Do not EVER buy a new bike on e-Bay

justabikegirl

Just a warning to all my bike friends. I wanted to build up a bike for myself so I purchased a "2010 Project 1 Trek Madone WSD" frame on e-Bay at Christmas. The frame arrived and looked good, but my enthusiasm was tempered by the fact that when I turned the frame over there was a big Trek sticker that clearly showed the frame was manufactured Jan. 15, 2008.

I contacted the seller (nixonvw) who told me the frames had not changed since 2008, so it didn't matter. I disagreed, since she advertised it as a 2010 frame. She would not agree to a return or a reduction in price so I contacted e-Bay who I thought had a Buyer Protection plan. Guess what? The seller "escalated" the complaint and e-Bay sided with the seller without ever contacting me for my side of the story. Evidently, once someone escalates a dispute the other person is locked out of the discussion.

What a shame for people legitimately wanting to sell their bikes or components. I have had good luck in the past both buying and selling on e-Bay but this $860 mistake was a HUGE lesson for me. I have appealed their decision, but my shopping days on e-Bay are over. Buyer Beware.

1stGenRex

Can you make a paypal dispute at this point? (I'm assuming that's how you paid).

I bought something for my wife, that was over $200, and it ended up being counterfeit. I made a paypal claim and included all the details, and they sided with me.

Something to consider, and I wish you the best of luck.

tri-sexual

even if the frame design is unchanged from 08 to 10 the frame should NOT be described as a 2010 frame.
its like buying a dog which is described as a puppy but turns out to be a 2 year old, same dog but much older.
i think the seller should accept a return if you are not entirely happy with your purchase because it is wrongly represented.

on the plus side however, because the bike frame is a custom project 1 frame, the paint/ finish will not "date" the bike unlike an off the shelf item which can look "old" simply because of the colour scheme.
i personally think the bike (frame) looks beautiful and the price is very good (compared to uk prices anyway), so if you decide to keep her and build her up with lots of high end components it will be a beautiful bike and you love her and the "age" issue will quickly be forgotten.

bendertherobot

Sounds rather unfair. That said £600 for an unused Madone Project one? What's the spec on it?

amaferanga

Seems rather OTT that no-one should EVER buy a bike on ebay based on one person's bad experience.

meanredspider

Purchases like that I pay via PayPal and pay them via my credit card - three levels of protection - eBay, PayPal, credit card.

I think you have a case.

lucan

Contact your credit card company, if you paid by credit card. And Paypal if you used that. One way or another you should get your money back.

Once you have the money back you can tell the seller to arrange collection at their expense, within a given time-frame and at your convenience. They may not bother, and if they don't, you win the frame.

Good luck.

Pep

I once had a dispute (boutgth something on ebay, paid via PayPal with credit card). The item never arrived. I complained to ebay, they "sided" with me but concluded there was still nothing they could do.

In my view you are technically right. Good luck.

jonmack

I don't see why you having one bad experience means no one should ever ever buy a new bike from ebay...

Squillinossett

If you paid via credit card linked into paypal. Phone your credit card company, as they will be able to investigate and chargeback the amount if found in your favour.

You will ;loose your paypal account by doing this.

Do you have photos of the frame, as £550 for a project one frame is still a good price, and a steal if it is in prety much newcondition.

A link to the auction page would begood as well.

dombo6

If the spec is the same as 2010 it does sound you got a good deal, even if it was manufactered in 2008. How much of a discount over the current new price did you get? And as it is new can you register it wth Trek to get their warranty?
As to buyer beware, that's a given on ebay. It's only an internet based collection of classifieds ads.

fungus_the_muffin_man

To put this into perspective. I bought a brand new kona cadabra of eBay at over 800 off the list price. The bike came perfectly wrapped, damaged and was exactly as described. Is definitely buy a new bike off eBay again.

Anonymous

Fungus The Muffin Man wrote:

To put this into perspective. I bought a brand new kona cadabra of eBay at over 800 off the list price. The bike came perfectly wrapped, damaged and was exactly as described. Is definitely buy a new bike off eBay again.

It came damaged?!?

weapons

NapoleonD wrote:

Fungus The Muffin Man wrote:

To put this into perspective. I bought a brand new kona cadabra of eBay at over 800 off the list price. The bike came perfectly wrapped, damaged and was exactly as described. Is definitely buy a new bike off eBay again.

It came damaged?!?

That's fine, assuming it was described as so...

Monty Dog

To have a valid claim you'd have to demonstrate a "loss" - the fact that you got the bike as a good price and cheaper than the current model, I fail to understand what your beef is. You still have a bike and unless someone looks at the sticker underneath, will they know any different?

Anonymous

I bought my last two frames on eBay and I'm chuffed to bits with both.

rolf_f

Monty Dog wrote:

To have a valid claim you'd have to demonstrate a "loss" - the fact that you got the bike as a good price and cheaper than the current model, I fail to understand what your beef is. You still have a bike and unless someone looks at the sticker underneath, will they know any different?

I'd have thought it was easy enough to demonstrate - simply the fact that the purchaser values a 2008 model less than a 2010 should surely be enough. Objects depreciate - if an item is described in such a way that the value of that product is reasonably higher than it is, then it is likely to get higher bids on it.

The fact that the item still appears good value shouldn't in any way affect the rights of the buyer to return it for a refund (in accordance with ebay rules; the item was significantly not as described). However, it sounds like it would be unreasonable to keep the frame and expect a partial refund.

I'd keep the frame and enjoy it.

Lillywhite

I brought a 2005 Trek OCLV frame off eBay in December 2009. Described as mint condition and it was!
When buying anything off eBay you just need to be careful and always use PayPal.

1stGenRex

Monty Dog wrote:

To have a valid claim you'd have to demonstrate a "loss" - the fact that you got the bike as a good price and cheaper than the current model, I fail to understand what your beef is. You still have a bike and unless someone looks at the sticker underneath, will they know any different?

not true...Paypal has an option when opening a dispute for an item "Significantly diffrent than described"

I mean, I drive a car where the 2002 model looks a lot like the 2006...if I was sold a 2002, and paid for a 2006, the differences are there.

petemadoc

Ebay is a minefield for stuff like this.

1 bike I bought for the wife had clearly been crashed and need some new parts. I did get some money back from the seller.

I bought a MTB of ebay and it was in mint condition.

If you use ebay, you're taking a chance. Sounds like you had a good deal anyways

gsk82

meanredspider wrote:

Purchases like that I pay via PayPal and pay them via my credit card - three levels of protection - eBay, PayPal, credit card.

I think you have a case.

i bought some wheels using paypal and a credit card last year. i never had any problems but i later read that either (i cant remember which it was):

by using paypal the credit card protection ceased or
by using a credit card the paypal protection ceased

also i'm sure i read a very similar thread to this a couple of weeks ago

andy_wrx

gsk82 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Purchases like that I pay via PayPal and pay them via my credit card - three levels of protection - eBay, PayPal, credit card.

I think you have a case.

i bought some wheels using paypal and a credit card last year. i never had any problems but i later read that either (i cant remember which it was):

by using paypal the credit card protection ceased or
by using a credit card the paypal protection ceased

also i'm sure i read a very similar thread to this a couple of weeks ago

What you're talking about here is Section 75 protection, where the supplier of the goods and the credit card co. are 'jointly and severally liable' if the price is over £100

- that's where e.g. you book a holiday and then the tour operator goes bust and you claim the cost back off your credit card if you paid for the holiday that way, because under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act the credit card company and the supplier are both liable to refund you if you don't get the goods

- but this only works if the company you paid was the tour operator, not a middle-man : if you paid a middle-man and then the tour operator went bust, that's different and the middle-man would have to refund you (of course it was the middle-man who went bust rather than the tour operator, then you could claim against your credit card co...)

- similarly, in case of PayPal, it's a 2-step transaction : your credit card company pays PayPal, PayPal pays the eBay seller
Section 75 would only help you if PayPal went bust, but if the seller did then you'd have to sort it out via PayPal

The problem for the OP here is that PayPal == eBay, they're both arms of the same company.

Now certainly I'd say that if you are unhappy with the goods that you got, you could open a PayPal dispute and try to get your money back that way, but whether or not you'd get very far if the original eBay dispute was against you, well you'll have to see.

If that didn't work out, you could open a dispute with your credit card company, but they might view it that their transaction with PayPal was correct (i.e. PayPal did what they were supposed to, transfer the money) and hence they might not be interested.
If your bank did chargeback the money from PayPal for you, then PayPal would not be very pleased abvout it and would likely close your PayPal and eBay accounts, so if it were a small transaction you might not consider it worth it, but if this bike model-year does bother you that much...

markos1963

Nobodies mentioned the Small Claims Court yet or Trading Standards. If the goods are not as described then you can complain to Trading Standards and they might take action, if that's no good you can take the seller to the Small Claims Court(it's not that expensive to do and you don't need a solicitor)

1stGenRex

taking someone to small claims doesn't mean you'll see any money from them...the judge can rule in your favor, and say they owe you, but you can't MAKE them pay you.

TuckerUK

Have you thought of involving the Police? Your local MP?

If someone is selling items fraudulently, and eBay are allowing this, and profiting from it...

If you check out many dodgy sellers on eBay, you'll be surprised at the number who are eBay awarded mega sellers (or whatever the latest buzzword is). Ripping people off is a major revenue earner, why should eBay try to stop it? Even this post has attracted comments supporting the seller...the public always gets what they want.

I stopped using my account after eBay removed a neutral (i.e. not goo, not bad) comment I left against a dishonest seller. I could even prove his dishonesty from an email he sent me. eBay refused to reinstate the feedback, which just goes to show feedback you see for sellers can be completely unrepresentative of the truth, and therefore worthless. Considering eBay trade touting the feedback system as some sort of safety net, you see there's something not quite right there.

SteveR_100Milers

small claims court - why dont you contact consumer helpine, or better still joih Which? Legal.

Monty Dog

WTF, someone gets a fair deal and then gets the hump because it wasn't quite the bargain they expected? I buy and sell lots on ebay - got 100% feedback in the hundreds and never had a bum deal. Caveat emptor.

1stGenRex

Had it been advertized properly, the buyer wouldn't be angry...heck, he might have even still bought the frame...but being sold a 2010, and getting a 2008, is crappy no matter what way you put it.

flanners1

Not sure how you were locked out of a decision any dispute relies on both parties giving their side of events? I have had several disputes and they have all been resolved correctly i.e. in my favour Seriously if you put what you have typed her in correspondence to Ebay I find it difficult to understand how you find yourself in the current predicament.

I have bought lots of items from Ebay and 99% have been excellent (fee and paypal fees another matter :twisted: ) I would urge you to contact Ebay as the seller has mis-sold the item and Ebay would categorise this as such I am sure. Good luck!

oscarbudgie

If something comes 'not as described' or damaged and you paid with Paypal you need to return it - with trackable proof of posting -as soon as you receive it - while raising a claim against the seller with Paypal (not Ebay). Do this and you will be fine.

Bar Shaker

I refuse to use ebay. There are some good sellers on there and some bargain products but the place is full of criminals and con men. There are just too many stories of people sending out damaged bikes/goods, bikes with major parts missing, stolen parts/bikes. Getting your money back is not simple or quick.

Paying your Paypal bill with a credit card, to gain protection, is a serious mistake. Your card company may possibly indemnify you against Paypal not doing the service you ask (ie paying someone), but you will have no protection against the quality of the goods you buy. You are not buying the goods from Paypal.

Paypal are as good as useless when things go wrong, they are also very expensive to use for buying or selling. My account was hacked a couple of years ago and whilst Paypal flagged this up, they then froze my account. It took two years to get my (small) balance released.

If you do see something you like on ebay, ask the seller if you can collect and pay by cash. You can then inspect the goods before handing over the money. If they say no, walk away.