So we're all a little poorer today.
Pokerface
Posts: 7,960
VAT increases to 20% from today I believe. :twisted:
Any thoughts on how long it will last? Do you think we're stuck with it for good? Is this the highest tax rate you know of in the world!?
Any thoughts on how long it will last? Do you think we're stuck with it for good? Is this the highest tax rate you know of in the world!?
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The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.0
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Presumably it doesn't make any difference as that was the general consensus when VAT was reduced to 15% a couple of years back. I always find it odd that when something is costing Joe Public more money it is a huge deal but when it saves them the same amount it is derided as pointless. Other than on fuel I doubt most of us will be affected on a day to day basis (at least not right away) as the larger retailers will absorb the difference just as the price generally didn't go down when the rate was cut.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:
That's income tax rates. This is VAT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#Tax_rates
Highest appears to be 25%, so we still have a ways to go.0 -
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snailracer wrote:The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
Well, yes we are. More money out of our pockets - for the same (or in many cases) reduced public services. Paying down debt....0 -
Pokerface wrote:snailracer wrote:The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
Well, yes we are. More money out of our pockets - for the same (or in many cases) reduced public services. Paying down debt....
...so we're no poorer than yesterday, it's just that today we're taking steps towards living within our means?0 -
Suppose it's all about perspective/priorities, home page on AOL made me laugh today - one headline claiming people can't afford to pay gymnasium fees to keep fit, next headline beer to top £3.00 a pint.....ermmmm :?0
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rhext wrote:Pokerface wrote:snailracer wrote:The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
Well, yes we are. More money out of our pockets - for the same (or in many cases) reduced public services. Paying down debt....
...so we're no poorer than yesterday, it's just that today we're taking steps towards living within our means?
Amen to that.0 -
As always the DailyMash makes a point.......
Tom Logan, a former consumer from Peterborough, said: "I don't know much about economics, then again neither did John Maynard Keynes but everyone still listened to him for about a thousand years before realising he was full of hot piss.
"So anyway, my theory is, instead of taking more of my money and making things more expensive, let me keep my money so I can spend it in shops and the people who work in the shops can keep getting paid because I've bought stuff from them.
"Meanwhile everyone else probably works in advertising and so they can keep getting paid to sit around Soho producing short films about the things in the shops that are clearly based on the assumption that I'm some kind of arsehole.
"And instead of taking a lot from a little, the government can take a little from a lot until such times as we all finally recognise that money is a ludicrous, man-made abstract that causes nothing but anguish and violence."
He added: "Now if you'll excuse me I was actually in the middle of recreating the climactic scene from A Few Good Men using half a banana and some Monster Munch.
"The banana can't handle the truth."0 -
.... this is just the start I am afraid0
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brin wrote:Suppose it's all about perspective/priorities, home page on AOL made me laugh today - one headline claiming people can't afford to pay gymnasium fees to keep fit, next headline beer to top £3.00 a pint.....ermmmm :?
People really take things too far, it's only a 2.5% increase on the tax. Even if you were paying something silly like £100 a month for the gym you would only be looking at about a £2 increase.
Will be interesting to see how many retailers do their sums the wrong way round, willing to bet lots of places just add 2.5% to the retail price instead of to the tax. Not that I complained when the drop to 15% gave us the odd extra penny when retailers did the sums wrong!0 -
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About 2.1%?0
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Will Wiggles latest sale take this into account?0
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Just received this from a mate:
Quote of the day:
.............. from the Torygraph, an article on the VAT increase on petrol from XXXXX XXXXX, 41.
" I use my car to do the school run as we live quite a distance from the school but we might have to consider walking now"
So - no you don't live quite a distance from the school, you're just a lazy *** who clogs up the roads twice a day!
:roll:Mac0 -
if something costs £1, it is a price, y, with vat added. so y+ 15% of y =1
or 1=1.15y
therefore y=1/1.15 = 87 pence near as dammit
so 87p with 20% added gives new price, z
z=1.2 x 0.87 = 1.044
something costing £1 now costs £1.044
so price increase is about 4.4%
Edit - were we still at the lowered %15 rate, or am I being a plank?0 -
The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!Visit Ireland - all of it! Cycle in Dublin and know fear!!
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garrynolan wrote:The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!
Hence the question
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PBo wrote:if something costs £1, it is a price, y, with vat added. so y+ 15% of y =1
or 1=1.15y
therefore y=1/1.15 = 87 pence near as dammit
so 87p with 20% added gives new price, z
z=1.2 x 0.87 = 1.044
something costing £1 now costs £1.044
so price increase is about 4.4%
Edit - were we still at the lowered %15 rate, or am I being a plank?
Not quite. The current VAT rate is 17.5%. It's going up to 20%. If the retailer wanted get £1 from a particular sale, he'd have had to charge you £1.175 yesterday. Now he'll have to charge you £1.20. £1.20/£1.175 is 1.021: a 2.1% increase. So if you paid £100 for something yesterday, you could expect to be charged £102.10 for it today. Although I suspect most retailers will either leave as is or put prices up by 2.5%....0 -
garrynolan wrote:The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!
I know what you mean, but I think everyone is ok with referring to it this way, and . We didn't talk about the previous vat cut being 13% or whatever, we just spoke about the rate being 2.5% lower.....
income tax rates are always discussed as up or down by a penny, etc, not a %4 cut or whatever.0 -
rhext wrote:PBo wrote:if something costs £1, it is a price, y, with vat added. so y+ 15% of y =1
or 1=1.15y
therefore y=1/1.15 = 87 pence near as dammit
so 87p with 20% added gives new price, z
z=1.2 x 0.87 = 1.044
something costing £1 now costs £1.044
so price increase is about 4.4%
Edit - were we still at the lowered %15 rate, or am I being a plank?
Not quite. The current VAT rate is 17.5%. It's going up to 20%. If the retailer wanted get £1 from a particular sale, he'd have had to charge you £1.175 yesterday. Now he'll have to charge you £1.20. £1.20/£1.175 is 1.021: a 2.1% increase. So if you paid £100 for something yesterday, you could expect to be charged £102.10 for it today. Although I suspect most retailers will either leave as is or put prices up by 2.5%....
I'm obviously living in the past with the whole %15 business.....but if I change my number to 17.5 and substitute in to above calculation,, I too get 2.1%0 -
garrynolan wrote:The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!
Good point Garry, I hadn't thought about it like that but there again maths was never my strongest subject.0 -
garrynolan wrote:The VAT has not gone up 2.5%! It had gone up by 2.5 percentage points - a huge difference. The actual percentage increase is 14%.. VAT @ 17.5% + 14% = VAT @ 20%. Use a calculator to work it out if you don't believe me (17.5 + 2.5% = 18... not 20) Funny how the powers-that-be (and the media, who should know better) never express it like that!
Slightly pedantic and we all know what is meant - most people would say the rate of VAT has gone up 2.5%, it's an irrelevant argument really and as someone else pointed out no-one seemed to be making the same case when it went down.0 -
Ollieda wrote:brin wrote:......
Will be interesting to see how many retailers do their sums the wrong way round, willing to bet lots of places just add 2.5% to the retail price instead of to the tax. Not that I complained when the drop to 15% gave us the odd extra penny when retailers did the sums wrong!
Strangely enough, HMRC do actually look for that sort of thing.
To be fair, many retailers have said that they will absorbe the impact of the increase initally although if you've been looking closely, most retailers took the opportunity to increase their prices during Q4 2010. Expect over-inflation price rises in March-May though as retailers look to claw back any 'good will'.
Most computerised retail systems (even for small retailers) will apply the change in tax correctly. Where the 'con' will manifest itself is where retailers amend the net price of the item to reflect the inevitable x.x9p price points so loved on the highstreet.
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The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
??? not really. Our debt. Labours fault. Torys problem. Our problem. Thank you Labourhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/lancejambo/7872222626/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancejambo/7872231406/0 -
lancejambo wrote:The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
??? not really. Our debt. Labours fault. Torys problem. Our problem. Thank you Labour
...you invite us to believe that the Tories would have spotted this one coming and avoided it?0 -
One of the big economic problems is the massive increase in consumer debt, hopefully this will reduce consumer spending, reduce imports but it'll probably all go horribly wrong.0
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lancejambo wrote:
Quote:
The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
??? not really. Our debt. Labours fault. Torys problem. Our problem. Thank you Labour
...you invite us to believe that the Tories would have spotted this one coming and avoided it?
To be fair who knows ?? yes / no. Even if i was in charge of GB. People will always point the finger at who they want to. Now things are getting tight i just hope people dont forget the ones who got us into this mess because soon people will start getting angry with the torys due to the way they think is best to get us out this mess. BUT what i will say (my opinion) when Labour turn around to bad mouth the Torys (just as bad as each other when it comes to bitching) they need to relise they had there chance and f$ck%d it up big style.http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancejambo/7872222626/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancejambo/7872231406/0 -
lancejambo wrote:lancejambo wrote:
Quote:
The money gets spent on public services, so we're not poorer.
??? not really. Our debt. Labours fault. Torys problem. Our problem. Thank you Labour
...you invite us to believe that the Tories would have spotted this one coming and avoided it?
o be fair who knows ?? yes / no. Even if i was in charge of GB. People will always point the finger at who they want to. Now things are getting tight i just hope people dont forget the ones who got us into this mess because soon people will start getting angry with the torys due to the way they think is best to get us out this mess. BUT what i will say (my opinion) when Labour turn around to bad mouth the Torys (just as bad as each other when it comes to bitching) they need to relise they add there chance and f$ck%d it up big style.
So basically, you are a Tory supporter who wants to make sure the Tories win the next election.
Right, nothing to see here.0
