Silly Commuter Coffee

twist83

menthel wrote:

twist83 wrote:

menthel wrote:

twist83 wrote:

I would not call it Snobbery at all. It just tastes as it should is all. But I appreciate some people do not like black coffee. The trouble is they base there views on black instant and/or poorly brewed coffee from somewhere.

My piece of advice is to visit one of the Specialist coffee shops and try a properly brewed Aeropress or drip black and then make a decision.

Even Steve from Hasbean states this and he is not a snob just someone who loves coffee and really knows his stuff. I have come from drinking Instant with milk and sugar to where I am now. I am certainly not a snob I just like things to taste how they should is all

No offence or harm intended though

As coffee is a personal preference then there is no "taste how they should", its about tasting how you want it to! It is governed by device, coffee, grind, water and the lack/use of milk and sugar. Just saying that because an "expert" tells you how they think it should be, it doesn't necessarily mean they are right on something subjective like coffee.

I do get what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Think of it a little like putting Lemonade with Wine or beer. Some people prefer it HOWEVER the beer maker or Wine maker has a product and it is crafted to taste a specific way. Altering from this changes what they 'expect' it to taste like.

Same goes with Coffee beans. A bean is roasted to a certain profile to bring out certain flavours/tastes for a specific brewing method. Espresso through a pump machine, filter/drip etc.

Tasting notes on the coffee are based in its pure form i.e Drip coffee as it is, Espresso as it is.

Like I said I never said it was wrong. I am just firmly in the camp that milk with most coffees made through Aeropress etc completely changes the coffee to the point it isnt really what it was meant to taste like. Milk with most I have tried completely change the balance of the cup to the point it is dissapointing.

My point is it does not NEED milk in order to taste fantastic if brewed properly and using freshly ground coffee. But the phrase crap in and crap out applys. Ground coffee will lose a vast amount of its flavour within 10-20 mins of being ground. So if you for instance use coffee that was ground 1-2 days + then you are not going to be getting what you should out of it. Which again leads onto people finding it bland or bitter and dumping Milk/Sugar in it.

Again, falling for the coffee snob diatribes. Coffee doesn't suddenly taste terrible after 24-48 hours of being ground. Kept carefully it stays fresh for as long as a 250g packet lasts me (not more than a week usually) and tastes good from the first cup to the last cup. If you took it to its extreme you would end up flying over green beans for each cup, roasting and grinding them on the spot before drinking!

Again, it all depends on personal taste. I do drink coffee black and it does taste good but in the mornings I like it with milk. The coffee with milk made from an aeropress kicks the ars* of instant, the cafe at work or any of the big chains. I also like a shandy when cycling and I am not going to cry over the hurt feelings of the brewer of the bitter I have polluted with lemonade!

So, have views on how you like it but an aeropress is a perfectly legitimate way to make coffee and put milk in it. They are also great for offices as they are small, clean and quick to make a good cup. I know quite a few that have gone over to aeropress now from cafietieres and drips because of all this.

Each to their own choice and experience.

I am sorry but you are completely wrong there, there is a reason why 99% of decent coffee shops grind and dose on demand. They don't create more work for themselves for no reason. It is nothing to do with Coffee Snobbery. Just facts. Also every home user who has a grinder will grind fresh and not smash a batch out and store it for a week.

As soon as 15 minutes of grinding coffee will start to lose its Aromatics pretty rapidly. If this wasnt the case they would just grind an entire hopper full and leave it.. No one does not in the UK, US, NZ, Aus etc. This isnt done for snobbery it is done to get the best possible cup.

While week old ground coffee might taste ok to you, I would eat my hat if you made an Aeropress with freshly ground and week old coffee and didnt find the taste substantially different. That is the reason a lot of people will drag a hand grinder into work.

Regarding the bean comment coffee beans are usually best at least a few days after roasting anyway after being allowed to rest So no I would not!!

twist83

You cannot make me rage menthel it is Friday morning

Be gone you coffee diluting swine!

menthel

twist83 wrote:

menthel wrote:

twist83 wrote:

menthel wrote:

twist83 wrote:

I would not call it Snobbery at all. It just tastes as it should is all. But I appreciate some people do not like black coffee. The trouble is they base there views on black instant and/or poorly brewed coffee from somewhere.

My piece of advice is to visit one of the Specialist coffee shops and try a properly brewed Aeropress or drip black and then make a decision.

Even Steve from Hasbean states this and he is not a snob just someone who loves coffee and really knows his stuff. I have come from drinking Instant with milk and sugar to where I am now. I am certainly not a snob I just like things to taste how they should is all

No offence or harm intended though

As coffee is a personal preference then there is no "taste how they should", its about tasting how you want it to! It is governed by device, coffee, grind, water and the lack/use of milk and sugar. Just saying that because an "expert" tells you how they think it should be, it doesn't necessarily mean they are right on something subjective like coffee.

I do get what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Think of it a little like putting Lemonade with Wine or beer. Some people prefer it HOWEVER the beer maker or Wine maker has a product and it is crafted to taste a specific way. Altering from this changes what they 'expect' it to taste like.

Same goes with Coffee beans. A bean is roasted to a certain profile to bring out certain flavours/tastes for a specific brewing method. Espresso through a pump machine, filter/drip etc.

Tasting notes on the coffee are based in its pure form i.e Drip coffee as it is, Espresso as it is.

Like I said I never said it was wrong. I am just firmly in the camp that milk with most coffees made through Aeropress etc completely changes the coffee to the point it isnt really what it was meant to taste like. Milk with most I have tried completely change the balance of the cup to the point it is dissapointing.

My point is it does not NEED milk in order to taste fantastic if brewed properly and using freshly ground coffee. But the phrase crap in and crap out applys. Ground coffee will lose a vast amount of its flavour within 10-20 mins of being ground. So if you for instance use coffee that was ground 1-2 days + then you are not going to be getting what you should out of it. Which again leads onto people finding it bland or bitter and dumping Milk/Sugar in it.

Again, falling for the coffee snob diatribes. Coffee doesn't suddenly taste terrible after 24-48 hours of being ground. Kept carefully it stays fresh for as long as a 250g packet lasts me (not more than a week usually) and tastes good from the first cup to the last cup. If you took it to its extreme you would end up flying over green beans for each cup, roasting and grinding them on the spot before drinking!

Again, it all depends on personal taste. I do drink coffee black and it does taste good but in the mornings I like it with milk. The coffee with milk made from an aeropress kicks the ars* of instant, the cafe at work or any of the big chains. I also like a shandy when cycling and I am not going to cry over the hurt feelings of the brewer of the bitter I have polluted with lemonade!

So, have views on how you like it but an aeropress is a perfectly legitimate way to make coffee and put milk in it. They are also great for offices as they are small, clean and quick to make a good cup. I know quite a few that have gone over to aeropress now from cafietieres and drips because of all this.

Each to their own choice and experience.

I am sorry but you are completely wrong there, there is a reason why 99% of decent coffee shops grind and dose on demand. They don't create more work for themselves for no reason. It is nothing to do with Coffee Snobbery. Just facts. Also every home user who has a grinder will grind fresh and not smash a batch out and store it for a week.

As soon as 15 minutes of grinding coffee will start to lose its Aromatics pretty rapidly. If this wasnt the case they would just grind an entire hopper full and leave it.. No one does not in the UK, US, NZ, Aus etc. This isnt done for snobbery it is done to get the best possible cup.

While week old ground coffee might taste ok to you, I would eat my hat if you made an Aeropress with freshly ground and week old coffee and didnt find the taste substantially different. That is the reason a lot of people will drag a hand grinder into work.

Regarding the bean comment coffee beans are usually best at least a few days after roasting anyway after being allowed to rest So no I would not!!

You see that the difference is convenience and every day life. Preground beans will maintain about 95% of the flavour of the unground and quite frankly unless you are sitting round sipping at it and writing long essays about its character, that will do. And anyway, grinding beans per cup for my work coffee would make each coffee making trip about 20 minutes long! And the flavours in tasting notes (subjective anyway- how do you know that we all taste the same?) do also come out with milk in the coffee- again, its all about what you like, not what others prescribe.

bigmonka

Dougimusprime wrote:

Fellow coffee fans. I'm looking for some feedback on a project I have been working on. Its coffee/bicycle related and super quick...which means you should fill it out.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/77LCFWV

I did your survey for you. What made me chuckle was the idea that someone would take hot cider on a ride

twist83

95% I do not think so Care to back those figures up? I am not arguing about how convinient it is grinding and some people don't have the facility/need to grind at work BUT saying that week old ground coffee or even day old ground coffee tastes and is half as good as freshly ground is wrong.

It has nothing to do with Snobbery at all. When I am paying £5-6 a bag of coffee I want the best I can get out of it. That means grinding on demand where possible. I have been known before to grind a days worth of coffee in the Mazzer at home for use in the office with the Aeropress and the taste change is very noticeable.

I have also done a few cupping courses where older coffee is used for comparison, so it is based on my experiences. I like to get the best out of what I have. I like to do that with most things. I don't see the point in going to the expense and time to procure decent/expensive coffee and not make the most out of it that is all.

People at work drink instant, some go french press with supermarket coffee. I never look down on them or make a comment. I have made cups before with the Aeropress and they all loved it. Up to them what they do though.

This is a thread about coffee, these are MY views on coffee, no one has prescribed them to me they come from spending a vast amount of time and money on various coffee making contraptions etc. I use what I read as guidance, learning from people with greater skill/experience in the field. If you want to put milk with it, then go for it. I am just stating for other people TRY the Aeropress without milk and see what you think, try and grind fresh as well. Every little helps.

Anyway essay over and for me discussion over before it spoils a decent thread. Best to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

menthel

twist83 wrote:

95% I do not think so Care to back those figures up? I am not arguing about how convinient it is grinding and some people don't have the facility/need to grind at work BUT saying that week old ground coffee or even day old ground coffee tastes and is half as good as freshly ground is wrong.

It has nothing to do with Snobbery at all. When I am paying £5-6 a bag of coffee I want the best I can get out of it. That means grinding on demand where possible. I have been known before to grind a days worth of coffee in the Mazzer at home for use in the office with the Aeropress and the taste change is very noticeable.

I have also done a few cupping courses where older coffee is used for comparison, so it is based on my experiences. I like to get the best out of what I have. I like to do that with most things. I don't see the point in going to the expense and time to procure decent/expensive coffee and not make the most out of it that is all.

People at work drink instant, some go french press with supermarket coffee. I never look down on them or make a comment. I have made cups before with the Aeropress and they all loved it. Up to them what they do though.

This is a thread about coffee, these are my views on coffee that come from spending a vast amount of time and money on various coffee making contraptions etc. If you want to put milk with it, then go for it. I am just stating for other people TRY the Aeropress without milk and see what you think, try and grind fresh as well. Every little helps.

Anyway essay over and for me discussion over before it spoils a decent thread. Best to agree to disagree. No hard feelings

Back yours up first!

Cupping course? And you claim not to be a coffee snob!

No problem with agreeing to disagree. Lets all have a cup of coffee to celebrate. Mine's with milk!

mrfpb

menthel wrote:

No problem with agreeing to disagree. Lets all have a cup of coffee to celebrate. Mine's with milk!

Menthel and twist83, I think you've had enough coffee already!

twist83

Mine is easily backed up go Google it and I guarantee you will be flooded with what I am saying and to be honest regardless the proof is in the cup... That speaks volumes.

Passionate not a snob. Nothing wrong with getting the best out of something Cupping courses are great and really open your eyes to different coffees and tastes (Including why I am right on the above haha) If you are happy to settle for average coffee that is cool. At least you are not going to Starbucks and are supporting smaller coffee folk

We have not had enough coffee yet. Lets take this outside and tussle I mean no harm!!!

menthel

I only know I have had enough coffee once the palpitations start!

Show me some scientific papers then I might believe you. I want scientific method, stats and repeatability. I am a medicines regulator after all! (Only joking by the way, I have more important dull scientific docs to read!)

veronese68

I thought a cupping course was something completely different.
Regarding 20 minutes taken to make a cup of coffee whilst at work, there are people here that can do that with instant.

menthel

Veronese68 wrote:

I thought a cupping course was something completely different.
Regarding 20 minutes taken to make a cup of coffee whilst at work, there are people here that can do that with instant.

I did think it might be tricky to make a cup of coffee one handed whilst cradling ones own private areas.

You are not a civil servant are you? That sounds like the kind of thing that goes on where I work too...

notsoblue

Most of my coffee at home is made with a vacuum coffee maker that looks like a chemistry set. It usually takes me about 5 mins to make a cup and this involves weighing and grinding beans, measuring out the water, waiting for it to boil and then brewing for two minutes. I fully admit that this drawn out process is about 75% for the taste and 25% for the ritual routine aspect. The latter shouldnt' be ignored when considering the consumption of coffee. Theres something quite satisfying about drinking a nice tasting cup of coffee that you've made in a more manual fashion.

I guess its a bit like the difference between cooking a meal from its basic ingredients compared to buying a microwave ready meal.

welkman

Just roasted up the last of my green beans from Has Bean. Any recommendation for a good new green bean to buy for a classic chocolate smooth espresso ? Not to keen on the overly bright/lemon tasting stuff.

Cheers

clarkey cat

I've just been given a Briel Chamonix Espresso machine.

I understand this is a bit of an 'entry level' machine but after a couple of false starts I had a very nice espresso this morning made with Whittards Espresso beans.

Any tips for a novice?

Gussio

welkman wrote:

Just roasted up the last of my green beans from Has Bean. Any recommendation for a good new green bean to buy for a classic chocolate smooth espresso ? Not to keen on the overly bright/lemon tasting stuff.

Cheers

No recommendation on green beans, but I would be interested to know what you are using to roast your coffee with? Its a lark that I am keen to try...

welkman

I use an old school popcorn maker. It is a bit like a super hot hair dryer! It takes three loads to roast a weeks worth of beans and you can get them to your desired roast. I often find hasbean can be on the light side for my tastes. I have been going for just into the second crack and this has produced the best espresso yet. I am using a rancillio silvia at home and an aeropress for work.

twist83

welkman wrote:

Just roasted up the last of my green beans from Has Bean. Any recommendation for a good new green bean to buy for a classic chocolate smooth espresso ? Not to keen on the overly bright/lemon tasting stuff.

Cheers

If you dont mind buying in bulk try Bella Barista there Green Bean bulk package at £69 for 10KG which is 10 X 1KG bags if different coffees

Looking into getting a Gene roaster.

twist83

clarkey cat wrote:

I've just been given a Briel Chamonix Espresso machine.

I understand this is a bit of an 'entry level' machine but after a couple of false starts I had a very nice espresso this morning made with Whittards Espresso beans.

Any tips for a novice?

Biggest tip try some beans from the Likes of Hasbean, James Gourmet, Rave etc.

If you can grind your own. Will make a huge difference in an espresso machine as you can grind to the correct consistency to extract a decent shot of espresso.

tilt

Just bought myself an aeropress, not completely convinced tbh. Getting a decent flavour from it but it just seems to lack a bit of depth (owing to most of the oil being removed). It's certainly smooth. Not sure it will replace my trusty french press at work just yet.

twist83

How are you making it tilt? It does make for a very clean cup. I tend to find French Press a bit too 'muddy' however some like it this way.

tilt

Have tried the standard method as per the instructions and the inverted method (as per Hasbean). Using a fine grind (though slightly coarser than I would grind for my Gaggia), tried a few different blends and single origins.

I think the inverted method was slightly better. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the result that I should be, just unsure whether I'm actually that much of a fan of the type of brew it gives.

Wish I could bring my Gaggia and Iberital in to work!

menthel

I find that it just takes a good bit of practice and experimenting to get it right for each coffee. After a few goes I cen get a positive oil slick on a cup from my aeropress. People say that the aftermarket metal filters allow more oils through (I haven't tried one myself) so that may be worth a try.

twist83

As per Menthel I get an Oil sheen on the coffee. However I know what you mean about taste. I think it is just how it makes coffee and may not be to your taste. My mother loves dark dark roast as in 'Italian style' almost charcoal/acrid haha. I bought her an Aeropress and she didnt get on with it.

Went back to French Press with Dark roast beans.

Sounds like you are making it correctly and trying different things as well. The inverted method certainyl works better. Maybe try something like a Monsoon Malabar through it?

tilt

I've already tried Monsoon Malabar with it (at two different levels of roast) - same result, reasonable amount of flavour but relatively 'thin' coffee. I do get oils on the surface (more with the inverted method) but the filter is clearly removing most of it - you only have to compare the mouthfeel of a proper espresso.

I will perservere a bit more and see what happens.

twist83

While it is called an Aeropress and I think does mention espresso it will never produce anything like an Espresso machine will produce. You will not get the mouth feel or intensity of something which forces the water through at 9 bar.

No brewed method will achieve this sadly if that is what you are after. The only thing that does Espresso is an Espresso machine

Gussio

As an aside, I tried running a French press brew through a Hario V60 (following recommendation from Pact Coffee). Gives a very clean drink and worth a go.

noisemonkey

currently enjoying some monsoon malabar, love that spicey taste.

goonz

23 pages on coffee?

Stevo C

goonz wrote:

23 pages on coffee?

You want to have a look at the LFGSS coffee appreciation thread - that's got 8,716 posts - this is just a baby at 449!

adam0bmx0

Been to Prufrock a couple of times on Leather Lane, yum, I go for a Piccolo.

Also the weekend consisted of going back to flat cap, both at borough market and near Westminster abbey, shame they now use Notes beans, preferred Square Mile, they said they've changed in the last month or two.