of nodders and then you exhibit surprise at them all crashing into you?

I mean, its not unreasonable to be miffed by people behaving like that but come on... Was this your first commute in London?

:P

You do know that most bikes have brakes or fixed wheels? :roll:
Red = Stop.

Mat said it best:

BigMat wrote:

Re the OP, if a car overtook me, pulled in front of me and then slammed on its brakes almost causing me to crash, 'd think the driver was a pilock, regardless of whether a red light was involved. Stop being so self-righteous!

Being in the right is small comfort when other road users inevitably cause you problems. The OP is lucky it was just a group of nodders that ran into him after his crash stop rather than a delivery van or a taxi.

Pufftmw

roger merriman wrote:

rereading it the lights where orange as he passed them, now i'd not be overtaking at speed when I should be stopping,

mind you i'd also be stopping any how.

Just for accuracy, I passed them & then they turned orange. Sorry if not clear. Even at the speed I was doing there was no chance of me going through them on orange or even a "just" red.






Purpose of the thread was a rant against the stupidity of RLJs after one particularly thick example of the breed ran into my shoulder at speed having obviously had no intention of stopping or been able to stop in time when I did. Sorry if I started the umpteenth debate thread...

hatbeard

Personally I think bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road until they're fitted with brake lights to prevent this sort of thing

joking but actually brake lights would be quite handy things to have on bikes assuming everyone had them which is a bit unlikely as some idiots don't even have normal lights.

wgwarburton

hatbeard wrote:

Personally I think bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road until they're fitted with brake lights to prevent this sort of thing

joking but actually brake lights would be quite handy things to have on bikes assuming everyone had them which is a bit unlikely as some idiots don't even have normal lights.

I think that's a red herring! (Yes, I know it wasn't serious).

The issue the OP commented on was that he was hit from behind by an idiot who assumed he would break the law. That assumption may well be reinforced by the prevalence of RLJing, an activity defended as not compromising safety by some forum participants...

Now you can argue that the OP should have been aware that idiots like this are not unusual and that he should therefore have taken more care to ensure that his cavalier observance of the law didn't result in an accident but that doesn't really address the issue- it seems to me his irritation is more than warranted and provides a pertinent example of why RLJing is inadvisable.

Cheers,
W.

greg66_tri_v2.0

notsoblue wrote:

Mat said it best:

BigMat wrote:

Re the OP, if a car overtook me, pulled in front of me and then slammed on its brakes almost causing me to crash, 'd think the driver was a pilock, regardless of whether a red light was involved. Stop being so self-righteous!

Being in the right is small comfort when other road users inevitably cause you problems. The OP is lucky it was just a group of nodders that ran into him after his crash stop rather than a delivery van or a taxi.

Hold up.

The OP was going faster than the nodders, was closer to the lights than the nodders, and still managed to stop for the lights.

But the nodders didn't. Even though they were further away and going slower.

Hmm. I wonder how hard they tried to stop (which is kind of the point of the story, innit?).

To transpose, if a car overtook me, then braked for a red light, and I was unable to brake sufficiently for the same red light without riding into him, I think I'd start questioning whether my brakes and/or eyes and/or brain were working properly.

Wallace1492

roger merriman wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

What is the point of jumping a red light, when just waiting a few seconds and you will be as far up the road as you were before?

No, no, no. If you jump a red light you will be far further up the road. (Note, I do not jump red lights) In this case the poster was far faster than the other cyclists and overtook them, this had nothing to do with jumping or not.

If red light jumping Pufftmw raced non RLJing Pufftmw then the RLJing version would get there first... simples.

However RLJing is wrong.... as is mounting the pavement to get by lights/junctions, especially when not wearing a helmet and having no lights, wearing jeans, and listening to Ipod, while answering phone and sending a text.

though most don't get far up the road, the cross roads I pass though most RLJ barely get to the bus stop just the the other side before I pass them.

They are slow, you are fast, exactly the point I made. RLJing Roger would be but a mere speck in the distance.... It does get you there faster, but it is wrong and unacceptable.

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Mat said it best:

BigMat wrote:

Re the OP, if a car overtook me, pulled in front of me and then slammed on its brakes almost causing me to crash, 'd think the driver was a pilock, regardless of whether a red light was involved. Stop being so self-righteous!

Being in the right is small comfort when other road users inevitably cause you problems. The OP is lucky it was just a group of nodders that ran into him after his crash stop rather than a delivery van or a taxi.

Hold up.

The OP was going faster than the nodders, was closer to the lights than the nodders, and still managed to stop for the lights.

But the nodders didn't. Even though they were further away and going slower.

Hmm. I wonder how hard they tried to stop (which is kind of the point of the story, innit?).

To transpose, if a car overtook me, then braked for a red light, and I was unable to brake sufficiently for the same red light without riding into him, I think I'd start questioning whether my brakes and/or eyes and/or brain were working properly.

This. 'Jamming your brakes on' - or more accurately: stopping safely for a red light - does not make you a pillock. The OP made it clear that he overtook some slower moving cyclists, then braked in a controlled manner for an amber light; this is NOT cutting in, then grabbing a handful and skidding to a stop. How is it being self-righteous to be hacked off with idiots riding into you? Having been similarly barged and on one occasion had my rear derailleur bent by some halfwit who was in his own little world. I very much sympathise.

gaz545

This is why i never pull to the left when i stop.

A. to avoid idiots like you came across today.

b. when you set off, you are at your most vulnerable. by being in the centre of your lane you have control over it and you stop idiots from behind you passing too close.

notsoblue

Greg66 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Mat said it best:

BigMat wrote:

Re the OP, if a car overtook me, pulled in front of me and then slammed on its brakes almost causing me to crash, 'd think the driver was a pilock, regardless of whether a red light was involved. Stop being so self-righteous!

Being in the right is small comfort when other road users inevitably cause you problems. The OP is lucky it was just a group of nodders that ran into him after his crash stop rather than a delivery van or a taxi.

Hold up.

The OP was going faster than the nodders, was closer to the lights than the nodders, and still managed to stop for the lights.

But the nodders didn't. Even though they were further away and going slower.

Hmm. I wonder how hard they tried to stop (which is kind of the point of the story, innit?).

To transpose, if a car overtook me, then braked for a red light, and I was unable to brake sufficiently for the same red light without riding into him, I think I'd start questioning whether my brakes and/or eyes and/or brain were working properly.

I'm not arguing who was in the right here, I just find it odd that the OP was surprised at the nodders' behaviour. It seems to me that there was a very short space of time between the OP overtaking the group of nodders, the light changing, the OP pulling on the anchors and then being hit from behind. So should he really have been overtaking the group that close to a set of traffic lights? And was it wise to break so hard right in front of a group of nodders, whether they were going to RLJ or not?

My assumption about the timescale of events could be wrong of course, but if there was enough time for the nodders to brake for the lights, and they managed to crash into him then the OP encountered a group of particularly special needs nodders. And if that was the case, then he has my sympathies.