flashing your lights at other drivers

welshkev
welshkev Posts: 9,690
edited January 2011 in The Crudcatcher
i'm not sure if this has been done before but here goes.

i caught the end of a news story yesterday that said a guy had been taken to court because he indicated to other drivers to slow down when there was a speed camera.

i think this could be an old one where it was the lorry driver who made hand signals but i'm not sure.

so in summary, is it acceptable to signal other drivers that there's a speed camera ahead?

discuss :D
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Comments

  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12749891

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12749825

    The main thing to take away from this, as I've already said, is:
    Newspaper wrote:
    Driver, 64, who flashed headlights to warn fellow motorists of speed trap hauled to court and fined for 'obstructing police'
    He claimed the officer involved was a ‘Rambo character’ who was acting like ‘Judge Dredd'

    It's not like I was in some kind of Death Race, this is a ridiculous Police Story, they've destroyed civil liberties like a Demolition Man. There's no place to hide from these people who are just after your (Tango and) Cash, it's like a Cop Land. I shan't be driving again. When I go to the airport to fly to Las Vegas I'm going to Get Carter to call a Taxi (3) so I can be Driven there before heading off to Escape To Victory and live The Good Life. The response was completely Over The Top, it won't long until you end up in the Lock Up and there'll be No Place To Hide. Now Stop! Or My Mum Will Shoot.

    Boo yah!
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    i thought it may have been done before, it's just i saw it on the news yesterday

    oop :oops: :lol:
  • El Capitano
    El Capitano Posts: 6,400
    TBH, it's not uncommon for men "of a certain age" to be fined for flashing...
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  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    are you admitting something there el cap? :wink::lol:
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,816
    This case goes against established case law (Glendinning) that should make it almost impossible to secure a conviction for 'obstructing' by flashing drivers.

    A decent defense would have seen it off, the driver is appealing and it will almost certainly be thrown out.

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • El Capitano
    El Capitano Posts: 6,400
    welshkev wrote:
    are you admitting something there el cap? :wink::lol:

    Nope... :oops:
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  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    The Beginner wrote:
    This case goes against established case law (Glendinning) that should make it almost impossible to secure a conviction for 'obstructing' by flashing drivers.

    A decent defense would have seen it off, the driver is appealing and it will almost certainly be thrown out.

    Simon

    One of the law types on the other bits of the forum has suggested it was as much to do with the fact that he was being an antagonistic idiot and wasting police time by arguing, therefore taking the officer away from his work checking for speeders that led to the conviction.

    That and the fact he's a big-headed antagonistic idiot so decided to represent himself in court. So missed the previous case. So couldn't cite precedent for it not being 'obstructing'.

    The way I see it, it's like following the police around when they're doing drug raids and shouting through a megaphone that the police are creeping up to a suspected dealers' house.

    I've got to wonder if he just did it once, or if he was driving up and down warning people repeatedly.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    bails87 wrote:
    The Beginner wrote:
    This case goes against established case law (Glendinning) that should make it almost impossible to secure a conviction for 'obstructing' by flashing drivers.

    A decent defense would have seen it off, the driver is appealing and it will almost certainly be thrown out.

    Simon

    One of the law types on the other bits of the forum has suggested it was as much to do with the fact that he was being an antagonistic idiot and wasting police time by arguing, therefore taking the officer away from his work checking for speeders that led to the conviction.

    That and the fact he's a big-headed antagonistic idiot so decided to represent himself in court. So missed the previous case. So couldn't cite precedent for it not being 'obstructing'.

    The way I see it, it's like following the police around when they're doing drug raids and shouting through a megaphone that the police are creeping up to a suspected dealers' house.
    I've got to wonder if he just did it once, or if he was driving up and down warning people repeatedly.

    i see where you're coming from with that, but it is slightly different isn't it (IMO). are people who are doing 36 mph instaed of 30 mph (for example) in the same category as drug dealers really? :?
  • El Capitano
    El Capitano Posts: 6,400
    welshkev wrote:
    bails87 wrote:
    The Beginner wrote:
    This case goes against established case law (Glendinning) that should make it almost impossible to secure a conviction for 'obstructing' by flashing drivers.

    A decent defense would have seen it off, the driver is appealing and it will almost certainly be thrown out.

    Simon

    One of the law types on the other bits of the forum has suggested it was as much to do with the fact that he was being an antagonistic idiot and wasting police time by arguing, therefore taking the officer away from his work checking for speeders that led to the conviction.

    That and the fact he's a big-headed antagonistic idiot so decided to represent himself in court. So missed the previous case. So couldn't cite precedent for it not being 'obstructing'.

    The way I see it, it's like following the police around when they're doing drug raids and shouting through a megaphone that the police are creeping up to a suspected dealers' house.
    I've got to wonder if he just did it once, or if he was driving up and down warning people repeatedly.

    i see where you're coming from with that, but it is slightly different isn't it (IMO). are people who are doing 36 mph instaed of 30 mph (for example) in the same category as drug dealers really? :?

    A certain former North Wales Chief of Police thought so! :shock:

    Although I think he likened them to murderers or something...
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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    El Capitano wrote:
    A certain former North Wales Chief of Police thought so! :shock:

    Although I think he likened them to murderers or something...
    Met him a few times. I'd actually liken him to a f*****g moron. Quite possibly the dumbest human being I've ever met.
  • welshkev
    welshkev Posts: 9,690
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    El Capitano wrote:
    A certain former North Wales Chief of Police thought so! :shock:

    Although I think he likened them to murderers or something...
    Met him a few times. I'd actually liken him to a f*****g moron. Quite possibly the dumbest human being I've ever met.

    :lol:
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    welshkev wrote:
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    El Capitano wrote:
    A certain former North Wales Chief of Police thought so! :shock:

    Although I think he likened them to murderers or something...
    Met him a few times. I'd actually liken him to a f*****g moron. Quite possibly the dumbest human being I've ever met.

    :lol:

    Yeah, but if he was the best North Wales had to offer..... :wink:
    It's a good job you're in Worth Nails yeehaa :lol:

    And no, they're not in the same category as drug dealers, but they are breaking the law, the princple is exactly the same.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    The principle of "breaking the law" might be the same, but the methods, and consequences are totally different.
  • bails87
    bails87 Posts: 12,998
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    The principle of "breaking the law" might be the same, but the methods, and consequences are totally different.
    Not sure I agree, and even so, I'm not sure how that stops it being an valid comparison.

    He was warning people who were breaking the law not to commit an offence now because the police are looking. If he was a road safety campaigner and he was putting up speed camera signs to make people slow down then the motives would be failry decent and I'd think it was wrong. But he doesn't give a crap about road safety, he just wanted to stop people breaking the law from being caught.
    MTB/CX

    "As I said last time, it won't happen again."
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    bails87 wrote:
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    The principle of "breaking the law" might be the same, but the methods, and consequences are totally different.
    Not sure I agree, and even so, I'm not sure how that stops it being an valid comparison.

    He was warning people who were breaking the law not to commit an offence now because the police are looking. If he was a road safety campaigner and he was putting up speed camera signs to make people slow down then the motives would be failry decent and I'd think it was wrong. But he doesn't give a crap about road safety, he just wanted to stop people breaking the law from being caught.
    Surely if the police (well, not the police round here, but the people doing the speed camera thing - I think it's a separate body, or something) have brightly coloured vehicles, that is to warn drivers that there is a speed camera there. (Ignoring the fact that they often hide in horse boxes etc).
    Same as GATSOs painted bright yellow so they can be seen.
    Why is that different to someone flashing their lights to let someone know there's a policeman there?

    I find it quite frightening that there are people out there who would see someone close to the speed limit, and think "fugg 'em, it's their fault".
    Isn't it just good human nature to warn them of the speed cops?
  • sheepsteeth
    sheepsteeth Posts: 17,418
    as far as i cn tell, the job of speed cameras is to slow people down in the areas they have been sited.

    if a man flashes his lights to warn you there is a camera along your route, you slow down:

    job done.

    the bloke got fined to try and recoup some of the monies he cost the police who lost out on a couple of speeding fines.
    Harry von Big Sticks
  • Kitty
    Kitty Posts: 2,844
    I had about five people flash me today to warn of a speed camera, the car in front I'm guessing would of been fined if they'd not had the warning. I've lived in this area all my life though and know where they set up so I don't speed in them areas. Not that I ever really speed anyway, I'm a slow woman driver of course.
    Kitty's World
  • sheepsteeth
    sheepsteeth Posts: 17,418
    as it happens, i got a speeding ticket for the first time a few months ago after driving for about 10 years. (74mph but in a van on a dual carriageway where i didnt realise i should hve been driving at 60 :oops: )

    im even more careful about my speed now so maybe speeding fines are a good idea for some people.
    Harry von Big Sticks
  • El Capitano
    El Capitano Posts: 6,400
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    El Capitano wrote:
    A certain former North Wales Chief of Police thought so! :shock:

    Although I think he likened them to murderers or something...
    Met him a few times. I'd actually liken him to a f*****g moron. Quite possibly the dumbest human being I've ever met.

    Interestingly enough, the last time I was caught for speeding was in North Wales - A543 into Denbigh. Hit a 30 zone doing well over 50. Fortunatly I was on my road bike and only got a caution...
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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,965
    bails87 wrote:
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    The principle of "breaking the law" might be the same, but the methods, and consequences are totally different.
    Not sure I agree, and even so, I'm not sure how that stops it being an valid comparison.

    He was warning people who were breaking the law not to commit an offence now because the police are looking. If he was a road safety campaigner and he was putting up speed camera signs to make people slow down then the motives would be failry decent and I'd think it was wrong. But he doesn't give a crap about road safety, he just wanted to stop people breaking the law from being caught.
    Bails, I reckon you've been spending too much time listening to the car hating posse on the commuter forum :wink: The old git probably brought it on himself by being lippy with the copper but if he'd used the case law available he'd have got off as there was no case to answer. The cars he flashed weren't speeding so what crime was he stopping the cops from dealing with then ?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    Quite right. It's like seeing some dodgy geezer who looks like he's about to steal someone's bike, and telling him not to.
    If he then goes on to NOT steal it, where's the harm?
  • Andy
    Andy Posts: 8,207
    I only flash my lights when I demand someone moves out my way.
  • IcarusGreen
    IcarusGreen Posts: 1,486
    Away from the speeding,

    my wife was flashed by an oncoming driver last night which temporally blinded her from seeing the road, this meant she had less chance of seeing the dog which the on coming driver was warning her of. The result is one injured dog :cry: and and badly dented car. :evil:
    + 1001 posts reset by the cruel cruel moderators!

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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,965
    IcarusGreen wrote:
    Away from the speeding,

    my wife was flashed by an oncoming driver last night which temporally blinded her from seeing the road, this meant she had less chance of seeing the dog which the on coming driver was warning her of. The result is one injured dog :cry: and and badly dented car. :evil:
    Not sure why they felt the need to do that :?: Flashing your lights should only be for one of two reasons:
    1. Flashing oncoming traffic (meaning: careful, there's a speed trap ahead of you)
    2. Flashing the car in front (meaning: speed up or get out of my way, you slow tw@t)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,816
    With Stevo on that, plus the third one which is

    3.Flashing a car waiting to pull out of a side turning across your path (meaning: dont pull out the side turning or I'll hit you OR pull out the side turning I'm letting you out)

    Sort of car russian roulette with worse odds!

    Simon
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • El Capitano
    El Capitano Posts: 6,400
    Andy wrote:
    I only flash my lights when I demand someone moves out my way.

    I thought you had a Honda, not a BMW?
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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,665
    It's quite annoying when you're driving along an unlit backroad, then pull over to let somebody through the other way, and they flash their lights to thank you.
    Complete blindness for a few seconds yeah, that's a great way of saying thanks!
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    El Capitano wrote:
    Andy wrote:
    I only flash my lights when I demand someone moves out my way.

    I thought you had a Honda, not a BMW?

    Audi drivers are the new BMW drivers. BMW drivers are now awesome.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • andyrm
    andyrm Posts: 550
    I actually got stopped for doing this very thing a couple of years ago in Hertfordshire. The miserable copper up the road from the trap flagged me down and asked why he had seen me flashing everyone as they approached the corner. My reply "I live near here and know how slippy that corner can get so was warning them to be careful". You could see he was gutted that he wasn't intelligent enough to come back at me with anything and I was given a little bit of a lecture and told to be on my way.

    Sounds like the guy in question was a bit too honest in his initial answer and then got belligerent. Given speed traps are legally only meant to be in danger spots, if you say you are flashing motorists to warn them of a potential hazard spot, it would be very hard to press any charges as hazard perception is such a subjective thing. :wink:
  • starkee
    starkee Posts: 143
    sheepsteeth wrote:
    as it happens, i got a speeding ticket for the first time a few months ago after driving for about 10 years. (74mph but in a van on a dual carriageway where i didnt realise i should hve been driving at 60 :oops: )

    im even more careful about my speed now so maybe speeding fines are a good idea for some people.

    I got a caution for the same thing ( after following a Police car at a steady 70 for 5 miles ) i argued i was totally unaware that there was such a restriction, to which the officer agreed that some are aware others are not and some officers enforce it more than he was going to ! :?

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