So we're all a little poorer today.

lancejambo

and to get back to the point public services will not see any benifit at all.

Defence cuts (affects me in afghanistan and those back home) thank you labour for sending me to that place as well as iraq

Police cuts

NHS less nurses(JOKE)

Road tax bound to increase

Trains prices increase because of less government finance

cannot think of anything else at the mo lol

AndyF16

Pross wrote:

garrynolan wrote:

The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!

Slightly pedantic and we all know what is meant - most people would say the rate of VAT has gone up 2.5%, it's an irrelevant argument really and as someone else pointed out no-one seemed to be making the same case when it went down.

Got to agree there Pross, it'd be like saying that VAT had gone up BY 100% (don't count it out yet ) would sound much worse than gone up TO 35%

lancejambo

So basically, you are a Tory supporter who wants to make sure the Tories win the next election.

Right, nothing to see here.

Yer i am but not hardcore. If they had done a good job i would say i aint a politician i tell the truth lol.

MarcBC

The average personal debt in the UK as of May 2010 (excluding mortgages) stood at £ 1.5 trillion or roughly £ 9,800 per person. All money which may in turn have been borrowed to allow us to borrow.

The goverment debt is £ 952 billion (Oct 2010) owed to the private sector or buyers of UK gilts.

There are only 13,000 people in the UK earning in excess of £ 1million a year against 21.7 million employed people in the UK. There are approx only 217,000 people earning over £ 150,000 pa. Sadly not enough to pay for every one elses debt by tax in the short or medium term, therefore everyone has to pitch in.

I don't give a toss who wants to blame each other on this, but sure as feck, running our lives on debt makes no sense to me at all. If one borrows money, one pays it back end of.

lancejambo

Roger that

rick_chasey

The question is, or at least it should be: is a VAT hike regressive?

Frank the tank

What you have to remember is we're all in it together :roll: , it's just that some of us are more "in it" than others.

We're in this mess due to the unscrupulous taking advantage of the gullible. Some fell into the trap easier than others, but rest assured the unscrupulous have lined their pockets sufficiently enough to ensure they're in the lifeboat whilst the vast majority are chin deep in a sea of sh1t.

MarcBC

Rick Chasey wrote:

The question is, or at least it should be: is a VAT hike regressive?

I did not see too many people saying "yippee" when VAT went to 15% in 2008, in fact I think a lot of people complained that 2.5% was a meaninless amount. Not sure why they are complaining now. It is only the same increase to 17.5% as the reduction to 15%.

verylonglegs

Shouldn't matter if we all saved something over the last decade just like the good sensible people that we are. Right?

sheffsimon

Frank the tank wrote:

What you have to remember is we're all in it together :roll: , it's just that some of us are more "in it" than others.

We're in this mess due to the unscrupulous taking advantage of the gullible. Some fell into the trap easier than others, but rest assured the unscrupulous have lined their pockets sufficiently enough to ensure they're in the lifeboat whilst the vast majority are chin deep in a sea of sh1t.

Are they? Dont know of anyone struggling particularly at present. Not saying nobody is, but "vast majority"??

Nuggs

verylonglegs wrote:

Shouldn't matter if we all saved something over the last decade just like the good sensible people that we are. Right?

And the same goes for the public purse too.

No war chest in times of econimic trouble = problems.

I think it was Keynes who said that recession is not the time for austerity in public spending...

rick_chasey

Nuggs wrote:

I think it was Keynes who said that recession is not the time for austerity in public spending...

Indeed it was. He also said booms were no time to spend either.

Spend against the cycle, not with it, he said.

nwallace

Aye, I just panic bought all the VAT attracting items in my Amazon wish list.

£350 of which £50 is vat at 17.5% or something (I can't remember exactly what the guy I asked to do the maths came up with) at 20% I would have paid all of £7 more...

Still I got to buy shit loads of stuff and cut my wish list down to only book.
I'm now banned from buying stuff until April, when it will be strictly 2nd hand and Books.

Frank the tank

SheffSimon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

What you have to remember is we're all in it together :roll: , it's just that some of us are more "in it" than others.

We're in this mess due to the unscrupulous taking advantage of the gullible. Some fell into the trap easier than others, but rest assured the unscrupulous have lined their pockets sufficiently enough to ensure they're in the lifeboat whilst the vast majority are chin deep in a sea of sh1t.

Are they? Dont know of anyone struggling particularly at present. Not saying nobody is, but "vast majority"??

Fair do's jumped the gun a bit. Things are only just getting underway and when the cutbacks kick in there will indeed be a lot of families in the smelly stuff. The posters on here will by and large (I believe) be reasonably well off, not neccessarily over wealthy but with a reasonable amount of disposable income (afterall cycling isn't the cheapest hobby in the world) so we may get a distorted view of things.
I know people who are well in debt and they can ill afford too many tax hikes and wage cuts.

antfly

Nearly everyone with a mortgage is still much better off than they were when interest rates were high.

rick_chasey

antfly wrote:

Nearly everyone with a mortgage is still much better off than they were when interest rates were high.

Unless they lost their job or took a pay cut.

verylonglegs

Rick Chasey wrote:

antfly wrote:

Nearly everyone with a mortgage is still much better off than they were when interest rates were high.

Unless they lost their job or took a pay cut.

Or if they are in negative equity and/or getting on towards being 10yrs into a interest only mortgage with nothing in place to pay the the outstanding amount.

antfly

My point is you only hear about people beng worse off. Plenty are much better off, they are just keeping quiet about it.

brin

Just drove through the high street and noticed the £1 shop is now the £1.02.5 shop

P_Tucker

antfly wrote:

My point is you only hear about people beng worse off. Plenty are much better off, they are just keeping quiet about it.

I'm much better off. Paying sweet FA on my mortgage, and there's not been a recession for my line of work - indeed my pay has increased by about 50% since the start of the recession, the mrs has done similar. Life rocks.

Obviously I am now hoping that the austerity measures cause a nice fallback in growth so that interest rates stay low. Either that or Spain to go bust.

sheffsimon

verylonglegs wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

antfly wrote:

Nearly everyone with a mortgage is still much better off than they were when interest rates were high.

Unless they lost their job or took a pay cut.

Or if they are in negative equity and/or getting on towards being 10yrs into a interest only mortgage with nothing in place to pay the the outstanding amount.

Why would you end up in this situation? When I took out my mortgage 15yrs ago, we had to show the lender that we had something in place (endowment in my case) to repay the capital. I've since had to increase the payments by £20 a month, but such is life. Have also changed my mortgage to reduce the interest only part to a lot less than the endowment is targetted to make.

Its about living within what you can afford.

singlespeedexplosif

Why would you end up in this situation?

this. Sorry, but if you took out an interest-only mortgage and aren't making enough savings to cover it, it's not the fault of the economy...

rick_chasey

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

Why would you end up in this situation?

this. Sorry, but if you took out an interest-only mortgage and aren't making enough savings to cover it, it's not the fault of the economy...

If enough people do it it harms the economy.

rhext

Rick Chasey wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

Why would you end up in this situation?

this. Sorry, but if you took out an interest-only mortgage and aren't making enough savings to cover it, it's not the fault of the economy...

If enough people do it it harms the economy.

Not as much as if enough people don't do it!

Pross

Frank the tank wrote:

SheffSimon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

What you have to remember is we're all in it together :roll: , it's just that some of us are more "in it" than others.

We're in this mess due to the unscrupulous taking advantage of the gullible. Some fell into the trap easier than others, but rest assured the unscrupulous have lined their pockets sufficiently enough to ensure they're in the lifeboat whilst the vast majority are chin deep in a sea of sh1t.

Are they? Dont know of anyone struggling particularly at present. Not saying nobody is, but "vast majority"??

Fair do's jumped the gun a bit. Things are only just getting underway and when the cutbacks kick in there will indeed be a lot of families in the smelly stuff.

No they're not, things have been bad for at least 18 months but are starting to get a bit better if anything for a lot of people.

Unfortunately I didn't benefit from the reduction in mortgage rate as all it did was reduce the impact of the hike I had when my fixed rate finished with Northern Rock just as they put their rates up to offload customers and no other lenders were offering the require LTV! My own fault, I'm like a micro version of the economy as a whole - borrowed too much (although affordable) thinking things would never get worse!

snailracer

rhext wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

Why would you end up in this situation?

this. Sorry, but if you took out an interest-only mortgage and aren't making enough savings to cover it, it's not the fault of the economy...

If enough people do it it harms the economy.

Not as much as if enough people don't do it!

If people didn't do it, everyone would simple rent (as the majority in the UK used to do) instead of buy, keeping money out of the banks' irresponsible hands. In many countries, renting is still the majority choice. In the UK, the property ownership culture was created in 1969 when the government introduced mortgage tax relief that made it artificially cheaper to buy than rent.

Pross

Who would they rent off if no-one was buying property?

zanes

The problem I have with it is I suspect retailers will put up prices by more than the rise in VAT dictates- I can see some things will be closer to 10% increase overall.

Then, when the sales figures come out showing a drop in retail trade all the retailer groups can come out and shout about how the VAT increase has killed sales and how it was such a bad idea, final nail in the coffin etc when in fact the bigger reason is them "stretching" their margins.

</grumpy old cynic mode>

snailracer

Pross wrote:

Who would they rent off if no-one was buying property?

The sort that were around before house buying took off: housing agencies, councils, the C of E, even private landlords/owners(!)
The point is that those folks made money by collecting rent for accommodation, not through speculation on future property values.

rick_chasey

The housing issue to me seems to be a supply issue.

It's NIMBY politics at its most literal.