Loosing Muscle Power

MatthewT1501

Hi Guys,

First posting here, and I'm after some thoughts on my fitness. ( I appreciate you don't know me, but just bare with me.)
I've been cycling almost every day since November 1st, and have a lost a fair bit of weight (which is good) and I've got my 10 mile (real 10 miles. Not os some living room "Nerf" turbo trainer) time from a wheezing 1hr 10 mins down to 40 mins.. (c'mon it's the begineer forum)... Though I'm really starting to suffer with my power and now motivation. When I started out I could barely move my own weight up hill, but towards the middle of this month I was seriously pushing some big gears up hills. Now though I feel like I've just lost all momentum. I have to knock the gears right down and up the cadence, rather than push the big gears, I thought I was getting used too. It's actually really demotivating, as it constantly feels like I'm having to peddle up hill, even down hill and on the flat, my thigh muscles just have no staying power to push the bigger gears anymore...

I came off due to a monumental pothole last week, I have severe road rash, and I'm still limping about the office/house. I feel wimpy if I'm not out riding, so still climb on the cannondale for a 10 mile ride when I feel I can ( I was pushing about 100 miles a week, but now I'm down to just 20, as it's a real effort to even get the bike out the door. Is riding before I can walk properly bad for me? or should I let the road rash go before I climb back on the bike?
Any ideas whats causing the loss in power is is it all in my head?

Cheers in advance guys.

Matt.

danowat

MatthewT1501 wrote:

I've been cycling almost every day since November 1st......snip

Sounds like you need a bit of a rest mate.

Hows your nutrition ,hydration and health in general?

SBezza

The injury will have knocked you back a bit. As above have you had any days off the bike, rest is the most important part of training, that is when the adaptions happen.

With regards to using the biggest gears up hills, there is no need. You might be spinning a lower gear faster, and hence putting out the same power.

MatthewT1501

Chaps,

Thanks for the quick reply.
Not many rest days at all, only when the snow has been too deep, and then when I came off last week for a few days.

TBH My healt pre November has been woeful, I was overweight, and really need to trim out, so I expected to be crap at first and just powered through it.

I drink about 2 litres of water a day whether or not I go out on ride, and well I guess I just eat "normally". I have a meal with Rice almost every lunchtime (I work in a hospital, it's about the only edible thing there is.. ;-) ) I have 2 slices of wholemeal toast and strawberry jam on every day for Breakie, I don't drink beer or spirits, and shy away from fast food... I always have my tea after my ride, as I tend to find that if I eat before hand, I just have the urge to hurl it up again about 3 miles in, so I wait until after I get back, cleaned the bike down etc.
Essentially a complete contrast to last year!!! I'm now 29, and thought I'd be at my "prime" not getting worse.

I used to like hammering the big gears, as it makes me feel like I'm doing a proper thigh burning workout... knocking it down a few rings does allow me to spin faster, but does this mean I'm not climbing properly?

Thanks.

Matt

mattsaw

Recovery time is just as important as exercise. Going our every day won't be doing you any favours. I commute into work, and by Friday I'm noticeable shattered, it can be a real effort getting on to the bike for the Friday morning in. By Monday after a couple of days rest I'm full of energy again.

Also, if you're not commuting try staggering your ride distances

Day 1 - 5 miles
Day 2 - 7 miles
Day 3 10 miles
Day 4 - Rest day

Build-up the milage as you feel comfortable.

meanredspider

I can only echo the above with my experiences. I was doing 100+ miles a week commuting and hit a plateau. then I had to have a week away from it and was scared my fitness would suffer. The exact opposite happened - came back to the bike as if my legs were supercharged - started actually extending my ride home to seek out bigger hills (believe me, the hills around here are BIG). Maybe take a week off - let the leg heal - then come back to it with avengence. I don't find the weekend enough to recover from a hard full 5-day week (160 hilly miles) and Monday morning is one of the hardest. Tuesday is often better.

Butterd2

SBezza wrote:

With regards to using the biggest gears up hills, there is no need. You might be spinning a lower gear faster, and hence putting out the same power.

+1 to that. As I got fitter my cadence increased and I span lower gears but went faster and more importantly longer.

unixnerd

Rest days are important, it may suck but they're a vital part of training. Your muscles need to heal every now and then to be efficient.

It's not just what you eat but when you eat it. You should have some carbs about an hour before a big effort and every hour during. Bananas are your friend!

Don't drive too big a gear, you'll end up hurting your back - I did. You should be cycling at least 60rpm, putting the pedals round once a second. Try and work up to 70-80rpm cadence, spinning does make life easier and often changing down a gear will make you faster! Just use a lower gear and the pedalling speed will eventually rise.

Are you using clip-in pedals? Might be time to think about getting SPDs. They'll help your pedalling style. Also worth looking at your bike position now that you're no longer a beginner. Maybe time to raise the saddle a bit for example.

My wife has lost a lot of weight over the last few months and feels guilty if she can't go to the gym every day. You have to remind yourself how much you've already come on and give yourself a pat on the back - not a hard time :-)

reacher

resting needs to be put into perspective , how long ago was it that people were working six an a half days a week , toiling in fields , in factorys , digging coal , 10 hours of intense manual work , walking to and from work for miles in all weathers or cycling miles back and forth to get to work and then putting in 10 and 12 hour days ,
now all of a sudden some one does 40 mins exercise an they have to have a rest day !

Monty Dog

Doing quality miles and a day-off recovery will have more impact on performance than two days of just riding around. Guys who race at top level often can get away with as little as 10 hours per week - but it will be quality and structured. Getting up hills in the biggest gear possible isn't the objective unless doing very specific strength training - for beginners you want to be able to train for efficiency and muscle adaptation - it's reckoned it can take many years to fully develop a cyclist's physiology.

lucan

reacher wrote:

resting needs to be put into perspective , how long ago was it that people were working six an a half days a week , toiling in fields , in factorys , digging coal , 10 hours of intense manual work , walking to and from work for miles in all weathers or cycling miles back and forth to get to work and then putting in 10 and 12 hour days ,
now all of a sudden some one does 40 mins exercise an they have to have a rest day !

And life expectancy is going up, or down?

jibberjim

reacher wrote:

resting needs to be put into perspective

I do agree that a lot of people rest more than necessary. If you look at coaching manuals from different eras over the last 100 years you'll see the amount of work people are recommended to do has actually gone up every decade (on average different fads of course) You probably don't need as much rest as you think.

But that's not to say rest days are a bad idea, particularly as you build up to the load - you can't go from nothing to a lot without having something in between the body needs to adapt to the new levels of stress each time.

Obviously eventually you could get to the stage where you can comfortably ride 4 hours hard every day, but that doesn't mean anyone could go out and start doing that tomorrow.

MatthewT1501

Thanks guys, thats great.
Plan is then is to wait for the road rash to heal up a bit to the point were it actually stops hurting. I did come off going down hill in the dark, and not sure how fast it was but it took me a while to find the bike (ended up in a ditch)
Then I will start again, but with a slightly more structured approach to training, not just leap on the bike and go mad again. Otherwise I'm going to be back in the same situation.

Thanks once again for all the help and advice guys, nice to know it might not be me just becoming unfit.

Matthew.

reacher

in real terms a lot of people have no concept of how hard they could actually train or how quickly the body will adapt to training because they train in a comfort zone and stay in it ,
go in any gym and see how many people are in a world of pain on a bike , i'm sure their are cyclists who train extremely hard i'm talking about the majority here who train and cant lose weight or reduce their high blood pressure , simply they train wrong ,
i'v said it before and i will repeat it , their is a huge differance between the top guys training on chemicals and a guy who trains to get fit , basing training and resting on what the top athletes do bears no relation to an amateur who trains for fitness .

reacher

Lucan wrote:

reacher wrote:

resting needs to be put into perspective , how long ago was it that people were working six an a half days a week , toiling in fields , in factorys , digging coal , 10 hours of intense manual work , walking to and from work for miles in all weathers or cycling miles back and forth to get to work and then putting in 10 and 12 hour days ,
now all of a sudden some one does 40 mins exercise an they have to have a rest day !

And life expectancy is going up, or down?

for people who sit in care homes with custard dribbling down their chin staring out a window all day the life expectancy is quite long i agree , lol

TomBombadil

Hi,

I agree with most about rest and have gradually improved and can produce some good times lately.

As mentioned before the main key for me is motivation. If doing hard miles and little rest keeps you motivated stay with it - as many mentioned, we're not pro's and frankly the more time and effort on the bike the stronger you will get.

However, rest is essential and lack of it can be de-motivational. It is hard to judge effort - one year I used the Suunto T3 heart rate monitor - this gives you an effort score based on time and exertion from heart rate. It then advises on rest times etc. I feel it's a good start for beginners as it helps you get a feel for perceived effort and required rest/relaxation. I don't use it now as I have a good feel and listen to my body. If my body say's ride, I ride. If I feel knackered I don't ride. In the winter I do Turbo 3-4 times a week and it keeps my fitness and power up with no substantial power/fitness losses.

Although it takes a couple of weeks to get my lungs back when I really get back on the roads - then I'll be doing 10 hours a week over 3 or 4 hard rides. This year I managed the Vaternrundan in in Sweden (186 miles) in 9:50 total time and this was a solo effort with no group work as I was an early rider. In previous years I have also done the multi-stage Tour of Ireland Cycling Challenge and done OK coming about half way up the list.

I feel this approach has been giving me steadfast improvement over the last few years with improved TT results. Last year I managed almost 2 minutes of the club 10.

But sometimes if I am really knackered and/or other things come up, I take two weeks off - nobody is going to lose fitness in two weeks.....I used to worry and think that I'd stop riding... but the body calls and before I know it I'm out again enjoying the roads and the ride.

Don't get to stressed about not riding, just remember how good it can feel to be on the bike and be strong - you'l soon want to ride again.

Tom

danowat

in regards to "rest" ,we are talking about an overweight (possibly sedatary) individual, who works in a hospital, that has been riding hard everyday since November 1st :roll: who is now struggling, and as such motivation is waning.

Lets cut all the macho "who needs rest" posturing, if the guy rests he will perform better for it, and as such motivation will return, win win.

We aren't talking elite cyclists training for racing, we are talking about a normal guy who is trying to lose some weight and enjoy his cycling FFS

meanredspider

danowat wrote:

in regards to "rest" ,we are talking about an overweight (possibly sedatary) individual, who works in a hospital, that has been riding hard everyday since November 1st :roll: who is now struggling, and as such motivation is waning.

Lets cut all the macho "who needs rest" posturing, if the guy rests he will perform better for it, and as such motivation will return, win win.

We aren't talking elite cyclists training for racing, we are talking about a normal guy who is trying to lose some weight and enjoy his cycling FFS

+1 spot-on. The guy needs a rest and let his body recover. I was stunned what a week of rest did for me.

My whole plan for this year is to commute daily (120(4), 160(5) & 90(3) miles (days) in weeks 1, 2 & 3) then rest whilst my son has chemo for 5 days then back into that cycle.

p.ilchard

Loosing (sic) muscle power ??????????????

Losing it please.

BikingBecky

Hi Matt,

Sounds like you're not recovering adequately after your workouts. Note how you mentally feel as well. The mental signs of 'lack of motivation' are usually coupled with how tired your physical body is.

Above all else, remember this formula:

Gains in fitness (e.g: more power) = Training + Adequate recovery.

I wrote an in depth article about this on my site just the other day:

http://easycycling.com/?p=2269 Optimising Cycling Training: Recover Adequately

Take a few days off, perhaps a good week and start back again slowly. I think this might do the trick of getting you back on your bike with renewed enthusiasm and the fitness will gradually return.

Be patient with yourself!

Cheers

Rebecca

reacher

nothing macho about training every day at all , the human body was built and designed to work every day , it does not require rest days , only sleep time to recover , a rest day is simply something that is required when the training reaches a leval past what sleep will repair , rest days for this leval of activity is something that you lot have dreamed up as an excuse for the fact that you are not training properly and there for your body is breaking down and requireing a stop to all activity for a period , if you trained correctly the body would adapt within a week to this leval of activity , we are not talking high end training here , thats like saying i walked to the shops today an now i need a week off .
put simply their is no reason what so ever that a person cant do 30 minutes or more activity per day every day with out a rest day , the rest is in your heads ,

P_Tucker

I think I need a rest day after reading quite possibly the world'd longest sentence.

BikingBecky

re: reacher: ..."nothing macho about training every day at all , the human body was built and designed to work every day, it does not require rest days.."

This post is not only completely irresponsible, it's outright rubbish. From an experienced rider's point of view it actually shows your lack of experience and understanding in this critical area of cycle training.

What you also fail to point out is cyclists' individualism towards the rate of recovery. Everyone has a different 'rate' of recovery. Some like you can ride every day, others recover at a slower rate. The key point is to 'recover' adequately. There's no big advantage to recovering quicker or slower - everyone adapts differently.

Take my example, I only rode 3-4 days a week for many years, yet I became a top international rider. If I'd gone out and ridden every single day as you advise, I can assure you I would have wound up exhausted and overtrained after only 4 weeks...

It disturbs me also to read that you think 'recovery' is in the head and basically an excuse - this couldn't be further from the truth. Recovery is one of THE MOST important (and underestimated) aspects of training to improve both your cycling fitness and more importantly - your cycling longevity.

I rest my case.

morstar

meanredspider wrote:

I can only echo the above with my experiences. I was doing 100+ miles a week commuting and hit a plateau. then I had to have a week away from it and was scared my fitness would suffer. The exact opposite happened - came back to the bike as if my legs were supercharged - started actually extending my ride home to seek out bigger hills (believe me, the hills around here are BIG). Maybe take a week off - let the leg heal - then come back to it with avengence. I don't find the weekend enough to recover from a hard full 5-day week (160 hilly miles) and Monday morning is one of the hardest. Tuesday is often better.

This.

No longer commuting by bike but this was exactly my experience when doing 100 miles per week on commute.

jibberjim

BikingBecky wrote:

reI rest my case.

But you didn't actually provide a case, you provided anecdotes, there's nothing in your post which explains how someone could measure recovery or why it's impossible for someone to ride every day etc. You didn't actually even attempt to refute the point that humans are quite capable of exercising every day.

BikingBecky

jibberjim

You are right, I used the wrong wording. I simply meant, I'd 'finished my points of view', not my 'case' as such.

No, I've not gone into specifics on how to measure recovery, because Reacher's post was disputing recovering in general, for which deserves a more general answer about why recovery is important and is a significant part of a training programme.

I've written two in depth articles pitched at beginners on my website which address how to find your 'rate of recovery', for which one of them I had initially linked in a previous post on this forum thread.

I hope this clarify things, if not email me from my site and I'll be happy to talk more scientifically with you on this issue.

Rebecca

Team Banana Spokesman

I can ride everyday at my CTL. More I go above it the harder it is to stick at it evryday.

My coach and friend told me this.

Trainings like writing text. Have a 'block' or pararaph for every shortterm goal or fitness boost. Break into sentences (weeks) to make easier steps for yourself. Make sure sentences are not too long or you cant finish them in one breath. Breathhe in-bettween the sentences so the next sentence is manageable (one day off before next week). At the end of hte paragraph, have slightly longer rest so you are ready for the next paragraph so the reader (your body) can take in all the information (adapt).

What you have done could be said to be lots of long sentences in one long paragraph.

meanredspider

Team Banana Spokesman wrote:

I can ride everyday at my CTL. More I go above it the harder it is to stick at it evryday.

My coach and friend told me this.

Trainings like writing text. Have a 'block' or pararaph for every shortterm goal or fitness boost. Break into sentences (weeks) to make easier steps for yourself. Make sure sentences are not too long or you cant finish them in one breath. Breathhe in-bettween the sentences so the next sentence is manageable (one day off before next week). At the end of hte paragraph, have slightly longer rest so you are ready for the next paragraph so the reader (your body) can take in all the information (adapt).

What you have done could be said to be lots of long sentences in one long paragraph.

reacher was obviously told the same thing - but can write much longer sentences than anyone and doesn't feel the need to rest.

P_Tucker

Of course, reacher is absolutely correct. It wouldn't stretch the average human in good health to do 30 mins of exercise at an easy endurance pace every single day, which is near as dammit what the OP is doing it would seem.

What most people seem to be doing is confusing "commuting on a bike" which in this instance shouldn't require recovery days with "training like a mentalist for bike races" which does.

meanredspider

P_Tucker wrote:

Of course, reacher is absolutely correct. It wouldn't stretch the average human in good health to do 30 mins of exercise at an easy endurance pace every single day, which is near as dammit what the OP is doing it would seem.

What most people seem to be doing is confusing "commuting on a bike" which in this instance shouldn't require recovery days with "training like a mentalist for bike races" which does.

Yup - but what you guys are forgetting is the start point of the individual. As he honestly admitted, it was taking him 1:10 to do 10 miles. From that baseline, he's moved a long way and, as much as you guys might not like it, it will have taken a toll on his body to do that as he must have been pretty badly out of shape. One could argue it's even harder on his body than the "mentalist" training for a race

Sure, once he has developed some degree of fitness, the 10 miles will be a breeze. Though even that will be more than the "average human in good health" does a week.

How was it for you when you started cycling from a fat sedentry lifestyle? How did you go about it..........?

P_Tucker

meanredspider wrote:

How was it for you when you started cycling from a fat sedentry lifestyle? How did you go about it..........?

Dunno, I've never been fat or sedentary.