Am I expecting too much as a new customer to my LBS.

NewToTri

Just want to see if I'm being unreasonable with my expectations as a new customer to my local bike shop. I'm currently in the process of arranging my first cyclescheme order with a shop locally which I haven't used before but seems to be the best in town. I went in to get the quote for the order and came in just under my £1000 limit. As we got to the end of the quote form I asked if they would do a free service on my road bike as I was putting the other order through.

They didn't say no but at the same time they weren't responsive to the idea either. They said bring it in and they would take a look and then we could have a chat if anything was needed doing. At this point I said I wasn't looking for any free parts etc just if they would cover the labour I'd be happy to pay for any cables, lube etc.

I also mentioned that I would certainly be looking at doing another £1000+ order in 12 months time when this scheme order expired.

All in all the reaction I got didn't make me feel like they were eager to earn big positives on my first order with them. Surely a couple of hours of free labour is a small price to build a positive experience. I see it that had they serviced the road bike this time for free (exl parts and cleaning materials - they normally charge £60 incl parts for top service) that next time I wanted a full service I would use their shop and it would have also may have led to repeat custom and recommendations to other people.

I have rutland cycles about 25 mins away that has won some awards now I'm thinking I should see if they are any more approachable and keen to win me as a loyal customer.

I know their margins aren't the greatest on cyclescheme (10% fee taken by cyclescheme) but workshop labour I would have thought would be something they would have seen as low cost to them.

So was I expecting too much?

rjsterry

Maybe they'd want to see some regular attendance from you before they start giving out freebies, IYSWIM?

(not trying to be arsey, just looking at it from their point of view: they might never see you again once you've had your free service.

gtvlusso

To be honest - yes.

C2W is not worth allot to them as a small retailer (assumed they are not a chain).

Personally, I would have gone down the chain/mail order route and used them for servicing/build if required.....However, as I am pretty handy, I do my own servicing and builds!

Agent57

I reckon so. I've never run a bike shop, but I'd have thought labour would be one of their largest costs, and where they may a lot of their profit (as margins on parts are likely to be small, I assume). Besides, if they're the best in town, the time they spend not getting paid to look at your bike is time they could be getting paid by someone else who doesn't expect freebies just because they're putting in a Cyclescheme order. I'd be more likely to waive labour once you're already a loyal customer, I think.

DonDaddyD

NewToTri wrote:

Just want to see if I'm being unreasonable with my expectations as a new customer to my local bike shop. I'm currently in the process of arranging my first cyclescheme order with a shop locally which I haven't used before but seems to be the best in town. I went in to get the quote for the order and came in just under my £1000 limit. As we got to the end of the quote form I asked if they would do a free service on my road bike as I was putting the other order through.

They didn't say no but at the same time they weren't responsive to the idea either. They said bring it in and they would take a look and then we could have a chat if anything was needed doing. At this point I said I wasn't looking for any free parts etc just if they would cover the labour I'd be happy to pay for any cables, lube etc.

I also mentioned that I would certainly be looking at doing another £1000+ order in 12 months time when this scheme order expired.

All in all the reaction I got didn't make me feel like they were eager to earn big positives on my first order with them. Surely a couple of hours of free labour is a small price to build a positive experience. I see it that had they serviced the road bike this time for free (exl parts and cleaning materials - they normally charge £60 incl parts for top service) that next time I wanted a full service I would use their shop and it would have also may have led to repeat custom and recommendations to other people.

I have rutland cycles about 25 mins away that has won some awards now I'm thinking I should see if they are any more approachable and keen to win me as a loyal customer.

I know their margins aren't the greatest on cyclescheme (10% fee taken by cyclescheme) but workshop labour I would have thought would be something they would have seen as low cost to them.

So was I expecting too much?

I think you are.

You have to appreciate that they have to make money and services are their bread and butter.

They haven't seen the condition of your bike to gauge the service (and any parts) it may need. I think every bike shop worth its salt would say bring the bike in.

Also by bringing the bike in you're less likely to leave without getting a service.

dhope

NewToTri wrote:

I know their margins aren't the greatest on cyclescheme (10% fee taken by cyclescheme) but workshop labour I would have thought would be something they would have seen as low cost to them.

Low cost maybe, flip side being this one of the few areas where they'll make a clear profit. If they were just about selling parts then they could do mail order, the servicing and advice makes the shop.

notsoblue

As above. From what I gather Cyclescheme customers are a nightmare for LBS, and you should really be grateful that they didn't charge you an extra 10%. Most LBS would have done.

I'm sure if you're a regular they'll be more generous with their labour! In my experience thats how it works out.

kelsen

This may or may not be true, but I remember reading somewhere that bike shops take a 10% hit on the bikes they sell through cyclescheme. If this is true then it's perfectly understandable.*

Agree also with labour cost being their biggest overhead. Planet X charged me £50 to swap components from one frame to another. My LBS said they wouldn't be able to match that as they employ only one mechanic.

*EDIT: Sorry missed the OP's bit confirming this.

gbsahne001

Agent57 wrote:

(as margins on parts are likely to be small, I assume). .

You've obviously not bought parts lately

il_principe

Typical Triathlete.

Remember your small, non-chain LBS will seldom be able to compete on cost, but should be able to provide you with top notch advice, fittings etc - tough to put a price on the value of that, but often worth paying a small premium for. I certainly wouldn't trust the likes of Evans to service my Pinarello!

NewToTri

Ok the condition of the road bike is probably a valid concern for them. Although I know its in good condition they don't.

They seem to have a permanent member of staff doing workshop servicing so I would expect this is already factored as a running cost of their business.

I did have my 3 kids (all < 6years old) with me on a previous visit so had already spoken to the same staff about other orders for a kids bike for the oldest at £250 for Christmas.

NewToTri

I should probably also clarify that only £500 of the order was on a bike with the remaining £400 on accessories that I would expect the margins to be bigger (surely the specialised Prevail helmet they want £160 has a pretty healthy margin on)

SamWise72

And when that guy is servicing your road bike for free (and still being paid) he's not generating profit. A good bike mechanic is seldom idle, and my two favoured LBSes often have a 3 day leadtime for repairs. Plus, bike useage is increasing, probably faster than the supply of bike mechanics.

Think of your request this way "Hi, I'd like to buy a bike at a real-world discount of 40% to me, using someone else's money initially, and for you to take a 10% hit on it. Now how about you throw in your most profitable thing for nothing?"

Sound tempting?

Agent57

NewToTri wrote:

They seem to have a permanent member of staff doing workshop servicing so I would expect this is already factored as a running cost of their business.

Yes, they have to pay for his time anyway, but if he's working for free on your bike it's a net loss to them when compared to him spending the same time working on someone else's bike but charging for the time.

Agent57

gbsahne wrote:

Agent57 wrote:

(as margins on parts are likely to be small, I assume). .

You've obviously not bought parts lately

Not in a shop, no. I tend to buy online. But either way, no I don't really know what the retail markup is on wholesale prices, or how much of that goes towards covering overheads and how much is profit; hence my statement of assumption.

notsoblue

Il Principe wrote:

Typical Triathlete.

Hee Hee

DonDaddyD

Ok the condition of the road bike is probably a valid concern for them. Although I know its in good condition they don't.

You said it yourself, you know the condition of your bike. They don't. This is why they need you to bring the bike in, they need to gauge the conition with their own eyes.

They seem to have a permanent member of staff doing workshop servicing so I would expect this is already factored as a running cost of their business.

He problem needs to complete a number of services (bring in a certain amount of money from services) a day, month, year to justify his salary. Doing the work for free isn't going to help.

I did have my 3 kids (all < 6years old) with me on a previous visit so had already spoken to the same staff about other orders for a kids bike for the oldest at £250 for Christmas.

If bike shops had a penny everytime I walked in to discuss a new bike things including potential X-mas presents they wouldn't need me to buy the items I'm talking about....

The most important thing is whether their service during this conversation was helpful and friendly.

I should probably also clarify that only £500 of the order was on a bike with the remaining £400 on accessories that I would expect the margins to be bigger (surely the specialised Prevail helmet they want £160 has a pretty healthy margin on)

It's a business.

NewTo Tri, in light of the responses from others and your two follow up responses above, it sounds like you've made your mind up and believe that you weren't expecting too much.

Just an observation.

I think in the shops case they can boil it down to 'not being able to please everyone'.

I still think you were expecting too much.

NewToTri

Thanks Guys.

always wanting best service at the best price

think I'll see what the other shop say tomorrow see if they give the same or worse response that'll be the deciding factor.

NGale

question is would you agree to work for free if you boss or a customer asked you to? somehow I doubt it, so I don't see why your LBS should.

lost_in_thought

Yes, you are expecting too much.

NewToTri

NGale wrote:

question is would you agree to work for free if you boss or a customer asked you to? somehow I doubt it, so I don't see why your LBS should.

Our company do work for free on some proof of concept projects where the expectation is for future work so yes. I also do some free out of hours cover for clients when requested. In fact I've won additional business by doing exactly this for clients reluctant to try a new service.

Remember that I only asked for the service based on the order I was putting through that even with cycle scheme deduction the bike shop should still be making at least £70+ profit from this first order obviously not an amazing profit but if they can persuade me to use there servicing department in future then thats where they would lock in more profit.

Monkeypump

NewToTri wrote:

Thanks Guys.

always wanting best service at the best price

think I'll see what the other shop say tomorrow see if they give the same or worse response that'll be the deciding factor.

No, what you seem to want is something for nothing. Shopping around for best value is one thing, scrounging free labour from a shop you've shown no loyalty to is just plain cheeky! Why should they give you anything free?

Loyal customers will get freebies and good discounts, but the key word is LOYAL. They're probably better off without customers like you!

NewToTri

Monkeypump wrote:

No, what you seem to want is something for nothing. Shopping around for best value is one thing, scrounging free labour from a shop you've shown no loyalty to is just plain cheeky! Why should they give you anything free?

Loyal customers will get freebies and good discounts, but the key word is LOYAL. They're probably better off without customers like you!

Something for nothing would assume they are getting nothing. In fact I'd be very surprised if the margins on retail prices is only 10%. Surely if Loyal customers are important to a company then doing small things to build that loyalty from the start is key.

As were only talking about £20 to £30 for a couple of hours workshop time I'm also finding it slightly contradictory to other posts you've made recently in this thread http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12739269&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 suggesting someone should ask for a discount from their LBS on a first purchase from them.

Anyway a comparison against another LBS tomorrow will determine who gets the order. Either way I'll be going local to some extent which is surely the only thing that counts to support local business.

rolf_f

Plus 1 for what everyone else said. You are expecting too much. If I proved myself as a valuable, regular customer to a shop, I might hope for a mechanic to have a quick tinker with my bike if it was a minor tweak needing doing, and maybe not charge me - but to actually expect a freebie on first visit? Nope - quite unreasonable! Just coming off the street expecting freebies makes you sound like a chancer

contango

NewToTri wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

No, what you seem to want is something for nothing. Shopping around for best value is one thing, scrounging free labour from a shop you've shown no loyalty to is just plain cheeky! Why should they give you anything free?

Loyal customers will get freebies and good discounts, but the key word is LOYAL. They're probably better off without customers like you!

Something for nothing would assume they are getting nothing. In fact I'd be very surprised if the margins on retail prices is only 10%. Surely if Loyal customers are important to a company then doing small things to build that loyalty from the start is key.

As were only talking about £20 to £30 for a couple of hours workshop time I'm also finding it slightly contradictory to other posts you've made recently in this thread http://www.bikeradar.com/beginners/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12739269&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20 suggesting someone should ask for a discount from their LBS on a first purchase from them.

Anyway a comparison against another LBS tomorrow will determine who gets the order. Either way I'll be going local to some extent which is surely the only thing that counts to support local business.

From what I can see of the thread so far you've ordered one bike on a scheme that probably isn't the best for them.

I see your point about a couple of free hours for a potential client who is reluctant to try something new, but it's not as if bikes are a novelty any more. People up and down the country will be heading to LBS to look at bikes, buy bikes, buy accessories, buy new bikes, buy consumables and so on.

My LBS is willing to spend time with me discussing stuff, gives me good prices and often cuts me a bit of slack when it comes to associated charges (e.g. transferring the cassette etc from the wheel already on the bike I bought from them to the new wheel I bought from them). For my part I avoid visiting during busy times - I work for myself so can go in just about any time.

Despite being a fairly regular customer for some 18 months now I still wouldn't expect them to give me a free service. So I'd also say you're asking too much. I'd hope they would give you a free opinion on its condition but a service would still be chargeable.

reluctant

"wanting the best service at the best price"
The two are often, not always, mutually exclusive. Service costs, good staff who can do a good job cost more than the shaved chimps in Halfords.
I think there's an feeling that Cyclescheme customers are on the gravytrain and want everything for next to nothing - but the issue is that a Cyclescheme voucher isn't cold hard currency and doesn't talk like money does.
There's also a cart and horse situation too - build a good relationship with an LBS, become a valued customer, then the benefits will start to flow.

u05harrisb

i would go to rutland cycles bud! i live locally to them so its really convienient, i bought a cheap £300 bike off them and when ever i have a problem with it i bring it on in every time its been in for a little bit of indexing or gear adjustment they have done it for free, only time ive been charged is when ive had pad changes and spoke changes due to broken ones. they even upgraded my BB for free! i had an unsealed BB in the bike and i brought it back to be replaced under warenty and they upgraded it to a sealed for free stoked or what! they even help me out with little things too i.e. my forks siezed up and when i was talking to a guys about it he went over to my bike and oiled greased and everything my forks, brilliant!
always a great service and quality, i get everything from there because they have treated me well and their always there to help

kelsen

There's nothing wrong with asking, after all, if you don't ask you don't get. But what you shouldn't do is bang on about it as if it's your right rather than a privilege, otherwise people just think you're an arse.

Welcome by the way.

loismustdie

Absolutely, you are asking too much! Would I go to my local supermarket and say to the manager, 'If you give me ten percent of this week's shop for free, I'll be a loyal customer from now on'?

Also, how do they know you'll be a loyal customer in the future? What guarantee can you give? Will they really want a customer who tries to get a service (a potentially major job) done at parts cost only coming back anyway?

I sincerely hope any of the other shops you try this on with tell you politely, but firmly, where to go.

Zephr

+1 to what Kelsen said.
its not a right, and if you expect it, youre an ar$e.

s-worksenduro

Remember as well that the mechanic will have to set up your new bike for you free of charge, and you will probably also get a free service on that after a few weeks as well. This all comes out of the greatly reduced profits from the sale. (A lot of people forget that the price includes VAT as well, which the bike shop must pay.)

As a bike mechanic in an LBS myself, yes, I do carry out work for free for regular customers, normally offering to do it, rather than being asked. I will also (quite regularly at the moment) do things like fit lights for free. I also have to sit down with my manager once a month to provide him with a list of the work I have done, a breakdown of parts and labour, free services on new bikes and any goodwill stuff. This is where I have to justify my job, and if the sales staff are giving things like free services away, it puts me in a difficult position.

I think you are asking a lot of the shop to walk in as a fresh face with no money to spend (CS vouchers don't count) and start asking for free stuff. If anything, you are probably setting yourself up as being a customer to avoid in the future.

Go back in there, spend your voucher, chat with the guys, pick your bike up, then a week later, go in with some biscuits or a tin of Celebrations, "Thanks guys, bike is fantastic, love riding it" etc, and then take it from there. You will have a much more positive relationship if you let them do their job, and if they do it well, let them know, if not, go to Rutland or elsewhere.