Ftp re-testing

wheeler585

Hi, made the big jump a month or so ago, and bought myself a powertap. Been doing my ftp sessions for about 3 weeks, was just wondering when would be the best time to recalculate my threshold? Obviously dont want to make the mistake and rush the whole process!

Any advice from you hardcore powertap use's, would be much appreciated!

jibberjim

wheeler585 wrote:

was just wondering when would be the best time to recalculate my threshold?

Whenever it's changed.

But it really depends on what you want out of an FTP figure. If it's just to brag about the size of it to your mates down the pub then rarely is probably best - as it'll let you say "Yeah my FTP is 170, but I've not tested in a long time so I expect it's higher" and similar.

Assuming your FTP is increasing (reverse the arguments below if it's decreasing)

If you're not using it to pick the power to do a workout at but are using it to track training stress, then you need it to be pretty accurate and up to date otherwise you will over estimate the stress of a particular workout which will lead you to think your training has been going better than you thought, that you are more fatigued than you thought and remove the value in the data at all (how can you look back and say, ah yes I set good power PB's with a TSB of -5 when reality has it that was +10 due to FTP inaccuracies.

If you're using it to pick intensities of training as well, then it becomes even worse as now your workouts become easier and easier all the time despite according to the TSS they stay the same toughness so you actually train less and less every session - you actually start losing fitness because your FTP is out of date.

Of course that only matters if your FTP is changing with any rapidity if you're just stagnating and bumbling along at the same FTP (or at your peak of FTP possible) then it doesn't matter at all how often you test for it because it won't change.

Personally with only 3 weeks of powertap data I wouldn't even give a toss what my FTP was other than for the first reason - and tbh the blokes down the pub don't care either - I wouldn't be planning workouts based on any number you have now for it, and I wouldn't be taking any TSS scores seriously - I'd be doing very regular efforts that would be suggestive of what my FTP might be if I cared about it at all.

Pokerface

jibberjim wrote:

wheeler585 wrote:

was just wondering when would be the best time to recalculate my threshold?

Whenever it's changed.

Ah yes. But how do you KNOW it's changed unless you re-test it? Is this a little bit of chicken and egg?


(Everything else you said made perfect sense though)

wheeler585

Thanks for the reply, ha no i dont think i would be spending that kinda money, just so i could brag about figures! Sadly ive turned into a looser anyway and never go to the pub anymore! Just asking the question, as i want to get the best out of my new toy, im not a newbie to racing, so i guess the figure's im getting from it now would be beneficial to me, as isnt the winter time to build??

Pokerface

wheeler585 wrote:

Thanks for the reply, ha no i dont think i would be spending that kinda money, just so i could brag about figures! Sadly ive turned into a looser anyway and never go to the pub anymore! Just asking the question, as i want to get the best out of my new toy, im not a newbie to racing, so i guess the figure's im getting from it now would be beneficial to me, as isnt the winter time to build??

One of the books I read (Training and Racing with Power) has a 12 week training plan in the back. I think it tests your FTP around every 4 weeks.

As Jim said - it's good to know the figure if you are setting your workouts based on that figure and working in specific zones. (Although even the zones will have a good 20-30 watts of wiggle room in them).

wheeler585

Yeah all my zones are set now, which has now give me alot more structure to my training plan. Funnily enough, ive just bought that book off fleabay, 4 weeks is what i was thinking pokerface, thanks! Loving the powertap at the moment anyway, but all shall be revealed come march/may ;-)

jibberjim

wheeler585 wrote:

Yeah all my zones are set now, which has now give me alot more structure to my training plan.

I think this is one of the commonest mistakes people make when they get power - they assume numbers mean structure, when numbers can actually reduce the training because you start hitting numbers not what you actually want to train.

The structure should come from the workouts and the power numbers are the way you ensure you're meeting the aims and tracking improvements. As you rightly noted by asking the sensitivity of FTP in your number targets mean you have to have an accurate FTP.

I would recommend going the other way - sort out the workouts you want in your structure - learn the intensities you have to ride them at then repeat - your power numbers will quickly show if your FTP is changing (e.g. if you do a particular session and see your IF is in the 0.94-0.96 rage consistently for awhile but then you find you're doing it at 0.98 there's a good chance your FTP is wrong. But whilst it may have impacted your TSS slightly (but only a little and you get to see the changes quickly) it won't have harmed the actual workouts.

My pub suggestion of a reason to know your FTP is real - it's the only reason I know all of mine (and I have a number but that's a seperate discussion) It's only an important number if you choose to use it for something. And how important it is that you re-test it depends on what you're using it for.

As Pokerface says though, unless you're seeing very rapid improvements and you're using it for everything every few weeks is likely sensible. Also remember most protocols for testing FTP are excellent training sessions in themselves (e.g. 1x60 or 2x20 on 2 minutes rest) so there's no reason to not test often.

Pokerface

Jim - your advice is excellent. However some of you terminology and use of acronyms may be confusing to the beginner. (Hell, it's confusing to me and I've been using a powertap for the past year!)


Just an observation - not a dig.

jibberjim

Pokerface wrote:

Just an observation - not a dig.

Yeah I know But it would just take so long to explain every one so I figure it's easier to just write it out as if everyone would understand it and then they can go look it up / ask for clarification.

I end up in an eternal battle of writing it well in which case it will take too long and I won't have time to do it, or writing it quick and hoping people understand.

wheeler585

Thanks for that Jim, sounds like you know your stuff regarding the powertap of doom! Like you said, im not going to get to hung up on numbers now, just want to use it to the best of my ability, not as a expensive speedo, as some ppl do. Main reason for getting it was to manage my time more on training sessions, and to keep away from sat 5 hr training rides with the team, as found half the time your just chatting and free wheeling. Keeps the mr's happy to!!

Alex_Simmons/RST

jibberjim wrote:

As Pokerface says though, unless you're seeing very rapid improvements and you're using it for everything every few weeks is likely sensible. Also remember most protocols for testing FTP are excellent training sessions in themselves (e.g. 1x60 or 2x20 on 2 minutes rest) so there's no reason to not test often.

Pithy Power Proverb: "Training is testing, testing is training." - Andy Coggan

When doing regular interval work, or if you have regular longer efforts in your rides (such as hill climbs), then you will know if FTP has changed.

As has been said, with increasing fitness (FTP) you will see the Intensity Factor rise overall on your rides if you leave the FTP setting static.

This most obvious example of that is if during a ride or race you report an IF>1.05 (i.e. your Normalised Power is more than 105% of your FTP) from a really hard effort of about an hour.

But an easier way to say it is that you will begin generating more power at the same level of perceived exertion.

bigpikle

this is interesting as I was beginning to think that ftp was the be-all and end-all of training with power eg everything was based around ftp in same shape or form, but it seems there's more to it...

Still, my copy of Training and Racing with Power was waiting for me last night so hopefully all will be revealed the next few days.

Anonymous

Since I started coaching my FTP didn't increase that much however I was doing race specific training, I got much better at what I was targetting.

It's very easy to get hung up on FTP and worry when it's not increasing.

joeyhalloran

This is why its not a bad idea doing andy coggan's power profile test alongside an FTP test.

Pokerface

You sorta need to have an FTP figure to base training around - but only to set zones. As Nap says - it depends on the type of events you are doing.

Right now I am training for track racing and short, intense efforts. So am not worried about upping my FTP. But I still need to have a rough idea what it is so that when my coach tells me to do a L3 interval, etc - I know what power to do it at.

Anonymous

I have a testing week where I do 5 min, 2 x 1 min and 2 x sprints one day, 2 x 10 min another and an FTP test another.

Did my first on 1st Nov, not sure when my next one is scheduled...

joeyhalloran

I have a testing week every 4 weeks or so...in fact this week is one...FTP test tomorrow FUN TIMES!