Cyclists killed in Italy

BiggerBoat

Reports say the drive was 21 with his 10 year old son, can this be correct?

Dog Breath

IIRC with the Rhyl case, he got done for having 3 defective tyres and was fined £60 for each tyre. A sum total of £180 for taking 4 lives. Irrespective of the fact the he skidded on ice, the important thing is that his car should not have been on the road in the first place and knowingly drove a defective vehicle. Had he not done so, that accident would not have happended and those people would not have died that day.

He should have had the book thrown at him

Sewinman

Sad news.

This too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-11924046

deptfordmarmoset

BiggerBoat wrote:

Reports say the drive was 21 with his 10 year old son, can this be correct?

La Stampa said ''nipotino''. So it was the driver's nephew

http://www3.lastampa.it/cronache/sezion ... tp/378733/

dodgy

Killing eight in one go is pretty likely to result in the law taking a hard line I'd have thought.

Edit: This point has already been made further up the thread, sorry.

You'd think, but cast your mind back to the Rhyl cycling club outing in January of a few years ago, 4 dead and a tiny fine for the driver (he had several bald tyres too, not that it contributed to the accident, but it does point to his casual attitude to road safety).

jeremyrundle

*&^%%**& Christmas too.

1. I have never ever allowed my car tyres to go below 3mm, a waste of money some may say, safety I say.

2. Just in the past hour seven police cars and two ambulances have gone past in Tavistock, possibly icy roads.

3. A message to ALL cyclists, whilst I know your efforts may not be enough, BE SEEN. I went to town today, only two miles, all FIVE of my RSP rear lights were on including my 6th on my helmet, and ALL four of my fronts that is two Lenser P7s and two 3w flashing lights. BE SEEN.

Highway code 66, You should •never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

Mr Plum

This was tragic.

R.I.P.

dsmiff

cjcp wrote:

spen666 wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

dilemna wrote:

RIP the 8 cyclists already killed. 4 are still in a critical condition so the death toll might rise.

The moton must have been driving like a frikin' lunatic.

According to the DM report many of the emergency personnel knew the cylcists so it was even more distressing for them.

We have had similar in the UK several years ago Dalgere (sorry about the spelling) where a car with bald tyres, skidded and took down a peloton killing riders. The moton got off with a slapped wrist.

Perhaps it's time motons whose driving results in people dying where their drivng has amounted to gross negligence/criminal manslaughter or murder that they face the ultimate penalty themselves.

I sincerely hope this investigation is better than the Rhyl case, where the police made a gigantic fool up of the inquiry from beginning to end, from declaring the driver innocent at the scene before the investigation had begun to failing to issue proceedings in time for the driver to be charged with anything worthwhile.

+!

Re the Rhyl case, I think the police/ CPS were knackered in issuing proceedings for anything substantive after that earlier statement. That gave driver a defence to most allegations and mae it almost impossible for charges to succeed based on the driving

It was an appaling piece of policing

What happened? I thought there was an argument that the car hit a patch of ice and couldn't stop.

On Wednesday, the jury, sitting at Abergele, highlighted failures by
officials from North Wales Police and Denbighshire and Conwy councils.

The jury concluded: "The four persons died as a direct result of an
out-of-control vehicle which skidded on ice and collided into the cyclists.

"The vehicle was being driven in an inappropriate manner for the adverse
weather conditions."

spen666

dsmiff wrote:

....

On Wednesday, the jury, sitting at Abergele, highlighted failures by
officials from North Wales Police and Denbighshire and Conwy councils.

The jury concluded: "The four persons died as a direct result of an
out-of-control vehicle which skidded on ice and collided into the cyclists.

"The vehicle was being driven in an inappropriate manner for the adverse
weather conditions."

It would help if you gave either:
1. A source for your quote OR
2. Details of where this came from


The quote refers to a jury and would in most people's mind give rise to the belief this was in criminal proceedings. It was not of course, this is a quote referring to the Inquest.

The rules relating to an inquest are wholly different from criminal proceedings, both in terms of admissibility, what has to be proven etc.

Also in an inquest, there is no one on trial, ie there is no defendant etc

dsmiff

you asked what happened (not really arsed about legal mubojumbo) that was summary from the inquest verdict.

Here is more

The jury ruled out accidental death and returned a narrative verdict.

Marking the end of an emotional and dramatic three-week hearing at Abergele, north-east Wales coroner John Hughes said: "The evidence shows classic signs that Robert Harris was driving without due care and attention and to his credit he admitted his responsibility in going too fast.

"I fail to understand why no proceedings were brought against him."

from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_east/6246140.stm

spen666

Actually, I never asked what happened- think that was someone else CJCP perhaps?

The legal mumbojumbo as you put it is rather important. The coroner was not conducting a criminal inquiry and his comments are simply that- ie comments. They are not a determination of guilt in a criminal case.

In the criminal context ie that in which careless driving (aka driving without due care and attention) is an offence, his words are neither evidence nor findings of fact that can be cited in court.


However, I digress, thanks for the source of the quote.

I have to say, that I think the driver was incredibly lucky not to have faced charges relating to the standard of his driving.

londonlivvy

The Italian press have reported that the funeral of the 7 cyclists took place this morning in Lamezia Terme's town stadium with approx 6-7000 people present. It's the pictures that got to me the most - with cycling club friends in kit with bikes.

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_dice ... aabc.shtml

RIP guys. And cycle safely everyone.

dsmiff

@spen666 wasn't having a go about the legal stuff (bad choice of words). Kind of mean if you look beyond the legal "stuff" as you have said it seems quite clear that the driver bears some responsibility and is lucky not to have prosecuted

Sorry

spen666

dsmiff wrote:

@spen666 wasn't having a go about the legal stuff (bad choice of words). Kind of mean if you look beyond the legal "stuff" as you have said it seems quite clear that the driver bears some responsibility and is lucky not to have prosecuted

Sorry

The announcement on the day of the crash by the police that the driver was not to blame was one of the most incredible things I have heard in my time as a lawyer.

There simply was not time to have spoken to all the witnesses before reaching such a conclusion. It prejudiced any chance of a trial for the driving.

Even driving at 10 mph can be too fast derpending on the conditions