Hit & run illegal immigrant

mrushton

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8459024.stm

Not an illegal immigrant but a locum doctor,who is able to go back to his home country and continue to practice but as he is a Doctor that's ok then (not like them bleedin'immigrants)

AlunP

It's not easy to defend this one but here goes.

Human rights law (it's UK law - passed by Parliament BTW) applies to everyone. You, me - and the Yorkshire Ripper. That's the whole point. No matter how good - or how criminal you are - there is framework of rights in place. Rights are not privileges and cannot be withdrawn by the state if it - or indeed all of us - doesn't like someone. So we lock the ripper up at great expense rather than <say> conducting a public execution.

Human rights law will inevitably throw up examples where people behave in appalling ways, play the system and the law sticks up for them and gives victims nothing. Part of the price we pay for living in a (generally) civilised society where the rule of law (mostly) applies.

Having said all that I wouldn't have shed a tear if he had been deported to Iraq.

There is an european legal element to this but it's not the EU.

John Stevenson

ellieb wrote:

Perhaps i'd better leave it to the dead girl's father.

Yeah, because grief-stricken relatives are sure to have calm, well-reasoned, thoroughly thought-out views on emotive issues.
:roll:

alfablue

tebbit wrote:

With reference to the tribunal ruling it is a document in the public domain any student with access to Athens will be able to get access to it, I used to use Westlaw and Lexis when I was writing my dissertation.

small point, but it all depends what your institution has subscribed to via athens, it is a subscription management service and what you get depends on what your institition has paid for, it may or may not be available.

Weejie54

If he is an imigrant legal or otherwise he should be put in jail!

For being an immigrant?

From what I gather he was given a jail sentence. As for the four months sentence; he was charged and convicted for driving while disqualified, driving without insurance and failing to stop after an accident. The girl ran out into the road, which is probably why it was treated as an accident and not causing death by dangerous driving. The maximum sentence the magistrates could have given was (apparently) six months, but as the man pleaded guilty, he was given four months. He legged it after the accident but gave himself up later.
The sentence would be the same irrespective of whether he was a Kurdish asylum seeker, a dodgy doctor or a candlestick maker from Oswaldtwistle.
As someone else has pointed out, if there is an issue with the length of sentence then the laws relating to road traffic accidents should be challenged. The HRA and asylum laws do not come into it. It does appear that this man has other convictions and a case was made that he was not considered to be suitable for asylum to be granted. However, a judge would, IMO, be a less than impartial if he/she were to disregard the relevant law in preference to an opinion on whether someone should have been given more than the normal sentence for traffic offences or not.

Weejie54

We could repeal the Human Rights Act at anytime whether we remain in the EU or not

And, as two senior judges have suggested, it would make little difference - other than a few more trips to Strasbourg.

blueheeler

Does he have citizenship of the UK yet? Surprised if he hasn't. In Australia the Iraqi/Afghan Sri Lankan 'asylum seekers' ( not allowed to call them economic illegal migrants) arrive on boats from Indonesia conveniently throwing away all ID documents. Full social security and medical from the moment they step ashore and that brand new Australian passport 2 years later. And our stupid labor government wonders why 127 boats to date have come this year!

tx14

Tonymufc wrote:

WOW. There really are some of the most patronising people on here. Mentioning no names although I'm sure you all know who I mean. A father has lost his daughter, his baby. This happened because this spineless, gutless do-gooding infested country didn't deport this scumbag. Don't quote to me the ins and outs of the law because quite frankly I don't care. This sh1thead shouldn't even be here. As for the poster that said he should be imprisoned and then we should move on. Tell that to the poor girls father.

how about a vacation in somali?

Gazzaputt

As an immigrant and an asylum seeker he should come and be grateful this country would let him stay. Integrate into our society and become a model citizen.

No he deals drugs, commits burglary, unlawfully drives a car and then kills a young girl.

Why the hell should we let him stay and best of all have to give state support when he could not careless?

I believe any immigrant convicted of any crime however small should be immediately deported.

spen666

tebbit wrote:

Out in the Ukraine if you kill someone in a road accident it is 7 years mandatory, it is why I didn't bring a car out with me.

With regard to the ECHR it was written by British lawyers in the 50's, mainly due to the fact they were untainted by the German regime in the 30's to mid 40's and also the other countries judiciary because of occupation, hence it translated into English law very easily. The big problem is the claims management companies and not the law.

With reference to the tribunal ruling it is a document in the public domain any student with access to Athens will be able to get access to it, I used to use Westlaw and Lexis when I was writing my dissertation.

I do class myself as right wing and the man does appear absolutely morally reprehensible, so further information would be appreciated and the girl's poor father has gone through hell.

Wht do claims management companies have to do with human rights law?

There is a problem with claims management companies, but its not really connected to this sort of immigration appeal

Pross

Tonymufc wrote:

WOW. There really are some of the most patronising people on here. Mentioning no names although I'm sure you all know who I mean. A father has lost his daughter, his baby. This happened because this spineless, gutless do-gooding infested country didn't deport this scumbag. Don't quote to me the ins and outs of the law because quite frankly I don't care. This sh1thead shouldn't even be here. As for the poster that said he should be imprisoned and then we should move on. Tell that to the poor girls father.

If you are talking about Spen666 I don't think he is being patronising. He is a lawyer putting things into a legal perspective. We will always have human emotional responses but I suppose that's why the law is there in these cases. Like most I am of the opinion he should be deported based on the reports I've heard, that he had children after the initial attempt to deport him should not count in his favour and would appear a cynical ploy. The decision seems to have been made on the fact that it is unsafe for him to be returned but I often wonder how much checking is done if that is actually the case (surely we should have used influence in Iraq to ensure he wasn't persecuted?). Personally I feel that the actual prison sentence he received in the first place was too short for the crime (or that the crime he was charged with was possibly not as severe as it could have been) and that the same would apply for anyone whether an asylum seeker or not.

Anonymous

Teagars/Rick Chasey gone all quiet on this one, wonder what he plans to cut and paste now ?

rick_chasey

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey gone all quiet on this one, wonder what he plans to cut and paste now ?

I've said what I think?

Anonymous

Rick Chasey wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey gone all quiet on this one, wonder what he plans to cut and paste now ?

I've said what I think?

Yes, and I think what you did put down was not appreciated as you seem to have missed the point by miles, how's the protests going, you been nicked yet ?

rick_chasey

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey gone all quiet on this one, wonder what he plans to cut and paste now ?

I've said what I think?

Yes, and I think what you did put down was not appreciated as you seem to have missed the point by miles, how's the protests going, you been nicked yet ?

if the guy's been given asylum, then, given the rules on what entitles you to be able to claim aslyum (see previous post), then he should be put in prison.

If he's been denied aslyum, he should be put in prison, and then sent back.

It's quite simple.

Anonymous

Rick Chasey wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey gone all quiet on this one, wonder what he plans to cut and paste now ?

I've said what I think?

Yes, and I think what you did put down was not appreciated as you seem to have missed the point by miles, how's the protests going, you been nicked yet ?

if the guy's been given asylum, then, given the rules on what entitles you to be able to claim aslyum (see previous post), then he should be put in prison.

If he's been denied aslyum, he should be put in prison, and then sent back.

It's quite simple.

Must be fairly dull in your world of black and white, don't you apply any empathy to this issue or is stoicism your best defence ? Not trolling now, genuinely interested.

jgsi

All this dry legal verbiage still does not make it right.
The Iraqi sociopath needs punishment but obviously in the urbane black is black white is white world we seem to have ended up in he gets to 'walk' away.
I dont have anymore to say on this matter except my sympathies are with the young victim and family.
May she rest in peace and I trust he can perhaps eventually turn to his God and seek redemption

Weejie54

The Iraqi sociopath needs punishment but obviously in the urbane black is black white is white world we seem to have ended up in he gets to 'walk' away.

Punishment for what? Failing to stop after an accident? Maximium sentence is 6 months.
He received a four month sentence (this was 7 years ago BTW). Or was the fact that this was a Kurd, or an asylum seeker make his offence something different? Is it murder now?

rick_chasey

dmclite wrote:

Must be fairly dull in your world of black and white, don't you apply any empathy to this issue or is stoicism your best defence ? Not trolling now, genuinely interested.

I thought the point of the law was to be binary? Hence defence, prosecutor?

I like to tackle issues, when I can, with detachment (see that Myers Briggs stuff), since I think you achieve the best, objective conclusion when you are as detached as possible.

I'd be worried if laws were written without a level of objective detachment.

Anonymous

Weejie54 wrote:

The Iraqi sociopath needs punishment but obviously in the urbane black is black white is white world we seem to have ended up in he gets to 'walk' away.

Punishment for what? Failing to stop after an accident? Maximium sentence is 6 months.
He received a four month sentence (this was 7 years ago BTW). Or was the fact that this was a Kurd, or an asylum seeker make his offence something different? Is it murder now?

The point here is that if this guy was a genuine asylum seeker, he would not be breaking the laws of the country he has chosen for asylum, you'd think he'd want to keep his nose cleam, not driving illegally, failing to stop etc. The fact we accept people for asylum and they are criminal is just wrong, we have enough criminal activity within Uk populace without having to accept more.

JD_76

If it were my daughter he'd killed he would already be dead and id be half way through my life sentence by now, and maybe even geting out early for good behaviour.

Its the only way id be able to go on living, I think.

Stewie Griffin

JD_76 wrote:

If it were my daughter he'd killed he would already be dead and id be half way through my life sentence by now, and maybe even geting out early for good behaviour.

Its the only way id be able to go on living, I think.

+1

Weejie54

The point here is that if this guy was a genuine asylum seeker, he would not be breaking the laws of the country he has chosen for asylum,

Tosh If he were a sensible asylum seeker, then he would keep his nose clean. Not doing so doesn't make his circumstances any different.

If it were my daughter he'd killed he would already be dead and id be half way through my life sentence by now, and maybe even geting out early for good behaviour.

Its the only way id be able to go on living, I think.

I very much doubt it. You may want to, however.

napper

+2

mroli

I always hoped that I would be able to respond to a tragedy of this manner with the dignity and generosity of spirit that the parents of Tom Ap-Rhys Price did when he was murdered: http://tomaprhyspryce.com/

Whilst being totally different, I hope that we are doing something similar http://www.georgesfoundation.org

JD_76

mroli wrote:

I always hoped that I would be able to respond to a tragedy of this manner with the dignity and generosity of spirit that the parents of Tom Ap-Rhys Price did when he was murdered: http://tomaprhyspryce.com/

Whilst being totally different, I hope that we are doing something similar http://www.georgesfoundation.org

Sorry to hear about your loss, what you are doing is amazing and I take my hat off to you.

tebbit

Spen

The comment re the Human Rights Act and Claims Management companies relates to the earlier attacks on the Human Rights Act as being the drive behind the increase in litigation, this Act was also introduced at the same time as solicitor's being able to advertise and the birth of claims management companies, with the media hysteria being targeted at the Human Rights Act. I concur with your comments re the Human Rights Act and think that the attacks on the Act are misplaced and that other issues are responsible.

spen666

tebbit wrote:

Spen

The comment re the Human Rights Act and Claims Management companies relates to the earlier attacks on the Human Rights Act as being the drive behind the increase in litigation, this Act was also introduced at the same time as solicitor's being able to advertise and the birth of claims management companies, with the media hysteria being targeted at the Human Rights Act. I concur with your comments re the Human Rights Act and think that the attacks on the Act are misplaced and that other issues are responsible.

Thanks for that explanation

I thought the claims managements companies came about from the canging in law to allow conditional fees and no win no fee litigation

Pokerface

If you think this story is bad, check out this one about a guy who killed a cyclist and all he got was community service (and he's not seeking asylum!):

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... -work.html

BarryBonds

ellieb wrote:

You really are spectacularly missing the point.

I'm a Guardian reader as a matter of fact. I have absolutely no problem with people coming to Britain and legitimately claiming asylum. I do have a problem with people coming to further a criminal career or who come and then make plain their contempt for the law. If he wants to come here, he should behave. He has failed to do so on a number of ocassions. He was suitable for deportation. A loophole has saved him. If he was that scared about going back, he should obey the law. simples

You are making incredibly lazy assumptions about people's rascism.

Its what he does (Rick Chasey), that and shove a daily mail reader tag onto people. Its a bizarre permenant stance to take and shows monsolabic intelect. Hell be different if he fathers a child thats killed by scum like this. Or perhaps he wont...................