Rourke or Pegoretti?

etapechamp

buy a rourke, you will be over the moon with it, meanwhile get some cumfy feet

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180605561989&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

dcj

We are all wasting our time looking at this forum. I have talked to THE dealer who has had very bad reviews on this forum. I want a steel frame and I can afford one. How is that wasting anymore of anybody's time than any other threads on this forum?

wasting your own time is allowed with pleasure but the way the question was phrased we weren't even remotely comparing like for like for you, since one was custom and the other wasn't. one was a specific model and the other was the brand in general.

Some of my curiosity evapourated after I originally posted to challenge the comparison: peg also do custom at no extra cost, to which you replied to my post with a scathing put-down - factually incorrect BTW- that was briefer even than your original question :shock: we are only trying to help you!

well, after then i thought, 'hang-on this guy takes no prisoners' and the rest is history :shock:

however, reading your post above, we do have common ground regarding our short list.

since we are on the second page, have you come to any sort of conclusion yet you are willing to share about which model peg you are/were comparing to the rourke 953?

Rodrego Hernandez

Hoopdriver wrote:

Pegorettis are wonderful bikes and Dario is a real gentleman by all accounts. The unfortunate part about buying one in the UK is the need to go through this one certain shop - and they are just pirates. I have had several unpleasant experiences with that lot, and I am by no means alone. I wish I could tell you another way of doing it, but there doesn't seem to be. A friend of mine had so much unpleasantness in his dealings with that shop (and was even in the obviously mistaken belief that he was a friend of one of the owners) that he actually travelled to Italy to buy from Dario in person. bUt for some reason or other Dario felt he had to honour his exclusivity agreement with the London shop and insisted it be handled through them.

He went ahead, but had a very unpleasant time of things, and it cost him WAY more than planned or budgeted. He was glad to have the Peg, but never set foot in that shop again.

Absolute grinning pirates.

Had a bike (IF) 'custom' built by them and it was totally wrong, sizing, angles and just didn't fit.

Conversely had a Rourke built several years ago and it was great. Bike fit is only good if you are dealing with an expert.

Hoopdriver

Sorry to hear about your IF problems, but Jesus, that shop...

I have heard so many stories of colossal screw ups from that shop if staggers me how they remain in business.

darren H

I had one of the first 953 frames that rourke started doing. Made to measure and Brian spent four hours measuring, looking, talking, telling me stuff.
I'm a similar size to Brian and I think he knew what size I was before he got his measuring stick out.
Great service and I've done thousands of happy miles on it. I left it to him to build it for me.

He specced campag chorus, ritchley components, etc etc.

The only thing I chose was the cosmic carbon wheels. Had to wait a few months but it is a dream bike.

giant_man

I would certainly avoid THAT shop at all costs personally, anyway Bespoke cycles in London now do IF if that's any help, only a matter of time before Pegoretti hopefully find another source to peddle their ridiculously-long-time-to-wait-but-very-lovely-frames ...

Hoopdriver

One humorous thing about THAT shop is that when I was pointing out their many shortcomings to them in the wake of their final (for me) ham-fisted screw up, and hearing the owner protest that nearly all their customers were deliriously happy ones, I told him about a certain review site called Urban Path on which I had seen his shop roundly slammed and given a string of something like a dozen one-star ratings on the trot by customers who complained of everything from overcharging to arrogance to dangerously incompetent wrenching work done by their back-room boys..

Well, within 48 hours a string of glowing five-star reviews began to appear - and they still pop up every now and then, interspersed with the one-star rebukes given by real customers. I look in every now and then for a laugh. It's only funny though if you know the back story.

I heard they lost the Milani dealership recently...

Maybe Pegoretti will move on as well. I hope so.

FransJacques

darren H wrote:

I had one of the first 953 frames that rourke started doing. Made to measure and Brian spent four hours measuring, looking, talking, telling me stuff.
I'm a similar size to Brian and I think he knew what size I was before he got his measuring stick out.
Great service and I've done thousands of happy miles on it. I left it to him to build it for me.

He specced campag chorus, ritchley components, etc etc.

Sounds nice, how big is the frame? What did the bare frame or the whole bike weigh? I'm rather obsessed with weight, mine and my bikes. I even bought one of those hand held luggage scales from the EasyJet duty free catalogue. I wasn't aware at first but you can also use them to weigh your luggage.

on-yer-bike

dcj wrote:

We are all wasting our time looking at this forum. I have talked to THE dealer who has had very bad reviews on this forum. I want a steel frame and I can afford one. How is that wasting anymore of anybody's time than any other threads on this forum?

wasting your own time is allowed with pleasure but the way the question was phrased we weren't even remotely comparing like for like for you, since one was custom and the other wasn't. one was a specific model and the other was the brand in general.

Some of my curiosity evapourated after I originally posted to challenge the comparison: peg also do custom at no extra cost, to which you replied to my post with a scathing put-down - factually incorrect BTW- that was briefer even than your original question :shock: we are only trying to help you!

well, after then i thought, 'hang-on this guy takes no prisoners' and the rest is history :shock:

however, reading your post above, we do have common ground regarding our short list.

since we are on the second page, have you come to any sort of conclusion yet you are willing to share about which model peg you are/were comparing to the rourke 953?

It is a Marcelo Pegoretti I was considering and was advised to consider by that shop. I would just buy an off the peg 55 Pegoretti whereas I would go through the whole customisation process with Rourke. I guess I am drawn by the brand and romance with Pegoretti. Either way the frame would be one colour grey. With the Rourke though I would be reluctant to have their terrible logo on the frame which they say is OK. The Marcelo is a very stiff racing frame and I have been advised may ride more like an alu frame due to its oversize tubing. Maybe I'll get a Rourke and put Peg transfers on it. (joke)

Monty Dog

I think it was one off the German bike magazines that tested a whole load of frames and the Marcelo was the stiffest. I've no experience with that shop in Islington and would be worried about having to deal with them based on some of the comments - if you're buying a stock size, then it should be a straight-forward transaction?

Hoopdriver

It should be. But even then they can screw up - and you might find yourself with, say, a carbon fork, when you wanted or ordered steel (as happened to a friend of mine) and then things can get tense and ugly. As best you'll have a long, long wait to get things straightened out.

They will be very friendly, full of hail-fellow-well-met bonhomie when you saunter in with your credit card, but after that they will pretty well ignore you. Promised delivery dates will come and go with nary a word, and no returned phone calls or e-mails. No explanations beyond a shoulder shrug, and a bit of passive aggression which can become pretty overt aggression pretty quickly if you persist with wanting to know what's up.

Also, if you do go ahead and order a Pegoretti from them, don't let them build it for you - either do it yourself or get a shop you know and trust to do it for you. Avoid their backroom chappies as you would malaria. And if you buy components from them you'll pay a hefty premium, rrp plus whatever they reckon they can get.

I wish I could be more encouraging - Pegoretti makes a beautiful bike. IT's just such a pain to have to go through that shop. Hopefully he will find another outlet. Pegoretti has a lot of cachet, to be sure, but sometimes I think we tend to overlook what we have in our own backyards - Rourke makes a mighty fine frame by any reckoning, and as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse that put in a call to Enigma. Honestly, UK builders such as Rourke and Enigma really do not need to take a back seat to anybody in the frame building line. Give it some thought.

on-yer-bike

Hoopdriver wrote:

It should be. But even then they can screw up - and you might find yourself with, say, a carbon fork, when you wanted or ordered steel (as happened to a friend of mine) and then things can get tense and ugly. As best you'll have a long, long wait to get things straightened out.

They will be very friendly, full of hail-fellow-well-met bonhomie when you saunter in with your credit card, but after that they will pretty well ignore you. Promised delivery dates will come and go with nary a word, and no returned phone calls or e-mails. No explanations beyond a shoulder shrug, and a bit of passive aggression which can become pretty overt aggression pretty quickly if you persist with wanting to know what's up.

Also, if you do go ahead and order a Pegoretti from them, don't let them build it for you - either do it yourself or get a shop you know and trust to do it for you. Avoid their backroom chappies as you would malaria. And if you buy components from them you'll pay a hefty premium, rrp plus whatever they reckon they can get.

I wish I could be more encouraging - Pegoretti makes a beautiful bike. IT's just such a pain to have to go through that shop. Hopefully he will find another outlet. Pegoretti has a lot of cachet, to be sure, but sometimes I think we tend to overlook what we have in our own backyards - Rourke makes a mighty fine frame by any reckoning, and as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse that put in a call to Enigma. Honestly, UK builders such as Rourke and Enigma really do not need to take a back seat to anybody in the frame building line. Give it some thought.

I am going to build the bike myself. They want to charge me £35.00 for facing the BB and head tube after spending £2200. Is that normal?

Hoopdriver

It's less than they charged me.

cedargreen

I bought a Rourke about 4 years ago, in part due to a niggling doubt that I had ever had a bike which really fitted me.

I can see the attraction of Italian exotica and that it's hard to imagine a bike shop in Stoke-on-Trent is going to supply the same sort of kudos but.....I spent a whole afternoon getting fitted and choosing the bike's spec, during which time I had Brian's undivided attention. I think places like Rourke's are just as passionate about bikes as anyone anywhere on the planet and I'm sure it's the same at Enigma, Mercian etc. And you can actually go and chat to the people who'll be building your frame and assembling the bike, a relationship which is pretty rare if not unique in the world of consumer goods.

Although I live in London, I haven't been to THE shop which deals with Pegoretti so I can't comment, but even if they were the best bike shop in the country you'd still be dealing with a third party.

Hoopdriver

Precisely. One of the things I have enjoyed so much about having Mark Reilly at Enigma build my touring bike is finding exactly the sort of personal touch you're referring to, and it does indeed give the bike a sense of character that is very much missing in the world of consumer goods these days.

And while i know that Pegoretti has a lot of cachet, I do not think Mark Reilly or Brian Rourke need to take any back seats to him or anybody.

The acid test is that because of his (Mark Reilly's) very human involvement in the making of my tourer if there was but one bike I could take with me, as the tsunami rolls in, I'm going to say it would be the Mark Reilly-built Enigma tourer.

Chip \'oyler

on-yer-bike wrote:

Hoopdriver wrote:

It should be. But even then they can screw up - and you might find yourself with, say, a carbon fork, when you wanted or ordered steel (as happened to a friend of mine) and then things can get tense and ugly. As best you'll have a long, long wait to get things straightened out.

They will be very friendly, full of hail-fellow-well-met bonhomie when you saunter in with your credit card, but after that they will pretty well ignore you. Promised delivery dates will come and go with nary a word, and no returned phone calls or e-mails. No explanations beyond a shoulder shrug, and a bit of passive aggression which can become pretty overt aggression pretty quickly if you persist with wanting to know what's up.

Also, if you do go ahead and order a Pegoretti from them, don't let them build it for you - either do it yourself or get a shop you know and trust to do it for you. Avoid their backroom chappies as you would malaria. And if you buy components from them you'll pay a hefty premium, rrp plus whatever they reckon they can get.

I wish I could be more encouraging - Pegoretti makes a beautiful bike. IT's just such a pain to have to go through that shop. Hopefully he will find another outlet. Pegoretti has a lot of cachet, to be sure, but sometimes I think we tend to overlook what we have in our own backyards - Rourke makes a mighty fine frame by any reckoning, and as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse that put in a call to Enigma. Honestly, UK builders such as Rourke and Enigma really do not need to take a back seat to anybody in the frame building line. Give it some thought.

I am going to build the bike myself. They want to charge me £35.00 for facing the BB and head tube after spending £2200. Is that normal?

Most shops include building the frame up as part of the bike/frame price (if you've bought the frame and parts from them) - and that should include facing and chasing tubes.

dcj

I am going to build the bike myself. They want to charge me £35.00 for facing the BB and head tube after spending £2200. Is that normal?

no way is that normal practice in my experiece of dealing with bike shops.

It is a Marcelo Pegoretti I was considering and was advised to consider by that shop. I would just buy an off the peg 55 Pegoretti

actually that's the model i am considering too.

i think between the enigma 953 and rourke 953 on my shortlist I prefer the shot in seat stays on the enigma . i never liked wrap around seat stays even back in the day and now they look very old hat on the rourke. its all personal choice i guess and they are both half the price of a peg built from stainless.

i guess the marcelo is similar stiffness to your cervelo, on-yer-bike?
if not more so, which sounds bizarre talking about a steel frame and stiffer than stainless but not so smooth.

this is the first time i have ever been totally patient about planning my next bike, for some reason.

sloth2

Dario Pegoretti now sells his frames direct from his workshop. My Marcelo is with him atm for a respray. He asked me what had been my experience with a certain bike shop in Islington, I told him, then congratulated him on taking the sensible step of selling direct.... info@pegoretticicli.com

Hoopdriver

That's really interesting - and welcome! - news. Interesting that he asked you about that Islington shop. Had he been hearing things, or just getting uneasy vibes?

giant_man

dcj wrote:

I am going to build the bike myself. They want to charge me £35.00 for facing the BB and head tube after spending £2200. Is that normal?

no way is that normal practice in my experiece of dealing with bike shops.

It is a Marcelo Pegoretti I was considering and was advised to consider by that shop. I would just buy an off the peg 55 Pegoretti

actually that's the model i am considering too.

i think between the enigma 953 and rourke 953 on my shortlist I prefer the shot in seat stays on the enigma . i never liked wrap around seat stays even back in the day and now they look very old hat on the rourke. its all personal choice i guess and they are both half the price of a peg built from stainless.

i guess the marcelo is similar stiffness to your cervelo, on-yer-bike?
if not more so, which sounds bizarre talking about a steel frame and stiffer than stainless but not so smooth.

this is the first time i have ever been totally patient about planning my next bike, for some reason.

Enigma don't deal with Reynolds tubing for their frames, they build with Columbus for their steel frames, including XCR stainless steel for their excellent Extensor, and soon Etape XCR.

Hoopdriver

I was at Enigma's open day last year and it was easy to see why they preferred using Columbus tubing. During his demonstration of frame building Mark Reilly showed a piece of 953 for comparison alongside a length of XCR and the finish just looked so much nicer on the Columbus. To be sure, it would all be painted later, but he said the Columbus was just nicer to work with as well.

FransJacques

Man that custom option sounds better and better. A TIG'ed 953 or XCR with razor thin seatstays, breezer dropouts, and a chainstay mounted cable disc brake would seriously float my boat right about now. Horizontal TT looks the best but a sloper would be lighter and give one more seatpost flex.

The Rourke wrap around *might* transmit less road vibes than the shot-in style which should logically transfer shock right into the seatpost since it ends there. Or it might all just be cosmetics. The old GT triple triangle might actually have been a "comfortable" design if it were to transfer rear wheel shock into the TT and bypass the ST. Trouble is, with short butts, you're TIGing to a weak part of the TT...

Would get a seriously oversized downtube/HT/TT with a thin ST for some drivetrain stiffness and comfort/27.2 action respectively. Fork would be carbon but maybe one that could take the longer-armed R600s so I could squeeze a 33.3 mm Panaracer in there.

If that's what custom really means then count me in!

Anonymous

FransJacques wrote:

Man that custom option sounds better and better. A TIG'ed 953 or XCR with razor thin seatstays, breezer dropouts, and a chainstay mounted cable disc brake would seriously float my boat right about now. Horizontal TT looks the best but a sloper would be lighter and give one more seatpost flex.

The Rourke wrap around *might* transmit less road vibes than the shot-in style which should logically transfer shock right into the seatpost since it ends there. Or it might all just be cosmetics. The old GT triple triangle might actually have been a "comfortable" design if it were to transfer rear wheel shock into the TT and bypass the ST. Trouble is, with short butts, you're TIGing to a weak part of the TT...

Would get a seriously oversized downtube/HT/TT with a thin ST for some drivetrain stiffness and comfort/27.2 action respectively. Fork would be carbon but maybe one that could take the longer-armed R600s so I could squeeze a 33.3 mm Panaracer in there.

If that's what custom really means then count me in!

Imagine what custom would be like if you actually gave it some thought then :shock: Heh heh

Hoopdriver

I am having a custom tourer built for me by Mark Reilly at Enigma and it has been a joy - because custom really has meant custom. I've actually ended up being very glad of the relatively long (3 month) lead time because as the reality and luxury of custom has sunk in, I have changed my specs to stuff that I really really wanted but had kind of assumed I couldn't have, or couldn't be arranged or done or whatever.

I've given mine loads of though and am so damned excited for this bike to be finished I can hardly stand it. It has been really fun, and instructive too because as I've gone along I've thought and re-thought just about every aspect of my bike, what I like and don't like.

All well worth it.

Chip \'oyler

You can't beat getting a custom, made-to-measure frame. They're well worth the wait

Anonymous

I have to say, I would really like an Enigma Extensor with the same geometry as my C50...

dcj

Enigma don't deal with Reynolds tubing for their frames, they build with Columbus for their steel frames, including XCR stainless steel for their excellent Extensor, and soon Etape XCR

happy to be corrected on that from my earlier post, cheers giant mancp

sloth2

Hoopdriver wrote:

That's really interesting - and welcome! - news. Interesting that he asked you about that Islington shop. Had he been hearing things, or just getting uneasy vibes?

Welcome news indeed. I volunteered my experience with the shop to Dario & how it had meant that I hadn't ordered another frame from him (I had one built by Dave Anderson in Minnesota, also a superb framemaker, instead). I got the impression that I wasn't telling him anything that he didn't already know, or suspect....

Hoopdriver

I think that shop has probably cost him a fair bit of business - certainly in repeat orders. And from my brief but very unhappy experience with their backroom boys, I'd never trust them to build up a bike which again would be something he'd want to take into consideration I would think.

By the way - what kind of timeframe are you looking at with the respray of your Marcello?

giant_man

It's a shame Italian builders like Pegoretti and Milani can't find a good reputable and reliable dealer to do business for them in the UK, or maybe they could but prefer to deal direct - who knows?