why reduce strength training as you get closer to the racing
Comments
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Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
You do 70-90 arm curls per minute?meanredspider wrote:So what is happening when my leg muscles "fail"? The forces are low but with very high reps (10kg dumbell arm curls - my arm eventually "fails" in fatigue)
I don't think I ever drop below 70rpm, BTW, and target 90
No - I was talking about my climbing on a bike - in case you think I was truly mashing the pedals - but I still feel like I'd like more "strength" (endurance at load) in my legs to sustain the power.Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
To generate more power for relatively brief periods by engaging more musculature.meanredspider wrote:t;]And why do riders "stand"?
Yes - so as the cadence in a stand drops, this additional power comes from increased pedal force - correct?ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
meanredspider wrote:No - I was talking about my climbing on a bike - in case you think I was truly mashing the pedals - but I still feel like I'd like more "strength" (endurance at load) in my legs to sustain the power.
What you need, despite what you feel, is more fitness. I bet you've got more leg strength than Michael Rasmussen, but he'd have precisely no trouble climbing alongside you at the same cadence.
To prove it to yourself, from a standing (well rested) start, ride a hill you often struggle up at your normal cadence and effort, for 10 seconds only? Really easy? So you clearly have sufficient strength. What you feel is your muscles getting tired. after doing that for a couple of minutes.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:meanredspider wrote:No - I was talking about my climbing on a bike - in case you think I was truly mashing the pedals - but I still feel like I'd like more "strength" (endurance at load) in my legs to sustain the power.
What you need, despite what you feel, is more fitness. I bet you've got more leg strength than Michael Rasmussen, but he'd have precisely no trouble climbing alongside you at the same cadence.
To prove it to yourself, from a standing (well rested) start, ride a hill you often struggle up at your normal cadence and effort, for 10 seconds only? Really easy? So you clearly have sufficient strength. What you feel is your muscles getting tired. after doing that for a couple of minutes.
But that's what I'm trying to get to. I can arm curl a 15kg dumbell - so I have the strength - I can only do it (say) 20 times though. For the dumbell, I don't think I'm limited by aerobic "fitness" per se but muscle endurance. What I'm looking to understand is how I can improve muscle endurance. I'm guessing it's just by doing more, longer and harder climbing. But that feels different from aerobic "fitness" (ie not coughing up a lung at the top of the hill)ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
meanredspider wrote:P_Tucker wrote:meanredspider wrote:No - I was talking about my climbing on a bike - in case you think I was truly mashing the pedals - but I still feel like I'd like more "strength" (endurance at load) in my legs to sustain the power.
What you need, despite what you feel, is more fitness. I bet you've got more leg strength than Michael Rasmussen, but he'd have precisely no trouble climbing alongside you at the same cadence.
To prove it to yourself, from a standing (well rested) start, ride a hill you often struggle up at your normal cadence and effort, for 10 seconds only? Really easy? So you clearly have sufficient strength. What you feel is your muscles getting tired. after doing that for a couple of minutes.
But that's what I'm trying to get to. I can arm curl a 15kg dumbell - so I have the strength - I can only do it (say) 20 times though. For the dumbell, I don't think I'm limited by aerobic "fitness" per se but muscle endurance. What I'm looking to understand is how I can improve muscle endurance. I'm guessing it's just by doing m.ore, longer and harder climbing. But that feels different from aerobic "fitness" (ie not coughing up a lung at the top of the hill)
Okay, I understand your question, and its one that I've often wondered to. My googling has proved inconclusive.
Whether improving "muscle endurance", assuming it's possible, has any bearing on your cycling performance is a different question entirely and certainly not one I know the answer to. Obv you'll get the usual "I did this and it worked for me" responses shortly.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:Okay, I understand your question, and its one that I've often wondered to. My googling has proved inconclusive.
Whether improving "muscle endurance", assuming it's possible, has any bearing on your cycling performance is a different question entirely and certainly not one I know the answer to. Obv you'll get the usual "I did this and it worked for me" responses shortly.
Yup - in the meantime I'll just keep riding. My commute (below) kinda relies on hill climbing and muscle endurance (especially on the return - net climb - journey). I've covered 300 miles in the last two weeks after a break dealing with my son's illness. The "fitness" will return (is returning) but I'd like to know what I can do to accelerate it.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
meanredspider wrote:P_Tucker wrote:Okay, I understand your question, and its one that I've often wondered to. My googling has proved inconclusive.
Whether improving "muscle endurance", assuming it's possible, has any bearing on your cycling performance is a different question entirely and certainly not one I know the answer to. Obv you'll get the usual "I did this and it worked for me" responses shortly.
Yup - in the meantime I'll just keep riding. My commute (below) kinda relies on hill climbing and muscle endurance (especially on the return - net climb - journey). I've covered 300 miles in the last two weeks after a break dealing with my son's illness. The "fitness" will return (is returning) but I'd like to know what I can do to accelerate it.
The answer is of course 2x20 at sweetspot. Raising your FTP will make everything easier.0 -
P_Tucker wrote:The answer is of course 2x20 at sweetspot. Raising your FTP will make everything easier.
http://tpks.ws/clIe0 -
P_Tucker wrote:The answer is of course 2x20 at sweetspot. Raising your FTP will make everything easier.
Would you mind saving me some time hunting by pointing me in the right direction for the details? ThxROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
So you are lifting at ~ 60+% of 1RM?meanredspider wrote:But that's what I'm trying to get to. I can arm curl a 15kg dumbell - so I have the strength - I can only do it (say) 20 times though. For the dumbell, I don't think I'm limited by aerobic "fitness" per se but muscle endurance.
When cycling (even uphill), the forces are much lower than say a free squat 1RM. For me (before having lower leg amputation), the forces I generated when climbing at threshold were < 10% of my 1RM. Others might be at a higher ratio.
Indeed, since losing the leg, I have been able to increase my threshold power to weight ratio, as well as set all time high race power output, despite losing significant strength.
Any effort lasting more than a minute will be primarily driven by aerobic metabolism.meanredspider wrote:What I'm looking to understand is how I can improve muscle endurance. I'm guessing it's just by doing more, longer and harder climbing. But that feels different from aerobic "fitness" (ie not coughing up a lung at the top of the hill)0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
So you are lifting at ~ 60+% of 1RM?meanredspider wrote:But that's what I'm trying to get to. I can arm curl a 15kg dumbell - so I have the strength - I can only do it (say) 20 times though. For the dumbell, I don't think I'm limited by aerobic "fitness" per se but muscle endurance.
When cycling (even uphill), the forces are much lower than say a free squat 1RM. For me (before having lower leg amputation), the forces I generated when climbing at threshold were < 10% of my 1RM. Others might be at a higher ratio.
Indeed, since losing the leg, I have been able to increase my threshold power to weight ratio, as well as set all time high race power output, despite losing significant strength.
Any effort lasting more than a minute will be primarily driven by aerobic metabolism.meanredspider wrote:What I'm looking to understand is how I can improve muscle endurance. I'm guessing it's just by doing more, longer and harder climbing. But that feels different from aerobic "fitness" (ie not coughing up a lung at the top of the hill)
Don't know my 1RM - I used to when I was using a gym but that was several years ago. I don't have a power meter on my bike either so I'm flying blind in that respect.
Understand that anything over a minute is aerobic but I'm still trying to get to the bottom of muscle fatigue.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
AndyRubio wrote:But does continuing strength training actually hinder performance in a 10?
Levin 2009 found strength training reduced performance in a 1000m TT which is raced at 600-900 watts. A 16km TT will be raced at 200-450 watts. 30-50% of your peak power is definitely not a strength exercise.0 -
meanredspider wrote:Understand that anything over a minute is aerobic but I'm still trying to get to the bottom of muscle fatigue.
The physiological basis for fatigue is multifactorial.
The simple rationale is using the FITT acronym.
F requency: more often you repeat something the greater the fatigue
I ntensity: the harder you work the greater the fatigue
T ime: the longer you ride at a given intensity the greater the fatigue
T ype: the trained you are for a given movement the lower the fatigue0
