Need a bit of help.

Tonymufc

Ok I've just joined a club at long last. I went out with them for the first time on Sunday for a short hilly ride and realised that I'm not as good as I thought when it came to climbing, and really struggled to keep up on the flat roads back. I won't get to go out with them every week due to the way my shifts work. I commute for the four days that I'm in work and the four days that I'm off I tend to go out for about two hours on two out of the four days. With the time I have available (will try and find more time depending on advice given) how am I best moving forward to make myself primarily a better, stronger climber, plus a stronger fitter rider all round.

Cheers Tony.

ride_whenever

Ride to work faster.

Do intervals on your way to work.



From the sounds of things your load is about right, so you need to up the intensity.

Tonymufc

I'd thought about that but its only 7 1/2 miles with only a very short (wouldn't even call it a hill) bump in the road just before I turn through the gates at work. So I was a bit unsure wether that would make me stronger going up hill.

Zachariah

Seven and a half miles is a pretty long bike commute in my book! Plenty of opportunity to really push it, though of course on the way in it might not be advisable as you'll arrive in a pool of sweat.

If you don't have hills, do sprint intervals. They do work, but you have to really thrash it. As Ride_Whenever said, just do more intense work and the hill climbing will improve off the back of that.

Tonymufc

Pools of sweat aren't an issue as we have showers, our own lockers and changing rooms. That's the commute sorted then, what about the rides I'm doing on my days off?

jgsi

Tonymufc wrote:

Pools of sweat aren't an issue as we have showers, our own lockers and changing rooms. That's the commute sorted then, what about the rides I'm doing on my days off?

Find yourself a shortish but not too brutal an incline .. 1 km distance or so...
ride up it 10 times and down again .. remembering to recover well
go slightly quicker each time if you can from 9 mph to 14mph in 10 increments and you might be feeling as you are earning your wage... then repeat if you can.. might do for a happy hour!
That sort of thing?

Tonymufc

What sort of % hill were you thinking of. I have one on my doorstep its about 1k long but maybe only 5-6%.

lfcquin

With no formal training background I can only tell you what I would do. That would be (at this stage) not bothering with the intervals, but doing some long steady rides. If you have the time I would look to increase at least one of your longer weekly rides to 3 or 4 hours and throw in the type of terrain that you are riding with the club. You should find that some regular steady riding will deliver improvement in the speed that you can cruise at and in your stamina. Once you have that base then I would start thinking about doing some intervals.

Tonymufc

I have a good base. Theres plenty of miles in these legs. I'm no stranger to 100+ mile rides. Its just that club riders do them more regular than I do and at a faster pace. It'll 3-4 weeks now until I get to go out with them so I wanted to use that time to try and improve a small aspect of my riding. Not expecting massive gains by the way in four weeks.

jgsi

Tonymufc wrote:

What sort of % hill were you thinking of. I have one on my doorstep its about 1k long but maybe only 5-6%.

Thats enough... you dont really want one to break your spirit, you want to develop speed and power.
On that note if like me no power meter there is a equation to estimate power output:

if someone in the know can give an idea if it is worth paying attention to?

bike and rider combined weight in kg x 9.8 x elevation gain in metres / time in seconds
gives power in watts and then possible add 10% for Drag Coefficient etc

Thick Tester

I'd have a word with some of the lads at the club you've joined. They'll be able to see how you climb and offer you some constructive suggestions....

lucan

Keep going out with the group. You obviously had to work hard to keep up on the hills and the flat, so it's a good workout and you will get stronger and faster. Why not ride the route you struggled with a few times during the week? If nothing else it will give you more confidence next time you climb it with them.

Great incentive to improve, isn't it?

Tonymufc

Lucan wrote:

Keep going out with the group. You obviously had to work hard to keep up on the hills and the flat, so it's a good workout and you will get stronger and faster. Why not ride the route you struggled with a few times during the week? If nothing else it will give you more confidence next time you climb it with them.

Great incentive to improve, isn't it?

I'd love to re-ride it but like I said I'm fairly limited on time during the week.

Brommers76

Mix the commute up if you aren't still improving. Do a longer route now and again, ride one hard, ride one with efforts in it. ( I ride anything from 15 - 25 miles one way- all it takes is a different time getting out of bed) You need to overload to progress and the skill comes in knowing the level of overload that elicits a training response but doesn't demoralise you or injure you.

If you are specifically bothered about climbing then practice. Also losing fat, increasing power, increasing your aerobic ability and improving technique will all contribute to better climbing.

Tonymufc

I find it hard to motivate myself on the commute and to be honest I've only ever viewed it as a means of getting to work and maintaining a bit of fitness. As for getting up earlier, I'm up at 5am as it is and do an eleven and a half hour day. Not excuses, but I do prefer the interval idea as it may get me to work a bit quicker. I will extend the commute home once the weather improves and the days become a bit longer.

bexley5200

get on the front of the club run and slow them down

Tonymufc

bexley5200 wrote:

get on the front of the club run and slow them down

. Don't think that would go down to well now would it. Shame on you.

jgsi

Tonymufc wrote:

bexley5200 wrote:

get on the front of the club run and slow them down

. Don't think that would go down to well now would it. Shame on you.

I will be starting those hill repeats in Feb... if last Sunday was to go on when I blew trying to hang onto a wheel on a piddly nonsense of a hill, nothing would have pleased me more than to have gone to the front to slow it down...on the bright side , it wasnt exactly comfortable, but was able t' keep with 20+mph pace on the flat .. so at least the good base paying dividends.

Tonymufc

I'm sort of in the same place. The pace was quite brisk on the way out. Even after the first hill, which I held my own going over, I was fine keeping up with them. But after the Cat and Fiddle and Long Hill I was totally cooked. I should add that the weather was lousey, windy and freezing cold. Bring on the hill reps.

CarbonCopy

Pay for the services of a cycle coach.The cash will be well spent and will make you much quicker,fitter than a pair of expensive new wheels.Not that you mentioned new wheels or anything,I was just saying

twotyred

CarbonCopy +1

If you can afford it, properly structured training will be much better than doing a home brew programme put together with bits and pieces of sometimes conflicting advice you get on here.

A decent coach will be able to work with the time you have available or more importantly perhaps tell you if your goals aren't doable with the time you can spare. However it does sound like you have enough time to get an effective programme put together.

Tonymufc

I would love to work with a coach but unfortunately there's no way I can afford it at the moment. I've never really trained before, or called it training, just rode my bike wherever, flat, hills, mixed. I was hoping that some of the peeps on here that are regular club/sportive riders would really be all over this.

Tonymufc

Thick Tester wrote:

I'd have a word with some of the lads at the club you've joined. They'll be able to see how you climb and offer you some constructive suggestions....

One of them suggested riding more consistently and recovering. Not to sure what that means.

amaferanga

Tonymufc wrote:

Thick Tester wrote:

I'd have a word with some of the lads at the club you've joined. They'll be able to see how you climb and offer you some constructive suggestions....

One of them suggested riding more consistently and recovering. Not to sure what that means.

Why didn't you ask him? :?

Tonymufc

amaferanga wrote:

Tonymufc wrote:

Thick Tester wrote:

I'd have a word with some of the lads at the club you've joined. They'll be able to see how you climb and offer you some constructive suggestions....

One of them suggested riding more consistently and recovering. Not to sure what that means.

Why didn't you ask him? :?

It was on the clubs forum. And to be honest I have no idea why I didn't ask. I'll post something on there now and see if he can answer it for me. Have you any suggestions as to what he may have meant?

twotyred

Have you any suggestions as to what he may have meant?

Probably longer rides at a consistent effort (taking it easy on the hills, not coasting on the downs) low enough to let you recover properly to leave you with energy to do some shorter more intense interval sessions. The idea behind riding consistently at a lower effort is that it builds endurance and trains your body to use fat more effectively plus consistent efforts are less fatiguing. Trying to keep up with the fast guys on the weekend club run is the biggest mistake amateurs make. It means they won't properly recover for the next 4-5 days and won't have enough energy to do quality sessions through the week.

How do you know if you've recovered? I'd suggest buying a heart rate monitor and finding your resting heart rate when you are well rested preferably in the evening relaxing.

Then the evening after your club ride find your resting heart rate. I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money that it will be 10-20 bpm above the first resting rate you found. Take it again the following evening after a night's sleep and a day resting and it should have dropped. If its back to the proper resting rate then that's a sign you've recovered.

Tonymufc

twotyred wrote:

Have you any suggestions as to what he may have meant?

Probably longer rides at a consistent effort (taking it easy on the hills, not coasting on the downs) low enough to let you recover properly to leave you with energy to do some shorter more intense interval sessions. The idea behind riding consistently at a lower effort is that it builds endurance and trains your body to use fat more effectively plus consistent efforts are less fatiguing. Trying to keep up with the fast guys on the weekend club run is the biggest mistake amateurs make. It means they won't properly recover for the next 4-5 days and won't have enough energy to do quality sessions through the week.

How do you know if you've recovered? I'd suggest buying a heart rate monitor and finding your resting heart rate when you are well rested preferably in the evening relaxing.

Then the evening after your club ride find your resting heart rate. I'd be willing to bet a fair amount of money that it will be 10-20 bpm above the first resting rate you found. Take it again the following evening after a night's sleep and a day resting and it should have dropped. If its back to the proper resting rate then that's a sign you've recovered.

They have rides that go out a few times during the week in the evenings, of about 40 miles or so, so I'm going to be getting out that way. Its of a fairly brisk pace which I'm ok with, mainly flat ( it was the hills that got to me last week ) so I'm thinking that if I can push myself during these sessions I should be able to achieve some of the things that were suggested in earlier posts.

twotyred

Give it a go but it still seems too hard. Sounds like you're back to "just riding you bike"

chill123

stick with the club runs. i remember when i first joined a club it nearly killed me the first couple of times out. it only took a few weeks before my fitness had caught up and i was up at the front when others were being dropped.

Tonymufc

I'll be going out with them on Tuesday 18th so I'll keep you updated as to wether I sink or swim.

Tonymufc

chill123 wrote:

stick with the club runs. i remember when i first joined a club it nearly killed me the first couple of times out. it only took a few weeks before my fitness had caught up and i was up at the front when others were being dropped.

Can't do regular club runs due to work shift pattern. Which is why I want to go out with them during the week. If I don't try it I'll never know. Simples!