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Building muscle - how best to, and the pros and cons

InterferonInterferon Posts: 17
Hi,

This isn't related to a specific event I'm training for, but I'd like some advice on best to build muscle. I am 5ft 7" and currently weigh 56kg (9st), and am of slight-to-medium build. I'm thinking of trying to increase my weight to ~60-61kg (~10st).

I do not want to add 1st weight in 4 weeks, but perhaps 2/3 months, and am more concerned with building quality muscle (fast and slow twitch) rather than just fast-twitch muscle. I would also like to add the weight evenly across all muscle groups, legs and upper body.

What is the best way to do this please? Having looked at supplements and shakes from what I can see there seems to be some whey protein products which let you gain lots of weight very fast, and some other products which seem to let you gain weight in quality muscle and over a slightly longer period - what I'm after.

Would anyone recommend any supplements? (Had been looking at some trisource protein cycling recovery drinks - would these do?) What sort of impact would 1st extra going to do to the rest of my body?

Also I am currently well-conditioned and have a great power to weight ratio on the bike. Would I obliterate this by adding 1st extra of muscle? Or would the benefits make it worth doing?

Cheers,

JJ
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Posts

  • pastey_boypastey_boy Posts: 2,540
    ive found steroids to be best although spectacularly small testicles is a slight drawback, but on a serious note one of the best lean gainers for value is atlas lean mass, can be found online for £39 for 5kg delivered. it contains more quality protein than carbs so you wont bloat up like you would on carb heavy weight gainers. as for the effect on you cycling i can tell you as a body builder that when im at 18 stones plus i have lots of power for short bursts but suffer badly on the hills but at 15ish stones i seem a hell of a lot better and can power up hills without blowing out. obviously im still a lot heavier than a competitive cyclist but ive found that if your carrying more weigh, as long as its lean weight you should be ok. you get problems when your carting along excess water and fat. so if you gain quality weight at a good steady rate (1-2lbs per wk) max you should benefit
    Viner Salviati
    Shark Aero Pro
    Px Ti Custom
    Cougar 531
    Sab single speed
    Argon 18 E-112 TT
    One-one Ti 456 Evo
    Ridley Cheetah TT
    Orange Clockwork 2007 ltd ed
    Yeti ASR 5
    Cove Hummer XC Ti
  • Maximuscle cyclone and PHD ISO7 are quality products that assit muscle growth and strength if used with a hard gym routine.3 or 4 visits a week for at least an hour would serve you well.I`m 5"7 and 83kg with 12% bodyfat i`m working on getting lighter ready for spring.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 2,662
    you won't put on a stone in muscle in 2 to 3 month.

    best bet is probably to base routines around compound exercises such as squats and deadlifts for legs and chest press, rows and pull ups for upper body. These work the large muscles and also the supporting muscles around them.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,746
    What has this got to do with cycling? I'd try another forum.
  • pastey_boypastey_boy Posts: 2,540
    inseine wrote:
    What has this got to do with cycling? I'd try another forum.
    it has absolutely nothing to with cycling as cyclist dont have any muscle or the need for nutritional supplementation !!!!!!! if you look through the forum you will find thousands of threads that are not in anyway connected with cycling, im sure if you make a start now you should be able to tell the authors that they should consult alternative sites.
    Viner Salviati
    Shark Aero Pro
    Px Ti Custom
    Cougar 531
    Sab single speed
    Argon 18 E-112 TT
    One-one Ti 456 Evo
    Ridley Cheetah TT
    Orange Clockwork 2007 ltd ed
    Yeti ASR 5
    Cove Hummer XC Ti
  • This particular section is a cycling training forum.

    You won't be able to choose the fibre type when training for increased muscle bulk. You will pretty much just increase the size of the fibres you already have. For the most part, that sort of training reduces aerobic metabolic capabilities through mitochodrial dilution.

    Which means you'll go slower on a bike, up hills in particular since your aerobic threshold will fall (since your weight training will cut into your endurance training, either because of a reallocation of time resource and/or because you are too fatigued for quality aerobic work) and your mass will increase.

    You can attain some hypertrophy through endurance training, and in that way maintain muscle mitochondrial density.
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,422
    I'm unclear as to what you want this muscle for. If you want "big guns" then I would suggest you hang up the bike, subscribe to "Flex" magazine, and start setting up a weightroom in your basement or join a gym that is bodybuilding specific. That's how to get "big".
    As for simply buying and drinking some sort of supplement, then sitting around waiting to get big, well, that works too. Only problem is you'll probably just get fat, but you knew that? There is no supplement that adds muscle(or fat) to a specific area. In any case don't count on supplements for muscle, count on work.
    If you want to get big the way to do it is through explosive training i.e. pumping iron, short bursts of very high effort at running, cycling, etc. If you're not a track cyclist then you probably won't put on a bunch of muscle.
    In the end what I'm saying is you can't be Arnold and still win the TDF. Get into a sport you enjoy and enjoy it. Ya can't do it all.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    Ahhhh Dennis. I've missed you.

    And you are so much kinder and gentler these days.


    Nice to see you (for real). :oops:
  • What has this got to do with cycling?


    Dave-Clark-and-Chris-Hoy.jpg

    Nothing much....
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    Yes, but at 56kg, the OP is hardly a track sprinter. Nor is he likely to become one!
  • My take....
    Putting on just muscle is tricky- you will need to work eat & rest in a very focussed way to avoid just getting fat(ter). I would suggest that you try to add protein to a level of 1.5 g per kg bodyweight, shared out over the day. You could easily get this from protein rich real food - tuna, other fish, meat etc & dairy products ( or vegetarian equivalents)
    Whenever you exercise make sure you do not do so without good glycogen stores (the body's on carbs) - eat on the bike and /or afterwards and include some protein.
    A stone over 13 weeks means a calorie excess of 500-700 kcal a day in broad terms....for some of us putting on weight is easy peasey - but I think your goal could be tricky, especially if you have a lightly built frame.
    your cycling may well suffer too - at least short term but if you can eventually up your power output to keep up with the extra weight you would be ok - its not as if you will be overweight at 5' 7" an d 10 stone!
  • Pokerface wrote:
    Yes, but at 56kg, the OP is hardly a track sprinter. Nor is he likely to become one!

    Granted - it's just reminding the school of cycling that says you have to be a skinny fecker that we've had rather a lot of success as a nation in the type of cycling for which being skinny isn't the way to go.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • pastey_boypastey_boy Posts: 2,540
    very true, who says you have to look like an emaciated spaniard
    Viner Salviati
    Shark Aero Pro
    Px Ti Custom
    Cougar 531
    Sab single speed
    Argon 18 E-112 TT
    One-one Ti 456 Evo
    Ridley Cheetah TT
    Orange Clockwork 2007 ltd ed
    Yeti ASR 5
    Cove Hummer XC Ti
  • jp1985jp1985 Posts: 434
    In terms of cycling you won't improve by increasing body weight 10%.

    Adding 5/6kg of lean mass when you only weigh 56kg will take a long time, much longer than 2/3 months. Probably 1-2 years.

    You will need to be in the gym 2-3 times a week lifting moderately heavy weights for 8-12 reps and 3-5sets using exerciss such as deadlifts, squats, presses and rows. This is a big commitment and will interfere with your cycling training in terms of time and recovery, cycling / aerobic activity will also impede strength gains and hypertrophy from this training.

    Supplements such as protein shakes are mainly about convenience as timing of nutrition in relation to training is important. You should be aiming to take in approx 1.5-1.8g/kg body mass of protein each day.

    If you just want to appear bigger and aren't interested In strength gains then you could take creatine which will increase the water content in your muscles and make them appear larger, probably adding 2-3 kg to body weight. This may also improve repeated sprint ability. But the effect creatine has Is dependent on the individual. Some people respond to it others dont.
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM Rub your eyes in amazement....
    Some halfwitt here is lifting weights to improve his cycling i wonder if he is any good? :lol::lol: why don`t you tell him it`s a no brainer and he shouldn`t bother wasting his time.
    I thought coaches were there to work with each client as an individual,if thats not the case then we should all train the same shouldn`t we? well that puts all coaches out of business doesn`t it.That would mean the sale of self coaching books and premade plans are about to rocket. :wink:
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,422
    I would like to know how many people are actually TRAINING??? Lots of talk about cycling training but how many of us are simply out there riding? Not that there is anything wrong with riding around but it's not training. I think there are lots of people out there who want to think that they are training but are simply getting exercise.Training is what
    professional athletes do. Exercise is for the rest of us.
  • dennisn wrote:
    I would like to know how many people are actually TRAINING??? Lots of talk about cycling training but how many of us are simply out there riding? Not that there is anything wrong with riding around but it's not training. I think there are lots of people out there who want to think that they are training but are simply getting exercise.Training is what
    professional athletes do. Exercise is for the rest of us.

    Want to define by what YOU mean by training? For me it's working towards a specific event or series of events. I exercise for sure - just generally drifting towards better fitness.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • irezumiirezumi Posts: 142
    I weigh 57kg at the same height and due to no longer competing in a weight category at another sport am putting on some extra weight as I find it improves my cycling.

    For the next two months I will only be doing 1-2Xendurance rides a week (around 3 hours). 3X weight training (mainly lower body/back) a week and 2x shorter rides at a higher pace, some will be hill training based. I also commute 3 times a week of 15 miles eacy way.

    Don't eat any (or at least extremely little) junk food. Consume lots of pasta and rice. For me eating a bowl of pasta/rice/jacket potato at night after dinner.

    A rough diet for me is breakfast (cereal + fruit).
    Snack of nuts + fruit mid morning.
    Lunch, normally 2 sandwiches with fruit etc or chicken & pasta dish.
    Dinner, anything as long as it's home cooked/healthy-ish for me.
    Then pasta or jacket potato.
    Interspersed by pieces of fruit throughout the day.

    After every ride/training (including commuting) I also take 'Myprotein' recovery XS, prefferably in milk.

    I did this before and within 2 months gained 1.5 stone. Cut half a stone and was more powerful and fitter with a lower bodyfat % than before this.

    As to whether it's good. Depends on what sort of riding you do and what you want to achieve as well as how successful your training is.
  • CarbonCopy wrote:
    Rub your eyes in amazement....
    Some halfwitt here is lifting weights to improve his cycling i wonder if he is any good? :lol::lol: why don`t you tell him it`s a no brainer and he shouldn`t bother wasting his time.
    I thought coaches were there to work with each client as an individual,if thats not the case then we should all train the same shouldn`t we? well that puts all coaches out of business doesn`t it.That would mean the sale of self coaching books and premade plans are about to rocket. :wink:

    He's not lifting to put on weight though. I'd say there's a difference between weight lifting and strength and conditioning.
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    CarbonCopy wrote:
    Rub your eyes in amazement....
    Some halfwitt here is lifting weights to improve his cycling i wonder if he is any good? :lol::lol: why don`t you tell him it`s a no brainer and he shouldn`t bother wasting his time.
    I thought coaches were there to work with each client as an individual,if thats not the case then we should all train the same shouldn`t we? well that puts all coaches out of business doesn`t it.That would mean the sale of self coaching books and premade plans are about to rocket. :wink:

    He's not lifting to put on weight though. I'd say there's a difference between weight lifting and strength and conditioning.

    Agreed - plus he's carrying WAY more weight in that video than he raced with. He had to work really hard to lose a lot of that muscle!
  • I never said he was lifting weights to gain muscle, i was merely suggesting he is lifting weights to assist his cycling training.Hence the bit about coaching peaple as individuals and not one program suits all.Lance needed to lose weight to scale the mountains.Not everyone has strong legs to use the big ring up front so a few squats leg presses etc MAY help them achieve this.
    Thats the trouble with not being very good at grammer i find it hard to spell correctly and express what i`m trying to say,And i understand the fact that I`m not always right.It would be alot nicer place on this forum if a few other could see things that way too. :lol:
    POKERFACE why you selling all your assos gear?
  • Thanks for all the replies, I hadn't expected quite so many! Having gone through them I realise quite how helpful they've been, and this is what I now think...

    - At the moment I have great power:weight, and a couple of you have pointed out how this would be demolished if I added extra weight. I love my power:weight, it's why I can bound up hills on a bike.

    - I had no idea how long it would take to gain 4/5kg in muscle. Seems it would take a long time and - combined with the point above - not worth it for me.

    - Gaining strength not weight is what I would like to do. Preferably strength with no increase in muscle size/weight!! Is this possible?!? Also gaining strength aimed at my disciplines.

    - I try take lots of protein in my diet, and will just keep this up I think - but not obsessively, having read all your things (and how I love my P:W I'm not sure I want to gain any weight!)

    Sooo...

    Other than consistent aerobic/cardio training, any tips for strength (but not weight) gaining and also pushing the P:W up?

    Thanks again guys - much appreciated!

    JJ
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    CarbonCopy wrote:
    POKERFACE why you selling all your assos gear?

    Just selling the 'extra' stuff I had. That's part of the problem with being an unemployed cyclist - the bills don't pay themselves!
  • Ohh i feel bad now i asked i thought well i thought wrong :roll: hope things pan out for you.
  • a_n_ta_n_t Posts: 2,011
    Interferon wrote:
    any tips for strength (but not weight) gaining and also pushing the P:W up?


    JJ

    You've made the classic mistake of confusing strength with power. 2 completely seperate things.
    Manchester wheelers

    PB's
    10m 20:21 2014
    25m 53:18 20:13
    50m 1:57:12 2013
    100m Yeah right.
  • a_n_t wrote:
    You've made the classic mistake of confusing strength with power. 2 completely seperate things.

    Without sounding wanting to sound like a pedant, that's not strictly true - they are related.

    POWER = FORCE (strength) x DISTANCE ÷ TIME
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • a_n_ta_n_t Posts: 2,011
    I'm related to my sister but we're completely different people.

    My point being the OP will have more than enough strength to turn the pedals but needs to increase power to do it for longer.
    Manchester wheelers

    PB's
    10m 20:21 2014
    25m 53:18 20:13
    50m 1:57:12 2013
    100m Yeah right.
  • If his strength stays the same, he's need to turn them faster to increase power.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    I want to know more about Ant's sister
  • a_n_ta_n_t Posts: 2,011
    If his strength stays the same, he's need to turn them faster to increase power.


    And if he has no more power to give how will increasing strength help?

    The question I quoted was about increasing power/weight. You either need to increase power [not strength] or decrease weight.
    Manchester wheelers

    PB's
    10m 20:21 2014
    25m 53:18 20:13
    50m 1:57:12 2013
    100m Yeah right.
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