Channel 4 Tonight 21:00 hrs
Comments
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Who does his shopping for him ?
How can he afford to feed himself that much ?
Ok, I don't agree with this but if he is entitled to sue the NHS (assuming there are grounds for that), but if he does, then shouldn't the NHS have the right to refuse him a service after being sued ?0 -
johnfinch wrote:Chip \'oyler wrote:But I watched the show with an open mind and understood that he did have some underlying 'emotional' problems that cause him to overeat.
There are two people close to me who have suffered emotional neglect and blackmail in their childhood, and have turned to eating as their only way of escape - basically like some people turn to drugs and alcohol.
Now both adults, and out of the situation, they are finally, after over a decade of getting ever fatter, making some positive steps.
Although I agree with you that many obese people are simply greedy, or have crap parents who don't know how to feed them properly, there are some who really do need help (as you acknowledge).
Greedy? Seems an odd way of putting it. Gives me a mental image of a guy stockpiling junk food.0 -
Stick8267 wrote:Many people who are morbidly obese have underlying issues that lead to overeating but the answer is not surgery it is dealing with those issues. If you treat the depression then you can treat the eating. The biggest problem is the lack of belief, interest or investment in mental health support.
This, however, is different to people who are simply overweight because they cannot be bothered to look after themselves. These are the vast majority and for them fat is a lifestyle issue.
Interestingly the evidence would seem to suggest that while exercise is good for you in general it is very poor at shedding weight in comparison to calorie counting.
Eat less, weigh less. It really is that simple for the majority and pouring money in to bariatric surgery at the expense of other healthcare needs makes me furious!
Hope you never need care for anything......... sorry but that's an exceptionally arrogant viewpoint.
Where should the NHS money go, Junkies, Alcoholics, the 50 fag a day cancer sufferers, the massive number of managers that take money out of the front line care services because if the money was spent properly many of the issues we see with the NHS would disappear because they'll always find something other than solve the problems there are within the core services the NHS provides. My son has just graduated as a radiographer but cant get a job because everywhere is cutting back.......apart from the 10 new managers the local health service have just taken on at salaries of over £110K EACH .
So someone has a clinical intolerance to Carbohydrates, can't synthesise them properly and as a result it turns to fat, their weight balloons, they can't clinically do anything about it and Bariatric surgery becomes their only hope...... let the suffer......is that your answer. Unless you know and see enough of the issues surrounding some of these people you need a little more perspective.0 -
Twenty years as a doctor caring for patients in the NHS and four years as a clinical director managing a budget of £35M, including being involved in a Trust that was setting up a bariatric service, has given me something of a perspective on the delivery of healthcare!
Read my post again. People with real issues that make it difficult to manage their weight leading to morbid obesity should have appropriate help which is complex. Bariatric surgery will help them lose weight but will not address their problems which will simply come out another way. Deal with the problems and you deal with the weight. I would, btw, provide the necessary plastic surgery for skin folds after weight loss.
Most overweight people do not need mental health input or surgery, simply advice and self discipline, which can be taught and developed.
As for drug addicts, including smokers, they also need advice and self discipline and no I would not do a coronary bypass on a smoker that had not proved they had stopped. It is a waste of money in what is a fixed NHS budget that will not provide everything the public want and so has to be directed at what they need.
When my Trust set up the bariatric service it was at the expense of an expanded stroke unit that all the evidence suggests would have reduced mortality by 20%. What would you have spent the money on?0 -
What has always baffled me about weight loss surgery, and the case in the programme is no exception, is that basically it all comes down to eating less.
The guy goes into hospital and is put on a restricted diet to help him lose weight before the surgery, and it works. He loses weight. So why bother with costly (and dangerous! I wouldn't fancy 50/50 chances) surgery and not just continue on the diet?
All the surgery does is make the stomach smaller so that the patient will eat less. If a person can be disciplined enough to only eat as much as they are allowed because they have a band round their stomach, why cant they just get on with it anyway?
It seems to me that all/most of it is psychological and there has to be a better way of dealing with obesity.0 -
Stick8267 wrote:Twenty years as a doctor caring for patients in the NHS and four years as a clinical director managing a budget of £35M, including being involved in a Trust that was setting up a bariatric service, has given me something of a perspective on the delivery of healthcare!
Thanks for that, I'd much rather discuss a topic with someone from the position of knowing their background. I’ve read your post again today with a cooler head on, unfortunately yesterday my wife was harangued by a group of people she was with because they know she’s had surgery but have no idea of her background. My post was probably rather knee-jerk, something I try very hard to avoid. Please accept a humble apology.Read my post again. People with real issues that make it difficult to manage their weight leading to morbid obesity should have appropriate help which is complex. Bariatric surgery will help them lose weight but will not address their problems which will simply come out another way. Deal with the problems and you deal with the weight. I would, btw, provide the necessary plastic surgery for skin folds after weight loss.
Most overweight people do not need mental health input or surgery, simply advice and self discipline, which can be taught and developed.
As for drug addicts, including smokers, they also need advice and self discipline and no I would not do a coronary bypass on a smoker that had not proved they had stopped. It is a waste of money in what is a fixed NHS budget that will not provide everything the public want and so has to be directed at what they need.
Looking back through our families past I’ve become very sanguine about the whole healthcare system. Non clinical managers earning over £100K is a joke especially as these self same people, the financiers, the “management experts” are the ones who purposely put pressure on the salaries of the clinical staff.
Alcohol, Drugs and Smoking put a massive strain on the budgets of the NHS and in many cases our social and welfare states do nothing to help the problem. I do not feel that these people deserve the care they seem to get because they do nothing for themselves. Unfortunately the PC state just keeps throwing money at them.
The people I know through my wife are at the extreme end of the scale, worked at diets for years but got nowhere, are now finding out about intolerances to certain food groups that have precluded their ability to lose significant amounts of weight. I help out a little with their support group, self created by the way no NHS help, but I have had a falling out with someone who went through the whole process the ballooned again.When my Trust set up the bariatric service it was at the expense of an expanded stroke unit that all the evidence suggests would have reduced mortality by 20%. What would you have spent the money on?
This is the dichotomy that I believe only clinicians can sort out, not money managers but sitting overnight with my dad when he had his stroke a few years ago and his immediate aftercare I saw first hand how limited the resources are. I’m a believer that there is a place for all the needs to be catered for and that efficient use of the budgets and a proper review at the top end of our trusts would benefit the clinicians and the patients markedly.0 -
i am addicted to cycling its the freedom and the buzz i get from a 3 hour ride also i love to eatgoing downhill slowly0
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amaferanga wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:amaferanga wrote:To sue the NHS just ensures that there's even less money available to treat everyone else. Sure if the NHS really did mess up then sue them, but if this guy gets anything then it'll be an absolute f@cking joke.
He'll only get what he is and should be entitled to.
Can't see any reason why he shouldn't get precisely zero. No-one forced those 20,000 calories a day down his throat.
He shouldn't necessarily get more than the next person, but he certainly shouldn't get less.0 -
Obesity problems such as this generally have mental health issues at their root. Mental illness has been terribly stigmatised in the past, and judging from some of the responses on here, not a lot has changed.0
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bexley5200 wrote:i am addicted to cycling its the freedom and the buzz i get from a 3 hour ride also i love to eat
Your point being?0
