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When to start doing 2*20s for power development?

fidbodfidbod Posts: 317
would appreciate some advice on my training plan to hit the dragon ride at best condition.

Currently I am doing the following

Monday - rest
Tuesday - 1 hr turbo a lvl3 HR intensity
Wednesday - Sufferfest of some variety
Thursday - 1 hr turbo TT intensity
Friday - rest
Saturday - On the road, currently doing 4.5 hrs but plan to keep extending this in distance and amount of climbing
Sunday - Club run, 40 miles

My plan is to keep the current turbo sessions in place until the end of February then switch out the lvl 3 session for some 2*20s to increase power output, following this training schedule through march and april.

So will doing the 2*20s for 8 sessions (once a week march and april) bring a material benefit or do you think I need to introduce them earlier or do more of them in april may?

Thoughts much appreciated.

Stuart

Posts

  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Surely you are already doing a session as hard as the 2x20 intervals with the hour at TT effort.

    Anyhow you can start 2x20 intervals when ever you like.
  • a_n_ta_n_t Posts: 2,011
    I started doinf them again at the beginning of December, got it ill, stopped and started again yesterday actually!
    Manchester wheelers

    PB's
    10m 20:21 2014
    25m 53:18 20:13
    50m 1:57:12 2013
    100m Yeah right.
  • fidbodfidbod Posts: 317
    SBezza wrote:
    Surely you are already doing a session as hard as the 2x20 intervals with the hour at TT effort.

    Could be that I am doing the TT effort wrong or mis understanding 2*20s. when I get to the end of the TT effort I fall off my bike figuratively speaking but I am working at a pretty steady effort through the hour.

    my understanding of 2*20s is at the end of each 20 minute interval you should be in a similar physical state to the end of the TT and you have 10 minutes to recover before doing the same again. So the intensity of the 20 minute interval will be higher than 20 minutes of TT pace.

    Stuart

    p.s. is that a San Fairy Ann uniform your are wearing in your picture?
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    2x20's needn't be that punishing. I find them hard, but manageable based on riding at a power of usually 94-100% FTP (94-100% of the power I can sustain for an hour on a good day, well rested, etc.)
    More problems but still living....
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    fidbod wrote:
    p.s. is that a San Fairy Ann uniform your are wearing in your picture?

    Yes it is, I am a member of the San Fairy Ann CC

    As mentioned above 2x20 mins are normally done at around 95% to 105% of FTP. FTP can assumed to be the same as 1 hour all out TT effort.
  • fidbodfidbod Posts: 317
    amaferanga wrote:
    2x20's needn't be that punishing. I find them hard, but manageable based on riding at a power of usually 94-100% FTP (94-100% of the power I can sustain for an hour on a good day, well rested, etc.)

    cheers Amaferanga and Sbezza....

    Is there any point in doing 2*20s over a 1hr TT effort then? clearly your total volume of work during the hour is less for 2*20s than a 1 hr TT. do you get faster adaptation by doing the intervals?

    Or to put it another way, how would you change the weekday turbo sessions in march and april with the aim of training for increased power output?

    Stuart
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    I suppose it depends on the quality of the TT effort you are doing. I doubt I could do a full hour at FTP on a turbo, so doing 2x20 mins is a better way of doing them with quality.

    It also is probably better for recovery from the session.

    Do you have any way of measuring your effort on the turbo, Power, HR, Speed etc.
  • fidbodfidbod Posts: 317
    Good point on the quality issue.

    I am using a HR monitor to measure effort. the max HR I have managed to achieve on the bike is 179 bpm so for the 1 hr TT effort, I try and get up to a hr of 155 and then hold reasonably steady in a band between 155 and 165.

    appreciate the HR measurement is fairly clumsy compared to a power meter, but one of those is not in the budget as yet.
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    For a 1 hour full on TT effort, you would expect your HR to reach near it's max near the end of the session. If you keep the HR steady the power will be dropping off, even though it feels constant. If you keep the power constant HR will rise over time.

    If you are certain your turbo resistance stays constant, fit a rear wheel speed sensor and try and keep the same speed for the duration of the effort, you will then see what your HR does.
  • fidbodfidbod Posts: 317
    good advice thnx.

    I have got the real wheel sensor so i will have a look at whats been going on with speed
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Problem is, your speed may appear to be staying the same as the turbo warms up but in reality you may be losing power...
  • ZingzangZingzang Posts: 196
    fidbod wrote:
    Good point on the quality issue.

    I am using a HR monitor to measure effort. the max HR I have managed to achieve on the bike is 179 bpm so for the 1 hr TT effort, I try and get up to a hr of 155 and then hold reasonably steady in a band between 155 and 165.

    appreciate the HR measurement is fairly clumsy compared to a power meter, but one of those is not in the budget as yet.

    My max heart rate is in the region of 182-184.
    During intervals of 20 minutes my HR for first five mins will typically be 160-170 and for the rest of the interval between 170-180 bpm, generally rising steadily as the interval progresses.

    I had thought riding at this percentage of max HR was about right for 20 minute intervals. I would consider holding a steady 165bpm for 20 mins to be a hard and useful block of work, but not intense enough training for 10's and 25's. Am I right on this one or can I afford to do my 20 minute interval work at a lower intensity than I have outlined above and still make adequate gains in performance for 10's and 25's?
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    2x20s are fine for 10s and 25s.
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I normally do 2x20's with 5 (ish) mins of rest aiming at 95-100% of ftp. Now if I was targeting the Dragon ride (I'm not) but have access to the main climbs (I do) then I think I'd do 2x20's at greater than 100% (you can always squeeze a bit more out on the ling hills) and then have a bit longer rests on the downhill. This sort of 2x20 might be a bit more specific to the demands of the Dragon ride.

    Just thought I'd throw that in as I have the privilege of doing my 2x20's on the rhigos, no more boring turbo sessions for me, summer's started. :wink:
  • i have never done a sufferfest set so they may cover what i am about to say but, rather than doing an hour at tt pace or even 20min efforts i would do shorter but harder sets they give more benefit and aren't quite so much 'junk hours' also they are easier to do mentally
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