They weren't all 'rent a mob' !!
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Absolutely, but in this case, the idiot has been party to a violent disorder which we both know was actually a riot but for the fact that the MPS would be liable for all damages if a riot charge was preferred. You can't compare his actions with the usual Friday/Saturday night brawl outside a nightclub unless the injuries ramp up to S18/S20 or worse. A violent disorder outside a nightclub is only prefered because of numbers involved and violence on even a minor scale being used.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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Well I am comparing the recklessness with the violent brawl, people can be and are severely injured/killed by these actions. When engaging in such behaviour it is (most probably) uncontrolled so the perpetrators have allowed luck to decide the outcome, which could be death, as do drunk drivers.The judge said this case needed to be an example, so the sentence is by the judges own words, to the upper end of the scale, and as such it places it at odds with the other examples of recklessness I have suggested.0
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Most brawls outside or even inside clubs amount to nothing more than S39 common assault or even just a public order offence. The amount of murders, manslaughters and GBHs from these brawls isn't high in comparrison. Where the brawl does ramp up to these levels, the courts do on the whole impose realistic sentences. An assault of any kind isn't nice, but with assaults being so prevelant, the prisons would be overflowing with inmates if everyone was jailed. Conversely, you don't get many idiots chucking heavy objects off the top of tall buildings towards a crowd after having caused thousands of pounds of damage getting in to the building. A perfect opportunity to send out a message.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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He was done for violent disorder, so the amount of murders, manslaughters and GBHs was zero :?philthy3 wrote:Most brawls outside or even inside clubs amount to nothing more than S39 common assault or even just a public order offence. The amount of murders, manslaughters and GBHs from these brawls isn't high in comparrison. Where the brawl does ramp up to these levels, the courts do on the whole impose realistic sentences.
Bit of a conflict there isn't it? We shouldn't stop people having fights outside nightvlubs because there's lots of them (therefore it's a big problem). But someone does something very rare that on this occasion doesn't hurt anyone and we should punish him hard to send out a message. To all the other people who aren't doing the same thing :?An assault of any kind isn't nice, but with assaults being so prevelant, the prisons would be overflowing with inmates if everyone was jailed........A perfect opportunity to send out a message.
Not saying he shouldn't be punished, just saying the others shou;d be punished too.0 -
People like this story because he's a middle class student with left-wing sympathies, and the general public is largely not middle class, and they themselves are either right-wing, not middle class, or both.
There's a lot of schadenfreude.
That the same desire for 'justice' isn't applied to the police officer who put a guy in hospital with internal bleeding in the brain, or the officers who pushed ian tomlinson, is interesting, and in my opinion, reflects the right-wing sympathy towards authoritarianism that exists0 -
The fact that nobody got hurt was purely down to luck. Getting hit on the head by a fire extinguisher thrown from a roof is more likely to cause serious damage than a punch, .Smarter than the average bear.0
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I can not claim to be unbiased but my view of the whole scenario.
Some of those on the demonstrations were out to cause trouble and some were swept along with it due to the mob effect.
Was it typical of that generation? No the peacefully demonstrations in other cities proved that.
Was it orchestrated by the organisers of the demonstration? Unlikely, because if so why limit it just to the demonstrations in London, why not elsewhere.
Did he deserve to be punished? yes he did. My comment was about the inconsistency in the sentences.
Just because he goes to a college in the New Forest doe not make him Middle class and just because he was involved with the demonstrations does not mean he has left wing leanings.
From a middle class, middle aged man whose politics are my own affair but can not be described as simply as either left wing or right wing.0 -
The sentence is a fair one but it disturbs me a bit how the police (and in particular the metropolitan police) seem to be law onto themselves - someone throws something potentially very dangerous at them, but injures no-one and gets sent to jail yet the police kill unarmed, innocent people with virtually no repercusions.0
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Omar Little wrote:The sentence is a fair one but it disturbs me a bit how the police (and in particular the metropolitan police) seem to be law onto themselves - someone throws something potentially very dangerous at them, but injures no-one and gets sent to jail yet the police kill unarmed, innocent people with no repercusions.
FTFY.0 -
Mother pregnant at 18, not married to his father. What chance did he have ?0
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Omar Little wrote:The sentence is a fair one but it disturbs me a bit how the police (and in particular the metropolitan police) seem to be law onto themselves - someone throws something potentially very dangerous at them, but injures no-one and gets sent to jail yet the police kill unarmed, innocent people with virtually no repercusions.
Give the examples then? The decision to prosecute anyone is based on the available evidence and is made by the Crown Prosecution Service not the police. If it involves death or serious injury to someone it will be either a supervised investigation by the Independant Police Complaints Authority or conducted by them. These are two organisations that are not influenced by the police and are keen to demonstrate their impartiality by erring on the side of bias against the police. You've only heard about the one protester to be prosecuted so far. What about all the other protesters and suspects in other important cases that haven't been prosecuted because there is insufficient evidence by the CPS prosecution standards? Is that a cover up as well? Didn't think so.
As for the post claiming there is no prosecution for assaults; where did it say that? Violent disorder is at the top of the range for public order offences only eclipsed by riot, which is never prosecuted because it is an admittance of the break down of law and order and means whichever force is responsible for policing the area, is liable for all compensation. Anyone charged with violent disorder is taken as being party to the whole incident if it can be shown they have used violence. This fools sentence wasn't just for throwing a fire extinguisher off a building AT police officers, it encapsulated all the damage and assaults that went on. If we're all happy that it's only a minor offence because no one was actually hurt, then maybe we should let anyone who fires a firearm at someone and misses off.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
What happened in the Ian Tomlinson case - were any police charged with that - seems fairly clear cut that he was innocent of any real offence and ended up dead after being assaulted by the police. I'm sure if a protester had done the same to a policeman who had died that person would now be serving a very long sentence.
The CPS may make the decisions on prosecutions but they can only act on the evidence in front of them - and who supplies them with the evidence ?
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
TuckerUK wrote:jim453 wrote:I feel sorry for the kid.
Got swept along with a load of others and did something stupid. I've done the same.
It's right that he pays, as he is responsible for his own actions but that's a bad start to his adult life there. He is in no way prepared for where he is going.
Silly lad.
I agree.
Likely a feeble minded soul, with a whole group of others egging him on.
If I had a pound for every stupid thoughtless act I made as a child/teenager/young/adult/middle age man... (that list just kept growing!)...
Not sure I'd change the punishment though.
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The Ian Tomlinson investigation was conducted by the IPCC and a file of all the available evidence sent to the CPS for review. The decision was that there was not a realistic prospect of a succesful prosecution. Despite that, the MPS are conducting an internal disciplinary procedure that will see him dismissed and the loss of his pension.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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philthy3 wrote:The Ian Tomlinson investigation was conducted by the IPCC and a file of all the available evidence sent to the CPS for review. The decision was that there was not a realistic prospect of a succesful prosecution. Despite that, the MPS are conducting an internal disciplinary procedure that will see him dismissed and the loss of his pension.
But, reverse the roles of Mr Tomlinson and the police officer (lone officer, group of the public (remembering Mr Tomlinson was not involved in the protest)), incident caught on a passer by's phone camera, mixed autopsy results etc.
Do you really think Mr Tomlinson would a) be in the same situation the policeman is in now
or b) doing a very long stint inside? And saying how brilliant and unhindered the IPCC investigation was (or wasn't), how it was "pure coincidence" the initial autopsy was carried out by a coroner "under the spotlight" so to speak and how unbiased the CPS isn't really an answer....0 -
The days of widespread corruption in the police are long gone. To have orchestrated having a Pathologist examine the body who was under the spotlight would have required the assistance of H.M. Coroner who has overall power in the investigation of sudden deaths. He or she authorises the post mortem and arranges the Pathologist. Each party is entitled to have the body examined to see if there are variances in the post mortem analysis. What you suggest would require a conspiracy of the propertions existing in the MPS in the late 60's and early 70's. You're looking for things that aren't there as despite there being insufficient evidence to proceed with a criminal case against the officer, the MPS are doing their level best to kick him out..I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0
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It doesn't have to be corruption for there to be bias in the system.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
And some people will try to find a conspiracy theory in a bowl of custard.
I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.0
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The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:
It seems he is the opposite side of the coin to yourself ?0 -
dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:
It seems he is the opposite side of the coin to yourself ?
Probably.
I thought that was you though 0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:
It seems he is the opposite side of the coin to yourself ?
Probably.
I thought that was you though
Nah, I am trying to mellow out in my old age and be more understanding, hence I am more observational and less confrontational. I'm just trying to be a better person, like earl but I don't have a brother called Randy. 0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:dmclite wrote:Nah, I am trying to mellow out in my old age and be more understanding, hence I am more observational and less confrontational. I'm just trying to be a better person, like earl but I don't have a brother called Randy.
I could be that brother you know.
Metaphorically speaking.
That would make for interesting viewing. All the best duo's in the world seem to have been built on a bit of antagonism, for example, Morcambe and Wise, Cannon and Ball, Rod Hull and Emu....I could go on but I am now guilty of thread hijack. :shock:0 -
The Judge wrote:You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin.
Hey, leave me out of it.The Judge wrote:My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
Why are all the right wing 'stringing up is too good for them' crowd so obsessed with rape in prison showers? Some sort of secret fantasy probably.0 -
dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:
It seems he is the opposite side of the coin to yourself ?
Probably.
I thought that was you though
Nah, I am trying to mellow out in my old age and be more understanding, hence I am more observational and less confrontational. I'm just trying to be a better person, like earl but I don't have a brother called Randy.
dmclite"There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0 -
Aggieboy wrote:dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dmclite wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:The Judge wrote:It is absolutely superb that this fool has been jailed for 32 months. He thought that he could come to our capital city and take liberties. He has learnt to his cost that this is not the case. It also sends out the message that the law is even-handed. You are going down whether you are a football hooligan or a Tarquin. It doesn't matter how many letters of good character your family manage to cobble together on your behalf. My one hope is that many more of this odious character's student demonstrator colleagues will be joining him in the the not too distant future. My advice to him is, don't drop the soap in the shower.
First post, with a name, 'the judge'?
:roll:
It seems he is the opposite side of the coin to yourself ?
Probably.
I thought that was you though
Nah, I am trying to mellow out in my old age and be more understanding, hence I am more observational and less confrontational. I'm just trying to be a better person, like earl but I don't have a brother called Randy.
dmclite
Hello Aggieboy, long time no see.............nice post. 0 -
double post0
