RLJing for safety

jonny_trousers

Just wondered what your thoughts were on it. I'm not quite back on the bike again after the accident, but plan to be very, very soon and I expect I'll be even more conscious of my personal safety than I was before.

Now, as I have sat there at the traffic lights in my car over the last few months I have watched cyclists routinely ride through red lights and have mentally tutted at their outrageous disregard for the law. Watching one guy yesterday, however, I couldn't help but think, you know what, he just did the safest possible manoeuvre. I've waited at this particular junction on my bike many times and it really does get a little tight as the lights turn to green. It goes straight onto a bend and the two lanes of traffic to the right can get quite aggressive in trying to position themselves for the next junction. The chap on his bike yesterday crept forwards through the red, he carefully looked to see that there was nothing coming and then he rode on, thus avoiding the scrum of traffic if he had waited for the lights to change.

I'm just starting to wonder if there might be occasions when it is actually wise to carefully RLJ and I may consider doing so myself in future.

Your thoughts?
.

notsoblue

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Just wondered what your thoughts were on it.

MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL

jonginge

*digs a bunker; dons hard-helmet; orders popcorn*

UndercoverElephant

This has been touted before. To sum up, yes you should, no you shouldn't, yes you should, no you shouldn't.

MonkeyMonster

JonGinge wrote:

*digs a bunker; dons hard-helmet; orders popcorn*

sweet I hope, if so I brought a bean bag and beers (for me, guiness for you)

Ian.B

Yea! First RLJ thread of the year!

tailwindhome

Too be fair to the OP it has been a while since we did this

bails87

Drivers pay road tax, road tax pays for traffic lights, therefore only car drivers are allowed to use traffic lights!

Paulie W

An old fashioned RLJ debate - by god it's been a while

jds_1981

Every time you RLJ, God kills a kitten.

W1

I had a pitchfork somewhere around here....





...ah, here it is!



BURN HIM

Kieran_Burns

sketchley

The law currently says you should stop at red light. Therefor you should stop even if not the saftest option for you at the time. Doesn't mean the law is correct. Stop Give Way Go maybe appropriate in some circumstances, see below article with Boris' opinion a few years back which also higlights that being legally allowed to jump red light when turning left might cut down on HGV deaths.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... s-boris.do

Greg T

Cyclists should pay road tax

bails87

It's perfectly safe if you're wearing a helmet.

jonny_trousers

Sketchley wrote:

Stop Give Way Go maybe appropriate in some circumstances

Agreed.

DonDaddyD

If you RLJ in the middle o' the sticks and no one is around to see it, is it still wrong?

As for the OP, yes it is wrong, what the cyclist did was bad and dangerous. if he got caught he'd deserve a fine.

Would I do it. I've been known to.

sketchley

Also, while it maybe safer in some circumstances to RLJ like in the OP, motorists who see this may then start ranting "bloody cyclists always jumping red lights" which may in turn translate over time to the road rage and assault incidents that we see often in CAM footage on youtube. So not safer for your fellow cyclists.

My opinion is that the law say stop, so you stop. If you disagree we live in a democracy so compaign for a change in the law.

gbsahne001

DonDaddyD wrote:

If you RLJ in the middle o' the sticks and no one is around to see it, is it still wrong?

As for the OP, yes it is wrong, what the cyclist did was bad and dangerous. if he got caught he'd deserve a fine.

Would I do it. I've been known to.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

jonny_trousers

DonDaddyD wrote:

As for the OP, yes it is wrong, what the cyclist did was bad and dangerous. if he got caught he'd deserve a fine.

As far as I can see he was only 'wrong' in as far as he broke the law, which, let's face it, we probably all do to a lesser or greater extent from time to time. As for what he did being 'dangerous', I think it was quite the opposite. The road he crossed illegally is very straight and very long and he had an excellent view of any oncoming traffic. If he had waited for the lights to turn green he would have been stuck among some pretty tightly packed traffic swinging round a bend. He took his time and rode sensibly, he did not just shoot out without looking. I will not argue with your fine point, though: you break the law, you get caught, you have to accept the consequenses - annoying though they may sometimes be.

rolf_f

Is it OK to RLJ whilst riding clipless?

DonDaddyD

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

As for the OP, yes it is wrong, what the cyclist did was bad and dangerous. if he got caught he'd deserve a fine.

As far as I can see he was only 'wrong' in as far as he broke the law, which, let's face it, we probably all do to a lesser or greater extent from time to time. As for what he did being 'dangerous', I think it was quite the opposite. The road he crossed illegally is very straight and very long and he had an excellent view of any oncoming traffic. If he had waited for the lights to turn green he would have been stuck among some pretty tightly packed traffic swinging round a bend. He took his time and rode sensibly, he did not just shoot out without looking. I will not argue with your fine point, though: you break the law, you get caught, you have to accept the consequenses - annoying though they may sometimes be.

1). He broke the law and that's wrong.

1.5). There are those on this site who claim to have never broken the law (Sewingman, dilemma or mybreakfastconsisted)

2). By not obeying road traffic laws, i.e. going through a red light illegally he has become a danger to himself and others.

MrChuck

If he'd taken the lane would he still have been in a dangerous position?
I can sort of see that he might be better off going through given the position that he's put himself in (I'm assuming he filtered to the front on the left?) but I don't see it's a justification for it really.

jonny_trousers

DonDaddyD wrote:

1). He broke the law and that's wrong.

Sure, but there are degrees of 'wrong' where law breaking is concerned.

DonDaddyD wrote:

2). By not obeying road traffic laws, i.e. going through a red light illegally he has become a danger to himself and others.

In the particular case I gave as an example I would have to disagree. The cyclist made a judgement that, on reflection, seemed pretty sensible to me.

jonny_trousers

Sketchley wrote:

Also, while it maybe safer in some circumstances to RLJ like in the OP, motorists who see this may then start ranting "bloody cyclists always jumping red lights" which may in turn translate over time to the road rage and assault incidents that we see often in CAM footage on youtube. So not safer for your fellow cyclists.

Hmm, that's some pretty extreme extrapolation going on there. Another alternative: he waits as he should, lights turn to green, irate driver is held up by cyclist, driver thinks, 'bloody cyclists; they're always getting in the way' which may, over time, lead him into taking stupid risks to pass cyclists just so that he can get that tiny bit further ahead on the road (like we also often see on YouTube clips).

Jay dubbleU

gbsahne wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If you RLJ in the middle o' the sticks and no one is around to see it, is it still wrong?

As for the OP, yes it is wrong, what the cyclist did was bad and dangerous. if he got caught he'd deserve a fine.

Would I do it. I've been known to.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Yes of course it does - laws of physics still apply

Theory of evolution applies to RLJing - the stupid or careless won't survive to breed

deptfordmarmoset

I think I can safely say that I have never ever seen a single cyclist jump a red light that had been specifically installed to protect other road users from the dangers that cyclists represent. And while such lights might conceivably exist in places like Copenhagen or Amsterdam, I'm pretty sure that very few of us have ever seen anybody jump one.

sketchley

Good point well made.

I'm just fed up with meeting new people telling them I cycle to work and how long / quick I do it in only to be greated almost without exceptions with "how many red lights do you jump". Also whenever I hear people being critcal of cycling first of second point out of the mouth is about RLJs. IMO the perception of most London Motorists are that cyclists all jump red lights and therefor are not entitlted to be critical of any one elses driving habits.

rick_chasey

Only people who ride Campagnolo, sorry, Campag, no, sorry, Campy, jump red lights.

Shimano and SRAM riders don't clearly. Unless they don't wear a helmet, which case, they might do.

Unless they ride schwalbe marathons obviously. Then they're bastards.

They're even more likely to RLJ if they don't fix inner tubes but just replace them. Obviously. Because RLJing isn't green, even if you have to use your breaks when you don't RLJ.

If you believe in that.

notsoblue

Sketchley wrote:

Good point well made.

I'm just fed up with meeting new people telling them I cycle to work and how long / quick I do it in only to be greated almost without exceptions with "how many red lights do you jump". Also whenever I hear people being critcal of cycling first of second point out of the mouth is about RLJs. IMO the perception of most London Motorists are that cyclists all jump red lights and therefor are not entitlted to be critical of any one elses driving habits.

Being sactimonious about other people's riding habits won't help with this. Also, anyone who believes that *all* cyclists jump red lights and as such don't deserve space on the road or to request better facilities is quite plainly an idiot.

MrChuck

notsoblue wrote:

anyone who believes that *all* cyclists jump red lights and as such don't deserve space on the road or to request better facilities is quite plainly an idiot.

You can dismiss them as idiots but it doesn't change the fact that there are people out there like that, and a lot of them are behind the wheel.