Marmite - a bitter debate

2

Comments

  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    iainf72 wrote:
    Cavendish comes closest I'd think.

    I think mentioning Mark Cavendish is just jealously. The guy is enormously
    talented, believes in himself and knows he can win as believes he is the best which he has proved. Like all driven people he doesn't carry passengers. Perhaps some the incidents you drag up could be attributed to his relative youth. He will mature and no doubt start to win more and more. Then just like with LA the snipers, bitter and twisted people will try to pull him down.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Internet forums haven't been around nearly as long as cycling has - and have become popular more and more in the Armstrong era - which saw him as one of the biggest names in all of cycling for many years.

    So it makes sense that more people have an opinion on him (and that he causes so much division) as he's still fresh in the memory.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    dilemna wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Cavendish comes closest I'd think.

    I think mentioning Mark Cavendish is just jealously. The guy is enormously
    talented, believes in himself and knows he can win as believes he is the best which he has proved. Like all driven people he doesn't carry passengers. Perhaps some the incidents you drag up could be attributed to his relative youth. He will mature and no doubt start to win more and more.

    I don't think Iain was criticising Cav himself. He was, correctly, pointing out that there are plenty of people who don't like him and plenty of fans (I'm the latter). Not many people are ambivalent towards him.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    Contador. To paraphrase Tom Baker in Blackadder "opinion is divided on the subject, all the other contributors to Bike Radar say he's a guilty cheat but French Fighter says he is a True Champion who only races to win and so vastly superior to every mortal cyclist that he would never need to cheat" :wink:
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    RichN95 wrote:

    I don't think Iain was criticising Cav himself. He was, correctly, pointing out that there are plenty of people who don't like him and plenty of fans (I'm the latter). Not many people are ambivalent towards him.

    He really is the only one I can think of who really does work people up and you get dramatic splits.

    Perhaps testament to how bland most of the peloton are.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Sol Campbell.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sol Campbell.

    Only in North London.

    In the North West - Gary Neville.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    Cadel Evans is a bit marmitey. However, I think more people love him since he won the worlds and became a bit of a have a go hero than before when he seemed to be a whining wheelsucker
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    RichN95 wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sol Campbell.

    Only in North London.

    In the North West - Gary Neville.

    It sounds as if he may be on his way to the lane. (Shudder.)

    Back to cycling - Armstrong will always be my number 1 pantomime villain in the sport. I'm sure a well planned teary sofa 'confession' on Oprah to coincide with an 'all-proceeds-to-charity' book will fix that though.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Whilst a PR person would certainly like to drag him on to the Oprah show, Greg Lemond once said (at the end of a conference for sports drug testing), quite emphatically, that LA would never, ever admit to anything. It's simply not in his nature.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    Tusher wrote:
    Whilst a PR person would certainly like to drag him on to the Oprah show, Greg Lemond once said (at the end of a conference for sports drug testing), quite emphatically, that LA would never, ever admit to anything. It's simply not in his nature.

    He'd do it just to pee Lemond off. He'd wanna be the best anti-drug reformist ever!

    Or, Novitsky has got nothing concrete to pin on him, and he'll become super-emboldened - GodzilLA style, and grow to 300 foot, and destroy Paris and other Yurp-ean cities with his 'Look' stare.


    Place your bets... now.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    Tusher wrote:
    Whilst a PR person would certainly like to drag him on to the Oprah show, Greg Lemond once said (at the end of a conference for sports drug testing), quite emphatically, that LA would never, ever admit to anything. It's simply not in his nature.

    I don't suppose you would if you hadn't done something you were accused of doing. Or would you?
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Whilst a PR person would certainly like to drag him on to the Oprah show, Greg Lemond once said (at the end of a conference for sports drug testing), quite emphatically, that LA would never, ever admit to anything. It's simply not in his nature.

    He'd do it just to pee Lemond off. He'd wanna be the best anti-drug reformist ever!

    Or, Novitsky has got nothing concrete to pin on him, and he'll become super-emboldened - GodzilLA style, and grow to 300 foot, and destroy Paris and other Yurp-ean cities with his 'Look' stare.


    Place your bets... now.

    Have you been on the sherbert ???

    :lol:
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    dilemna wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    Whilst a PR person would certainly like to drag him on to the Oprah show, Greg Lemond once said (at the end of a conference for sports drug testing), quite emphatically, that LA would never, ever admit to anything. It's simply not in his nature.

    He'd do it just to pee Lemond off. He'd wanna be the best anti-drug reformist ever!

    Or, Novitsky has got nothing concrete to pin on him, and he'll become super-emboldened - GodzilLA style, and grow to 300 foot, and destroy Paris and other Yurp-ean cities with his 'Look' stare.


    Place your bets... now.

    Have you been on the sherbert ???

    :lol:

    The only thing I'm on is my bike!

    Edit: Actually I'm on the sofa.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    Sol Campbell.

    We know a song about him don't we children ;)
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    May I ask (in all seriousness) who Sol Campbell is?
    And why we should know him?
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.







    I had genuinely never heard of him.
    What's the song about then?
  • eiger30
    eiger30 Posts: 39
    Tusher wrote:

    I had genuinely never heard of him.
    What's the song about then?

    His lifestyle...
  • Stewie Griffin
    Stewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    Tusher wrote:
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.







    I had genuinely never heard of him.
    What's the song about then?

    Give it 5 mins and check Wiki again. I'm going to go & put it on there now. What's it about? He lied to us & hurt our feelings so we sing a song to him in which we suggest amongst other things that he should kill himself. :lol:
  • eiger30
    eiger30 Posts: 39
    Stewie Griffin wrote:
    Tusher wrote:
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.
    I must check Wikipedia before I ask these questions.







    I had genuinely never heard of him.
    What's the song about then?

    Give it 5 mins and check Wiki again. I'm going to go & put it on there now. What's it about? He lied to us & hurt our feelings so we sing a song to him in which we suggest amongst other things that he should kill himself. :lol:


    Not the one I was thinking about.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    eiger30 wrote:
    Tusher wrote:

    I had genuinely never heard of him.
    What's the song about then?

    His lifestyle...

    Really it's about the worst slurs that Tottenham fans could think of.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Puzzled yet curious..........
  • Stewie Griffin
    Stewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    Sol Sol wherever you maybe?

    We don't give a feck if you're swinging from a tree you Judas three car shunt.......

    I read that as do what Judas did after he betrayed Jebus.
  • SpaceJunk
    SpaceJunk Posts: 1,157
    dilemna wrote:
    Douglas Jardine Captain who had a hatred of Australia who enlisted Harold Larwood and Bill Voce fast bowlers to deliver body line bowling to the Australians in particular Sir Donald Bradman who was their best batsman in the 1932-33 tour of Australia.

    Bodyline bowling caused outage as being unsporting and intended to cause a batsman harm. A diplomatic incident ensued and Anglo-Australian relations were extremely strained. Bodyline bowling was later banned by the MCC. Larwood emigrated to Oz in the fifties to escape continuing persecution in England for his bodyline bowling which he always maintained he was following orders.

    The irony with Larwood, is that after he moved here to Australia, the locals slowly started to change their view of him.

    By the later years of his life, there was very little animosity towards him - I think a lot of people recognized his contribution to the Ashes legacy. We certainly warmed to him.

    The most unfortunate thing about Boblyline is that Larwood's skills as a face bowler were massively underrated. He was a class quickie.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Tusher wrote:
    Puzzled yet curious..........

    Sol Campbell left Spurs on a free transfer and signed for their rivals Arsenal.

    In revenge, and with untrue rumours that Campbell was gay, they sang:

    Sol Sol wherever you may be
    Not long now til lunacy
    And we won't give a f***
    When you're hanging from a tree
    Judas c*** with HIV

    You wish you hadn't asked now didn't you

    They also sing:

    Cav, Cav wherever you may be
    We cheer you on to victory
    On the hills you're last
    But on the flat you're fast
    Getting wins for HTC

    (They don't really sing that. I just made it up. Wasn't that good? I surprised myself)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    S'okay, s'okay- I found a link to A Song Which Is Odious and Ghastly and Terrible.
    No wonder 4 football supporters were fined for singing it.

    And I have asked the Rev Tusher, who informs me that he had heard of Sol Campbell and that this Sol is a gay English footballer who's no longer any good.


    I am retiring to my little wooden bed with my cat, perchance to dream of a Manxman.
    Football is sooo very ghastly.
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Actually, Richard, your last stanza's not that bad.


    A poet and you didn't no it. (Boom)


    Right, up early, long past my bed-time. Sweet dreams all,
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    SpaceJunk wrote:
    The irony with Larwood, is that after he moved here to Australia, the locals slowly started to change their view of him.

    Surely Jardine was always the villian? Larwood was 'just following orders'

    Plus Larwood was a working class boy of mining stock while Jardine was Winchester and Oxford.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • cajun_cyclist
    cajun_cyclist Posts: 493
    I like ol' Bartali, like Jack Lalanne, how about that, both were born in 1914, Bartali died in 2000; Bartali actually won a Tour de France before World War II so you figure he would have had very good chances to win another, Yellow Jersey in 1938 and 1948. For those who want a quick rundown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gino_Bartali .

    I'm not sure of the whole imagery of Coppi and Coppi is made legendary like Merckx and as far as riding the Tour itself, maybe is one of the best ever in the Tour or Tours where he was victorious.

    But I know Bartali's story some, from the South of Italy, so he too, was a bit on the religious end, from all I know, chances are Bartali was a clean rider and you don't have many champions that can claim that even going back as far as when we are talking about. Even this fellow Bobet admitted to having tried doping though I don't know the extent. By the way, Bartali grilled Coppi about doping, big stories there but Bartali from the wiki article chainsmoked, I never knew that and so with cycling, even when it appears someone doesn't dope, i'm not sure that totally precludes them from taking something that might aid them, not that smoking would, just saying.

    There is a book on that 1948 or '49 Giro which was highly contested by the two, expensive now to find a copy but I read the one out of our library.

    Back around 2004, I could get peeved about Lance but it doesn't bother me much anymore and I don't even find it that important except as watching as a sort of past time but when I see the 'Crusaders' out there, I can relate. I mean undoubtedly these other champions, most including the legendary Merckx still got caught so are a bit suspect as well. It's gotten to where it doesn't seem fair to bust one champion and then others get grilled on the topic.
  • tremayne
    tremayne Posts: 378
    Cajun - know what you mean about getting to saturation point and ultimately saying 'whats the point'. Doubts exist, so really why grill the man? Sometimes I get to feel a bit that way but then I think that until we (the governing bodies) decide to give up, then we still need to fight this thing and do everything possible to track down and punish cheats, however hard that may be. For some of these guys, the media and general circus will be about as bad as some of the fairly lenient punishments that exist.

    As a comparison - my wife went crazy the other day when she heard a politician was going to be locked up. Upset at the taxpayer expense and just didn't see it as worthwhile. We had a bit of an argument and my point was; what bigger deterrent for an upper class politician can there possibly be than doing a few weeks in pokey? Money isn't a big problem for many of them and all are used to bad publicity. A suspended sentence doesn't really mean bugger all and they would just proclaim their innocence anyway. A couple of weeks of actual jail time is something else altogether and now 'they' know it could really happen to them, I see that as a game changer...

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