Kloden in Dubai with Der Kaiser

frenchfighter

8 day training camp and look who he has for company.
http://twitpic.com/3ac9hj
http://twitpic.com/3bm9ne
http://twitpic.com/3abzrq

And here on the bike:
http://twitpic.com/3baq37

inkyfingers

Good to see Ullrich looking happy. I've always had a soft spot for him, despite his alleged doping.

Gazzaputt

Great to see Ullrich looking good.

mrushton

Strange that he is liked as much as Lance is hated yet he probably was the zenith of that East German 'preparation' regime. He was beautiful to watch in a TT as he he was just fluid. Sad that he was around at the same time as Lance and was unable to best him

Hibbs

mrushton wrote:

Strange that he is liked as much as Lance is hated yet he probably was the zenith of that East German 'preparation' regime. He was beautiful to watch in a TT as he he was just fluid. Sad that he was around at the same time as Lance and was unable to best him

I think there is a perception that he was a reluctant doper and didn't act like a sex addict in a brothel after 20 years in prison with the dope, and that that he was humble... hence the polar-opposite opinion of him to that other person. I personally feel he was cheated out of a great career as opposed to him cheating to a good career.

andyp

Poor Jan. Forced to dope and become a multi-millionaire. It's a tough life, eh? :roll:

iainf72

I must be the only one who can see very little difference between Ullrich and Armstrong. They both doped their way to race wins and riches. Both womanised. One of them drove around drunk, crashing cars etc.

He might be a nice guy, but lets not fool ourselves that he accidentally doped or didn't really want to do it.

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

I must be the only one who can see very little difference between Ullrich and Armstrong. They both doped their way to race wins and riches. Both womanised. One of them drove around drunk, crashing cars etc.

He might be a nice guy, but lets not fool ourselves that he accidentally doped or didn't really want to do it.

a) He didn't win... a lot

b) he basically got rumbled.

c) He didn't do the bizzare press thing, nor did he appear to coerce others to his way of thinking...

ridgerider

I liked him from the underdog point of view, and a German friend suggested an arrogant streak in him.

I would put him in the "did no more or less than everyone else around him at the time" list...

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I must be the only one who can see very little difference between Ullrich and Armstrong. They both doped their way to race wins and riches. Both womanised. One of them drove around drunk, crashing cars etc.

He might be a nice guy, but lets not fool ourselves that he accidentally doped or didn't really want to do it.

a) He didn't win... a lot

b) he basically got rumbled.

c) He didn't do the bizzare press thing, nor did he appear to coerce others to his way of thinking...

I agree that morally there is not much between Armnstrong and Ullrich, the only reason I like Ullrich more is because he seems like a nicer bloke, hardly objective I know.

Actually Rick, Ullrich did win quite a lot, he's just better known as the guy who usually came second to Lance. I've no doubt that they both had access to the best "preparation" methods available, I think the main difference on a sporting level was that Lance was more self disciplined in his training and during the off season.

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

I must be the only one who can see very little difference between Ullrich and Armstrong. They both doped their way to race wins and riches. Both womanised. One of them drove around drunk, crashing cars etc.

He might be a nice guy, but lets not fool ourselves that he accidentally doped or didn't really want to do it.

Ullrich didn't cure cancer though, so there is some difference.

In my view, Ullrich gets a free pass from some because he isn't as loathsome a character as Armstrong.

Anonymous

Yet still I have a soft spot for him!







And my fave!

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

I agree that morally there is not much between Armnstrong and Ullrich, the only reason I like Ullrich more is because he seems like a nicer bloke, hardly objective I know.

Actually Rick, Ullrich did win quite a lot, he's just better known as the guy who usually came second to Lance. I've no doubt that they both had access to the best "preparation" methods available, I think the main difference on a sporting level was that Lance was more self disciplined in his training and during the off season.

He won one Tour, one Vuelta (big deal) and the sydney Olympics.

Hardly 7 Tours and a Worlds is it?

Anonymous

WTF?

Ullrich's palmares is the envy of many a pro cyclist!

A tour (and a fair few stages), a vuelta, an Olympic gold and a World TT champs would make me happy!

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I agree that morally there is not much between Armnstrong and Ullrich, the only reason I like Ullrich more is because he seems like a nicer bloke, hardly objective I know.

Actually Rick, Ullrich did win quite a lot, he's just better known as the guy who usually came second to Lance. I've no doubt that they both had access to the best "preparation" methods available, I think the main difference on a sporting level was that Lance was more self disciplined in his training and during the off season.

He won one Tour, one Vuelta (big deal) and the sydney Olympics.

Hardly 7 Tours and a Worlds is it?

Are you for real? If you compare his palmares to Lance then it looks weak, but compare it to anyone else and it's pretty impressive.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I agree that morally there is not much between Armnstrong and Ullrich, the only reason I like Ullrich more is because he seems like a nicer bloke, hardly objective I know.

Actually Rick, Ullrich did win quite a lot, he's just better known as the guy who usually came second to Lance. I've no doubt that they both had access to the best "preparation" methods available, I think the main difference on a sporting level was that Lance was more self disciplined in his training and during the off season.

He won one Tour, one Vuelta (big deal) and the sydney Olympics.

Hardly 7 Tours and a Worlds is it?

Are you for real? If you compare his palmares to Lance then it looks weak, but compare it to anyone else and it's pretty impressive.

I'm not unreal?

My comments were in relation to Lance - I was suggesting that compared to Lance he hasn't won a lot, which is something that sets him apart from Lance. As opposed to Ian saying they're largely the same.

finchy

A nice guy who drink-drives... hmmm, how does that one work then?

disgruntledgoat

johnfinch wrote:

A nice guy who drink-drives... hmmm, how does that one work then?

Being nice doesn't prevent one from being an idiot

RichN95.

mrushton wrote:

Strange that he is liked as much as Lance is hated yet he probably was the zenith of that East German 'preparation' regime.

The East German bit is partly why I have some sympathy for him. He was most likely introduced and indoctrinated into doping at a young age. He would hardly have been in a position to say no. If you're told repeatedly at an impressionable age that there's nothing wrong with doping, it can be hard to comprehend that there actually is.

mrushton

he was like the others in that E.German Gymnasium regime. Voight,Zabel etc. Working class kids who had a bike talent and then ruthlessly trained up and encouraged to win by any means possible. Ullrich went from metaphorical rags to riches but so have a number of others

calvjones

RichN95 wrote:

mrushton wrote:

Strange that he is liked as much as Lance is hated yet he probably was the zenith of that East German 'preparation' regime.

The East German bit is partly why I have some sympathy for him. He was most likely introduced and indoctrinated into doping at a young age. He would hardly have been in a position to say no. If you're told repeatedly at an impressionable age that there's nothing wrong with doping, it can be hard to comprehend that there actually is.

Intuitively, as a big Big Jan fan I want to +1 this, but then we have to give Ricco a break :roll:

Gypsum_Fantastic

frenchfighter wrote:

And here on the bike:
http://twitpic.com/3baq37

That's the first time I've seen him in a pair of sunglasses that come remotely close to suiting him

RichN95.

calvjones wrote:

Intuitively, as a big Big Jan fan I want to +1 this, but then we have to give Ricco a break :roll:

I see your point, but with Ullrich it was the all powerful state telling him what to do in a country of the Stasi. No free press and consequences for defying the authorities. With Ricco it was just a coach, so there was more opportunity to turn his back on it. I don't believe Italian junior teams have ever had dissenters executed. Ricco's still probably a victim to a certain extent though.

calvjones

RichN95 wrote:

calvjones wrote:

Intuitively, as a big Big Jan fan I want to +1 this, but then we have to give Ricco a break :roll:

I see your point, but with Ullrich it was the all powerful state telling him what to do in a country of the Stasi. No free press and consequences for defying the authorities. With Ricco it was just a coach, so there was more opportunity to turn his back on it. I don't believe Italian junior teams have ever had dissenters executed. Ricco's still probably a victim to a certain extent though.

Fair point, but if Ricco was, what, 14 when he started, how far can we really blame him?

Still an @rse tho!

mrushton

At least Jan got out and has kept quiet. He hasn't sought the spotlight, he hasn't said I took it and I'm sorry and I'll be back, he has just stayed out of the spotlight. I'd like to see him do something again tho' wether coaching TTing or testing bikes for magazines or a bit of commentating. Not running the pie van tho'

Yorkman

Thats the thinnest Ulrich has been in the close season!

Anonymous

Yorkman wrote:

Thats the thinnest Ulrich has been in the close season!

I thought that!

iainf72

mrushton wrote:

. I'd like to see him do something again tho' wether coaching'

It would be a shame to let all the tips he picked up from Luigi Cecchini and Fuentes go to waste.

dave_1

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I agree that morally there is not much between Armnstrong and Ullrich, the only reason I like Ullrich more is because he seems like a nicer bloke, hardly objective I know.

Actually Rick, Ullrich did win quite a lot, he's just better known as the guy who usually came second to Lance. I've no doubt that they both had access to the best "preparation" methods available, I think the main difference on a sporting level was that Lance was more self disciplined in his training and during the off season.

He won one Tour, one Vuelta (big deal) and the sydney Olympics.

Hardly 7 Tours and a Worlds is it?

for some of us the Tour de France is the worlds, is the pro tour is the measure of the best all round cyclist in the world each year. jan Ullrich was the top or second from top rider for 5 years aisde from his fantastic grand tour wins. I have sympathy for this guy..I did race with him and so I know how good he was in 1993 before the inevitable blood doping choice had to be made by him.

rick_chasey

Dave_1 wrote:

..I did race with him and so I know how good he was in 1993 before the inevitable blood doping choice had to be made by him.

Do tell...

dave_1

Rick Chasey wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

..I did race with him and so I know how good he was in 1993 before the inevitable blood doping choice had to be made by him.

Do tell...

The king died day before start, so the prologue was cancelled..that's why there is no results for stage 1,
http://www.cyclingarchives.com/wedstrij ... jdid=11600


Stage 2 average speed was 26mph over cobbles and horrible steep climbs. Was fckn horrible. Think I got dropped around day 5 and went back to UK. I remember meeting Eddy Mercx at stage start, and riding along with all the names that would become famous and infamous in the nxt 10 years! e.g. look at who was 3rd on stage..RIP Frank!