RLJing for safety

sketchley

Again good point well made.

However, would you agree trying to change the opinion of non cylists have of cyclists is half the battle when trying to request better facilities and that RLJs do not help this.

Greg T

Rick Chasey wrote:

Only people who ride Campagnolo, sorry, Campag, no, sorry, Campy, jump red lights.

Shimano and SRAM riders don't clearly. Unless they don't wear a helmet, which case, they might do.

Unless they ride schwalbe marathons obviously. Then they're bastards.

They're even more likely to RLJ if they don't fix inner tubes but just replace them. Obviously. Because RLJing isn't green, even if you have to use your breaks when you don't RLJ.

If you believe in that.

I rode Marathon + (see I used "+" - that makes me cool) for a while and I'm a complete bastard so all of the above would seem to be true.

I tell you who is a bastard though... the guy in the castelli tights who I dropped five times FIVE TIMES only for him to catch me / sail through the reds on Tuesday night.

If there's one reason not to RLJ it's to prevent you doing that to me..........

You'll be glad to know that did for him on a long stretch so the story does have a happy ending.

dhope

Rolf F wrote:

Is it OK to RLJ whilst riding clipless?

Depends, fixed?
Also, are they leg braking and can they trackstand?

Clever Pun

I'd like to out 'rlj for safety' as the utter horseshit it is

you come to a ped crossing it's red there is no one around you go through it, nothing to do with safety, it's about not wanting to stop

jonny_trousers

notsoblue wrote:

Being sactimonious about other people's riding habits won't help with this. Also, anyone who believes that *all* cyclists jump red lights and as such don't deserve space on the road or to request better facilities is quite plainly an idiot.

Absolutely. As long as there are cyclists on the road there will be idiots to moan about them.

Again, I am not for one second suggesting RLJing is fine providing you think it is safe for you to do so. I'm saying that there are certain junctions where it is can be pretty dangerous to be a cyclist among heavy traffic and perhaps careful RLJing might make some sense.

For those who know the area, it is the junction travelling south where Brixton Rd crosses Camberwell New Road where I thought that chap was wise to RLJ. That set of lights is a nightmare as they are a good 20 metres or so away from the actual junction and if you want to go straight on you have to dice with fast moving cars who may well wish to turn left across your path (not to mention that the drivers who frequent that junction are far from the best).

jonny_trousers

Clever Pun wrote:

I'd like to out 'rlj for safety' as the utter horseshit it is

you come to a ped crossing it's red there is no one around you go through it, nothing to do with safety, it's about not wanting to stop

Yeah, in your example it's all about not wanting to stop, I agree. In others, however...

greg66_tri_v2.0

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I'm just starting to wonder if there might be occasions when it is actually wise to carefully RLJ and I may consider doing so myself in future.

Your thoughts?
.

There are plainly occasion s when it wise to RLJ.

If, for example, Sharkopus, Jaws or The Mighty Kong are chasing you, you'd be a fool not to RLJ.

There are probably other occasions too.

fuelex

I RLJ'd this morning, I don't usually but I didn't get any free haribo from wiggle....
I blame them and I'll be contacting them with a complaint.

nich

The problem is that no matter how safe you think it is, every other motorist on the road won't be expecting you to jump the light. You take the chance 'n jump then, then BAM, some motorist comes flying around the corner and slams into you (or something), and it's you that ends up feeling like the fool, because you are the one that broke the law.

That's my take on it

I'll own up to jumping a red light when I was a wee beginner in the commuting world. Something similar to the above happened, and I still regret it to this day. Lesson learnt

deptfordmarmoset

Clever Pun wrote:

I'd like to out 'rlj for safety' as the utter horseshit it is

you come to a ped crossing it's red there is no one around you go through it, nothing to do with safety, it's about not wanting to stop

You're probably right about simply not wanting to stop. It's what I do as a road-aware pedestrian - if there's nothing coming, I won't stop, I'll cross the road without worrying about the colour of the lights.

But I believe there's another side to the safety argument - the red light is nothing to do with cyclist danger either. Because motorists have consistently proved that they're incapable of organising themselves as interactive traffic without killing people - be it in car, on bike or on foot - a comprehensive light system had to be introduced. There is absolutely no question that traffic lights were introduced to regulate any danger represented by cyclists. Yet cyclists are included as traffic. I believe there's a very strong argument that cyclists have been included in a danger control system without ever being part of the danger. Cyclists just get the control. Well, law-abiding ones do.

(And yet I almost never RLJ - though, here's an exception: I own up to being at a toucan crossing on the CS7 earlier this week, realising that if I dismounted I could have walked across the empty road perfectly legally yet crossing on the bike before the green bike appeared would be an infraction, and saying ''sod this for a cycle superhighway'' before cycling over. Stopping at an empty junction on a cycle superhighway where a pedestrian can cross but a cyclist can't because of a control system devised to restrict a danger that cyclists don't represent is simply too ridiculously illogical for my simple mind to accept. There, I've said it!)

deptfordmarmoset

Jean le pantalon a dit*:

For those who know the area, it is the junction travelling south where Brixton Rd crosses Camberwell New Road where I thought that chap was wise to RLJ. That set of lights is a nightmare as they are a good 20 metres or so away from the actual junction and if you want to go straight on you have to dice with fast moving cars who may well wish to turn left across your path (not to mention that the drivers who frequent that junction are far from the best).

I know that junction well - it's within the zone where Peckham Rules still apply. Peckham Rules vary according to mode of transport: the first rule in a motorised vehicle is follow the Myway Code, the first rule with any other form of transport is follow whichever is your best survival strategy.

*sorry, Jonny_Trousers, your name is even sillier in French than in English.

jonny_trousers

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

I know that junction well - it's within the zone where Peckham Rules still apply. Peckham Rules vary according to mode of transport: the first rule in a motorised vehicle is follow the Myway Code, the first rule with any other form of transport is follow whichever is your best survival strategy.

*sorry, Jonny_Trousers, your name is even sillier in French than in English.

Ha! I've used that version before when I wanted to come across all suave like. I toyed with the Swedish, Jon Byxor, for a while, but it just wasn't working.

Anyway, you've summed up my feelings for that particular junction, and the drivers around there, very nicely; thank you!

Blue Meanie

There's this there humpbacked bridge on a nice little backroad shortcut that has lights, and a sign that requests "Cyclists and Equestrians Dismount".
Do you think I'm safer pushing my bike over the bridge or quickly cycling it?

Why oh why, is there not a sign asking car driving, road users to push their vehicle over the bridge?

JamieW

Sure u might have seen this but have a look at this proper rlj'in

http://www.digave.com/videos/#top

W1

Must....resist....urge.....to argue.

hatbeard

W1 wrote:

Must....resist....urge.....to argue.

new years resolution?

notsoblue

W1 wrote:

Must....resist....urge.....to argue.

You can rlj for safety
Privatised healthcare is a bad thing
Free further education is a good thing
Up is up
Black is black
Hybrids are just generally a disappointing compromise whichever way you look at it.

dhope

notsoblue wrote:

W1 wrote:

Must....resist....urge.....to argue.

You can rlj for safety
Privatised healthcare is a bad thing
Free further education is a good thing
Up is up
Black is black
Hybrids are just generally a disappointing compromise whichever way you look at it.

But people do it to save time.
Even for not necessary procedures?
But who pays for useless courses?
Depends which way you look.
Grey is the new black.
Yeah.

MonkeyMonster

Greg66 wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

I'm just starting to wonder if there might be occasions when it is actually wise to carefully RLJ and I may consider doing so myself in future.

Your thoughts?
.

There are plainly occasion s when it wise to RLJ.

If, for example, Sharkopus, Jaws or The Mighty Kong are chasing you, you'd be a fool not to RLJ.

There are probably other occasions too.

Even more so if the Might Kong is riding Jaws...

DonDaddyD

Clever Pun wrote:

I'd like to out 'rlj for safety' as the utter horseshit it is

you come to a ped crossing it's red there is no one around you go through it, nothing to do with safety, it's about not wanting to stop

This.

There is always going to be a circumstantial scenario where it may be safer to RLJ (like getting out the way of an ambulance.

But traffic lights are there to regulate traffic flow and increase safety. To not follow them is to reduce the effectiveness of traffic flow and decrease safety (not always but more often than not).

Traffic lights didn't somehow suddenly become wrong and we should all ignore them.

Aguila

Does Weadmire still come on here?

He was the only reason this was entertaining last time.

W1

notsoblue wrote:

W1 wrote:

Must....resist....urge.....to argue.

You can rlj for safety
Privatised healthcare is a bad thing
Free further education is a good thing
Up is up
Black is black
Hybrids are just generally a disappointing compromise whichever way you look at it.

Right, that's it. I'm off to kick a poor person, having slapped them to the ground with a stack of new £50 notes.

Aguila

http://weadmire.net/tshirt/traffic-lights-t-shirt/

There it is! Love it!

Clever Pun

I was inturpted last night, my point was to include

if you rlj when it's convienient stop hiding behind it's safer to do so. just stop being a hypocrite and say you rlj and stop trying to justify your actions with blinkers

You choose to do what you do, good luck

rick_chasey

Police have been out every day this week looking for RLJs at the BofE Royal Exchange Junction, by the way.

jonginge

Rick Chasey wrote:

Police have been out every day this week looking for RLJs at the BofE Royal Exchange Junction, by the way.

Careful, now. See here for details: http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12749891&start=60

rick_chasey

JonGinge wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Police have been out every day this week looking for RLJs at the BofE Royal Exchange Junction, by the way.

Careful, now. See here for details: http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12749891&start=60

I haven't said they're still there now, only that they have been.

jonny_trousers

Clever Pun wrote:

I was inturpted last night, my point was to include

if you rlj when it's convienient stop hiding behind it's safer to do so. just stop being a hypocrite and say you rlj and stop trying to justify your actions with blinkers

You choose to do what you do, good luck

But what if you really did just RLJ when you felt your safety would be compromised by staying put? What if you were absolutely certain that you were in no danger of harming yourself or others by doing so?

Most junctions are fine, but there are a fair few where I'm sure cyclists were not considered at all when they were being planned.

Perhaps RLJing for safety is like taking the odd puff of a joint: you feel you can keep it under control, but before you know it you are offering hand relief to sailors simply to fund your crack habit (or deliberately riding over small children at pedestrian crossings just so you can shave half a second off your journey time)

Clever Pun

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Perhaps RLJing for safety is like taking the odd puff of a joint: you feel you can keep it under control, but before you know it you are offering hand relief to sailors simply to fund your crack habit (or deliberately riding over small children at pedestrian crossings just so you can shave half a second off your journey time)

Nice

W1

ENOUGH.

If anyone has anything to add to the 14 pages of debate here - http://static.bikeradar.com/commuting/f ... sc&start=0 - please do so. Otherwise we're all just repeating ourselves.