Most talented rider of the past 5 years.

timoid.

In a world where nobody cheated, Evans and Gilbert would be kings.

In the real world Contador and Cancellara are the most impressive

dougzz

wicked wrote:

All of the posters saying Evans can I ask why? Never won a GT, could not even beat Sastre for crying out loud.
Is it because he is supposedly "clean"? Who says he is? Might be charged up to the eyeballs for all we know, probably is.

In my eyes it's motorcus. Never seen anyone demolish his competitors quite so comprehensively.

+1 and then some.

If the purpose of a race is to win, and Mr Contador has 5 wins in the most prestigious stage races, and a host of wins in other races, how does anyone justify Evans as being more talented? If you you consider one day races as more important, how do you promote Evans above Cancellara or Boonen? Surely talent is measured by trophies?

PS. The above is based on honouring Rick's final paragraph in the original post.

RichN95.

dougzz wrote:

If the purpose of a race is to win, and Mr Contador has 5 wins in the most prestigious stage races, and a host of wins in other races, how does anyone justify Evans as being more talented? If you you consider one day races as more important, how do you promote Evans above Cancellara or Boonen? Surely talent is measured by trophies?

PS. The above is based on honouring Rick's final paragraph in the original post.

I think it comes from Evans having a clean reputation. (Whether this is deserved or not, we don't really know). A lot of posters pointedly said he was the most 'naturally' talented.

I think only him and Schleck have been on a GT podium and won big one day races in the last 5 years without a doping scandal. And Andy hasn't won the MTB World Cup.

eh

A few to throw into the mix considering we are discussing last 5 years.

1) Boonen, OK lean last couple of years but was awesome prior to that.

2) Cunego decent-ish GT rides, but also 2 Lombardy wins, 1 Amstel Gold, 2 Vuelta stage wins, 2nd place World champs, plus podiums at L-B-L and FW.

Sammy Sanchez can do a heck of a lot, but doesn't quite win enough for me.

Basso is also class but again hasn't won enough for me, albeit 2 GT wins is quality.

Oh and what about Vino :evil:

frenchfighter

Evans - ask this questions 1.5 - 2yrs ago and few people would have mentioned his name. Only recently have people come to like and admire him. Previously he was derided often.

The CQ Ranking tables and the UCI tables are a fairly simple but good enough way of analysing talent.

CQ's last 5yrs:

2010
1. (28) NIBALI Vincenzo LIQ 14/11/1984 2203
2. (2) CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 06/12/1982 2092
3. (36) RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin KAT 12/05/1979 1976
4. (5) GILBERT Philippe OLO 05/07/1982 1842
5. (18) SANCHEZ GIL Luis Leon GCE 24/11/1983 1667
6. (3) EVANS Cadel BMC 14/02/1977 1619
7. (9) FARRAR Tyler GRM 02/06/1984 1593
8. (7) SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 05/02/1978 1576
9. (8) CANCELLARA Fabian SAX 18/03/1981 1559
10. (10) GREIPEL Andre THR 16/07/1982 1457
11. (21) GESINK Robert RAB 31/05/1986 1406
12. (57) SCARPONI Michele AND 25/09/1979 1353
13. (139) VINOKOUROV Alexandre AST 16/09/1973 1318
14. (4) CAVENDISH Mark THR 21/05/1985 1241
15. (6) BOASSON HAGEN Edvald SKY 17/05/1987 1216

2009
1. (1) VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro GCE 25/04/1980 2494
2. (2) CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 06/12/1982 2272
3. (3) EVANS Cadel SIL 14/02/1977 1912
4. (21) CAVENDISH Mark THR 21/05/1985 1733
5. (9) GILBERT Philippe SIL 05/07/1982 1720
6. (105) BOASSON HAGEN Edvald THR 17/05/1987 1615
7. (32) SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 05/02/1978 1584
8. (4) CANCELLARA Fabian SAX 18/03/1981 1516
9. (174) FARRAR Tyler GRM 02/06/1984 1434
10. (13) GREIPEL Andre THR 16/07/1982 1391
11. (12) BOONEN Tom QST 15/10/1980 1377
12. (28) MENCHOV Denis RAB 25/01/1978 1362
13. (6) CUNEGO Damiano LAM 19/09/1981 1291
14. (36) HUSHOVD Thor CTT 18/01/1978 1287
15. (57) SCHLECK Andy SAX 10/06/1985 1246

2008
1. (3) VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro GCE 25/04/1980 2662
2. (5) CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto AST 06/12/1982 2520
3. (1) EVANS Cadel SIL 14/02/1977 1879
4. (24) CANCELLARA Fabian CSC 18/03/1981 1860
5. (4) REBELLIN Davide GST 09/08/1971 1807
6. (11) CUNEGO Damiano LAM 19/09/1981 1800
7. (13) LEIPHEIMER Levi AST 24/10/1973 1787
8. (16) KIRCHEN Kim THR 03/07/1978 1502
9. (48) GILBERT Philippe FDJ 05/07/1982 1457
10. (23) BALLAN Alessandro LAM 06/11/1979 1381
11. (30) SASTRE CANDIL Carlos CSC 22/04/1975 1353
12. (9) BOONEN Tom QST 15/10/1980 1328
13. (281) GREIPEL Andre THR 16/07/1982 1241
14. (6) FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar RAB 15/02/1976 1186
15. (7) SCHLECK Fränk CSC 15/04/1980 1154

2007
1. (13) EVANS Cadel PRL 14/02/1977 1979
2. (57) DI LUCA Danilo LIQ 02/01/1976 1959
3. (2) VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro GCE 25/04/1980 1897
4. (21) REBELLIN Davide GST 09/08/1971 1783
5. (66) CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto DSC 06/12/1982 1632
6. (25) FREIRE GOMEZ Oscar RAB 15/02/1976 1619
7. (11) SCHLECK Fränk CSC 15/04/1980 1531
8. (60) MENCHOV Denis RAB 25/01/1978 1522
9. (1) BOONEN Tom QSI 15/10/1980 1479
10. (4) SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 05/02/1978 1478
11. (10) CUNEGO Damiano LAM 19/09/1981 1435
12. (19) VOIGT Jens CSC 17/09/1971 1386
13. (24) LEIPHEIMER Levi DSC 24/10/1973 1325
14. (3) BETTINI Paolo QSI 01/04/1974 1276
15. (23) PETACCHI Alessandro MRM 03/01/1974 1274

2006
1. (1) BOONEN Tom QSI 15/10/1980 2559
2. (14) VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro CEI 25/04/1980 2469
3. (13) BETTINI Paolo QSI 01/04/1974 2012
4. (68) SANCHEZ GONZALEZ Samuel EUS 05/02/1978 1731
5. (11) ZABEL Erik MRM 07/07/1970 1724
6. (5) MCEWEN Robbie DVL 24/06/1972 1712
7. (9) BASSO Ivan - 26/11/1977 1642
8. (20) HUSHOVD Thor C.A 18/01/1978 1629
9. (57) SCHUMACHER Stefan GST 21/07/1981 1394
10. (8) CUNEGO Damiano LAM 19/09/1981 1388
11. (29) SCHLECK Fränk CSC 15/04/1980 1363
12. (6) VINOKOUROV Alexandre LSW 16/09/1973 1359
13. (35) EVANS Cadel DVL 14/02/1977 1327
14. (36) CANCELLARA Fabian CSC 18/03/1981 1271
15. (108) BALLAN Alessandro LAM 06/11/1979 1271

New generation coming through in the last 3yrs or so. EBH, still very young, didn't race much last year and is still right up there in 2010.

FJS

Talented the most?

Tom Danielson, Dominique Cornu, Thomas Dekker, Yaroslav Popovych, Linus Gerdemann

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

The CQ Ranking tables and the UCI tables are a fairly simple but good enough way of analysing talent.

Indeed. So 07,08,09 Evans in the top 3 everytime.

iainf72

frenchfighter wrote:

The CQ Ranking tables and the UCI tables are a fairly simple but good enough way of analysing talent.

Indeed. So 07,08,09 Evans in the top 3 everytime.

Rodrego Hernandez

Timoid. wrote:

In a world where nobody cheated, Evans and Gilbert would be kings.

In the real world Contador and Cancellara are the most impressive

Isn't that the sad truth!

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

The CQ Ranking tables and the UCI tables are a fairly simple but good enough way of analysing talent.

Indeed. So 07,08,09 Evans in the top 3 everytime.

I never said he wasn't good. I was a backer. Just commenting on the change in opinion of quite a few.

rick_chasey

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

For the same reason I don't think you're a serial killer. He universally has a good reputation and there's not a scrap of evidence against him.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

dougzz wrote:

If the purpose of a race is to win, and Mr Contador has 5 wins in the most prestigious stage races, and a host of wins in other races, how does anyone justify Evans as being more talented? If you you consider one day races as more important, how do you promote Evans above Cancellara or Boonen? Surely talent is measured by trophies?

PS. The above is based on honouring Rick's final paragraph in the original post.

I think it comes from Evans having a clean reputation. (Whether this is deserved or not, we don't really know). A lot of posters pointedly said he was the most 'naturally' talented.

I think only him and Schleck have been on a GT podium and won big one day races in the last 5 years without a doping scandal. And Andy hasn't won the MTB World Cup.

For me it is more that Evans is the rider that can currently win races on more types of event. Bertie is undoubtably talented even allowing for the current black clouds over him. For me talent is about more than winning GTs where climbing skills are king with an ability to TT reasonably well. On the variety reason for me it is a toss up between Evans and Gilbert. Gilbert probably has the best all round talent for one day racing but Evans has the potential to win lots of one dayers and a GT, only bad luck has prevented him from a GT overall so far. I still think Nico Roche has the potential to be the majority answer if this is asked in another 5 years though.

frenchfighter

On that basis Pross, Valverde should be your top pick.

Pross

No it shouldn't he's a proven cheat.

wicked

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

I heard he was not so "naturally talented" when in MTB.

rick_chasey

Valvarde's one of the smarter top level riders.

He can win when he's not at his best.

josame

Gentlemen this debate is over....

Linus Gerdeman

80% of success is turning up. W Allen

rick_chasey

wicked wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

I heard he was not so "naturally talented" when in MTB.

Do tell.

wicked

Rick Chasey wrote:

wicked wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

I heard he was not so "naturally talented" when in MTB.

Do tell.

It was in 2008 when the tour was on. Out for a club ride and I commented that if pip as you call him won at least he looked clean , a local racer said he knew his soigneur during his MTB days and he told him he was 'enhanced' shall we say.

Could be complete rubbish but the local racer was adamant and not the type to BS.

rick_chasey

wicked wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

wicked wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Why do people think Pip is spankingly clean by the way?

I heard he was not so "naturally talented" when in MTB.

Do tell.

It was in 2008 when the tour was on. Out for a club ride and I commented that if pip as you call him won at least he looked clean , a local racer said he knew his soigneur during his MTB days and he told him he was 'enhanced' shall we say.

Could be complete rubbish but the local racer was adamant and not the type to BS.

*smug*

iainf72

We know Pip is Pip Gilbert, yeah?

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

We know Pip is Pip Gilbert, yeah?

That's who I'm refering to when I say Pip....

iainf72

Rick Chasey wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

We know Pip is Pip Gilbert, yeah?

That's who I'm refering to when I say Pip....

Did I miss his mountain biking career?

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

We know Pip is Pip Gilbert, yeah?

That's who I'm refering to when I say Pip....

Did I miss his mountain biking career?

Haha, I did think the same. Then dismissed the thought out of hand...

wicked

Ooops sorry! I thought you were on about pip as in squeak. Anyway..............

iainf72

wicked wrote:

Ooops sorry! I thought you were on about pip as in squeak. Anyway..............

The few folks I've spoken to involved in pro cycling are pretty confident Cadel is on the level. And he's never even been vaugely linked to anything dodgy - Aside from being on T-Mobile and the comments in his book about that team would indicate he didn't really have much to do with them.

BTW, for those who've not read his book, it's worth a read. The writing is a bit odd at times but the story is a good one.

Tom Butcher

DIfficult one when so many big winners' records are tainted by doping suspensions. There are lots of real talents - Cancellera, Cav, Boonen (who I think has a lot more to come), Gilbert, Armstrong, Contador, Bettini. Looking at riders who can cross over from grand tours to single day racing though the list is a bit thinner. Despite the doping ban I think I'd go for Valverde - I believe he was riding clean in recent years - maybe more wishful thinking than anything else though his performances never appeared super human. I'm ruling out DiLuca because of the doping so maybe slightly hypocritical to allow Valverde but there you go.

I like Evans and he's won me round in recent years with his tactics but I just think apart from a grand tour win which he probably has been unlucky with he's made the best of his talent and all credit to him for that.

rick_chasey

It's funny. Untill 2009, I really hated Evans and put him on the same shelf as Leipheimer.


Funny how Andy Schleck isn't featuring that highly.

Didn't pro-cycling put him on the front page as the next Lance Armstrong?

Yellow Peril

It pains me to say it but on strict interpretation of the rules of this thread I'd have to put Hushovd ahead of Cav.

Over the last 5 years as a TdF stage winner, TdF jersey winner and world champ perhaps he could make a better claim than some of those already considered here?????