What makes the ultimate sportive ?

broachboy

Nickwill wrote:

Just shows how opinions differ. I love hills, at least in retrospect, and a good 25% climb is something to get your teeth into!

I hate them when I'm on them suffering :evil: , but like you say after in retrospect I kind of want to go back and do it again ..... :twisted:

That can't be normal can it ? :roll: :twisted:

broachboy

wicked wrote:

No worries I am in Telford and ride south shropshire every week in spring/summer.

many thanks wicked, I am not far from County Lane (A41 cross roads) which I am lead to believe runs along the border of Staffs & Shroppie

I will keep you updated as things progress.

broachboy

Ron Stuart wrote:

I’m another Shropshire based rider and it’s a great county for cycling, so another sportive local would be great.
I know this may sound negative but it’s probably useful along with the other tips to list a few don’ts

1. Date. Don’t clash with another event not far away and advertise early.
2. Price. Good sponsorship should help keep the price down and don’t get sucked into too many goodies, it’s just a lot more organising. Just Racing do technical tee shirts that are brilliant but they don’t do electronic timing, which I think impresses more. Use the fact that the county is great for cycling rather than what’s in the goody bag.
3. Event centre and facilities. Very important and related to that is parking, a boggy field isn’t fun, neither is a 100 metre queue for the Lavatory pleasant either. Help yourself on the day by getting as much clear information out before the event as possible along with numbers etc. Timing chips or as I have used helmet chip (sticky taped wire) which can easily be sent out in the post and doesn’t have to be collected at the end (also no deposit needed)
4. Route. Two distances is enough with good quality and plentiful real food and energy replacement products available at the feeds. Two feeds needed in a 100 mile event and make the shorter distance around 100 km with the one feed common to both. Plus don’t have more than 40 miles between feeds in the longer ride or to the finish. Lastly don’t make the mistake that Kilotogo made in their first ‘Wild Edric’ by making it too hard with more than half the riders walking up some of the inclines, then the following year the event was largely boycotted. Challenging but not silly, the climbers don’t appreciate a narrow steep lane full of walkers who started early when they are trying to ride it. I can give some advice regards route from first hand personal experience. Lastly counter-clockwise routes are in general safer (less right turns) bear that in mind at busy junctions etc. Also think how some hazards may play out in bad weather.
5. Finish. Should be busy as possible with a proper greeting for the riders, a medal, certificate are all good but a real bonus is to get a quick result from your ride, with splits if possible. Food, drink changing facilities are all great additions to the ‘experience’ and lastly get feed back, have some of the helpers and yourself ask the riders what they thought and was there any problems.
6. Debrief. As soon as possible record how it all went and consult your team as to how they saw it, so next time it could be even better

Best of luck.

Many Thanks Ron, those points will come very handy at the next 'meeting'. To address your points quickly ....

1. we're talking royal Wedding here aren't we ? seriously I would like to be looking at May/June, but will check for local & national clashes.
2. We had planned to use an electronic timing package - with the 'throw away' rfid type chip.
3. There are still 2 possible start locations. 1 with great parking & no toilets, the other all singing and dancing, but not much parking - needs addressing.
4. good points. I will ride the route in stages myself and make notes for risks. I am by no way a fast rider, and in my mid 40s at 14 stone, I will know if the climbs are too much. If I find it too dificult I will request a change - I don't want loads of riders walking.
5. Good points again Ron. The timing solution I plan on using will give you your results as you finish including your splits - great minds eh ? haha
6.

broachboy

The Wild Wales Challenge has been stopped because of what was considered to be too many dangerous aspects of the rides and the risk of legal action being taken against the organizers.
It is one thing being a competent rider tackling fast narrow gritted and shale ridden descents on your own with only yourself to blame if there is a problem, but an event with large numbers of riders of mixed abilities in close proximity to one another on tricky descents with the added problem of large numbers of 4x4 clad tourists on the Burway or Asterton bank to negotiate is something that if I was an organizer I would try and avoid.
I think that the Mynd is part of Shropshire’s iconic outdoor experience and there is a great ascent over it that all should be able to negotiated without walking and descend in greater safety. It is the route from Bridges to Ratlinghope, up to Robin Hood’s Butts then down towards Woolaston. This has the added bonus of being mainly off the Tourist 4x4 trail.
There are also loads of great climbs in Shropshire that are both a challenge and rideable for all abilities and experience.
Wicked, I’m sure you’re a great rider with good bike handling abilities and like a full on hairy ride but just pause for a second and think of all the other riders and the organizers who may find themselves in court as a result of these days living in an increasingly suing society.
I have seen ambulances being called out on the Mynd for riders taking part in the Shropshire Highland Challenge, of course you can have an accident anywhere but it is the fact that as organizers you may in court have been found complicit in engineering the accident by putting in a dangerous aspect of the course route.

Many thanks for the heads up Ron. I know 'Ratchup' is including but which way and when I'm not sure. I will pass your suggestion to the route planner and we will run through it.

many thanks again.

etapechamp

hi, ok i might be a bit off topic here , but when a sportive has timing chips, and numbers isnt it a race ?
that you require 3rd party bc insurance for, ?i,ve ridden the wild wales challenge 5 times, as well as shropshire highland challenge a few times,

what i would say is by adding that element of timing chips, then you challenge riders to take risks,

personally i wouldnt consider them any more dangerous than a audax the only difference is with an audax you have a standard time not a race time like with a timing chip,

don,t get me wrong here, i think sportives are the best way forward in the cycling world, but the added race thingy, is in my mind a risky buisness, unless you have closed roads, like the etape caledonia or etape du tour.

the biggest problem with the uk is wheres theres blame theres a claim, - sure its easy to do, but at the end of the day if and when you get paid out, your insurance premiums are also going to go up as well., so you'll end up back where u started. - rant over. .

broachboy

etapechamp wrote:

hi, ok i might be a bit off topic here , but when a sportive has timing chips, and numbers isnt it a race ?
that you require 3rd party bc insurance for, ?i,ve ridden the wild wales challenge 5 times, as well as shropshire highland challenge a few times,

what i would say is by adding that element of timing chips, then you challenge riders to take risks,

personally i wouldnt consider them any more dangerous than a audax the only difference is with an audax you have a standard time not a race time like with a timing chip,

don,t get me wrong here, i think sportives are the best way forward in the cycling world, but the added race thingy, is in my mind a risky buisness, unless you have closed roads, like the etape caledonia or etape du tour.

the biggest problem with the uk is wheres theres blame theres a claim, - sure its easy to do, but at the end of the day if and when you get paid out, your insurance premiums are also going to go up as well., so you'll end up back where u started. - rant over. .

Hi many thanks for your input

I believe, though I will have to double check that we have the full BC insurance in place for this type of event.

I have ridden the Autumn Epic & the Dragon ride before both with timing chips on open roads.

The way I see it you can treat your sportive anyway you want - like a race or like an audax. The timing solution is there for added ... ? err fun - try and beat your mates time, or your own time from last year, whatever ? Theres no pressure just relax and enjoy it.

Giving someone a number and timing chip lets them be someone they can't normally be for one day, so turn up in your trade kit, on your replica bike and be your hero for that day, its all part of an experience ....

Ron Stuart

As far as the law is concerned a sportive is not a race it only becomes a race when there are places and prizes for best times. As an organizer it is wise to state this in the information given out to riders and emphasize that the rider has to obey the highway code at all times.
The fact that certain riders treat the event as if it were a race is beside the point, this I have experienced with some individuals on Audax's as well, racing between check points then feeling cool watching others arrive at the controls.
The timing is both of interest to the riders and a useful advertising ploy, appealing to the obvious human element in many of the riders to want to get a good time for the distance and severity of the parcours.
As for closed roads this something a lot of the top pros would like to get in the UK a rare thing only likely to happen in more remote areas and not in (Jeremy Clarksonville). The pros have to put up with rolling closers such as the Tour of Britain and it can go wrong at times as well, as witnessed.
The only likely thing that will change the climate to say more like France/Italy is a load of vested interest making large amounts of money out of these events then it will become important enough say major sponsors like Banks!!!

etapechamp

i think the general consensus is to make a bagfull of money at the end of the day, i had a quick tour around the web and have seen 4-5 sportives charging £40 upwards for a 120 km event
here is a link for this years london to bournmouth sportive http://www.london2bournemouth.co.uk/FAQ.html, also according to this sportive its fine to treat it as a race, but as you have rightly said it is not a race, its a shame that not all organisers are following the same direction.

and according to the organisers its absolutly fine if you want to treat the event as a race.

"Thinking of entering the London to Bournemouth Cycle?

Here are some of the most frequently asked questions:

1.When and where does the Cycle start?

The Cycle starts at 8.00am on Sunday 12th September 2010 at Wimbledon Park Athletics Stadium, London SW19 7HX. Please arrive 45-60mins earlier to declare and get your free food. So make sure you go to bed early the night before!

2. What is the distance?

The distance is 118 miles (190 kilometres). If you want to approach it as a race/time-trial that’s absolutely fine; however just covering the distance is a challenge in itself.

3. How much is the Entry Fee?

The entry fee is £45.00. Included in the entry price amongst other things are food at the start, food and drink at 4 feed stations and at the finish in Bournemouth, and a finishers’ medal. There will be first-aid, mechanic and a 'rescue' service should you or your bike not be able to make it under your own steam.

4. How do I know if my entry is confirmed?

As soon as you have made online payment for entry, you will receive a confirmation of your entry to the email address you have supplied. You will also be able check your entry on the ‘entrants list’ pdf on the website, which will updated once a week. The entry is limited to 300 participants. Online entries will close when this figure is reached. Please note that we do not send out a pre-race pack. Anything you require to take part in the cycle will be available to print off online, or will be given to you at the start.

5. I have some clothes which I’d like to change into when I arrive in Bournemouth. How do I get them there?

We will have a ‘dry kit’ service. A van will transport any belongings that you need to be taken to the finish. Please put them in a suitable bag or holdall, preferably labelled.

6. Is there a minimum age for people to be able to enter?

All riders must be aged 18yrs or over on the day of the Cycle.

7. How fit do you have to be to complete the Cycle. How much training do I have to do?

All riders must be reasonably fit. If you are not a regular cyclist, we recommend you go for a bike ride two or three times a week for several weeks in advance of the Ride, gradually increasing the distance you cycle. (Please see ‘Training’ link).
Cycling this distance is pretty tough and riders must be in good health. If you are in any doubt, please obtain your doctor's approval before participating. Please note that you must complete and carry the medical form with you during the ride.

8. Is there a time limit to complete the Cycle?

There are no cut-off times for the feed stations or the finish. If you are unsure about how long you will take, rest assured that you will have food, drink and the same support that everyone else gets. However, we do expect you to finish on the same day!

9. Do I need to wear a cycle helmet?

We would recommend that you do, however it is not compulsory."

Chiggy

There are enough sportives in the UK where the organiser deliberately includes all the steep hills he can think of.

What there doesn't seen to be is a sportive that claims to be a 'Flat stage'. A sportive where all the route is below 6% gradient and the riders can get a real move on, knowing there are no tough hills to climb.

Audax UK's advice on gearing is "Err on lower rather than higher". Some sportives have more climbing and steeper climbs than Audaxes, so what are we supposed to pack, gearing wise?
Why do most sportives have >14% climbs in them? Most of the riders are inexperienced and are riding Compact and 25 tooth sprocket race bikes.
They are wary about using the 53 - 11 ratio because there is a bloody big hill to climb later.

What a lot of sportive organisers don't seem to get to grips with is there are a lot of riders who simply love SPEED, and not climbing.

jgsi

Chiggy wrote:

There are enough sportives in the UK where the organiser deliberately includes all the steep hills he can think of.

What there doesn't seen to be is a sportive that claims to be a 'Flat stage'. A sportive where all the route is below 6% gradient and the riders can get a real move on, knowing there are no tough hills to climb.

Audax UK's advice on gearing is "Err on lower rather than higher". Some sportives have more climbing and steeper climbs than Audaxes, so what are we supposed to pack, gearing wise?
Why do most sportives have >14% climbs in them? Most of the riders are inexperienced and are riding Compact and 25 tooth sprocket race bikes.
They are wary about using the 53 - 11 ratio because there is a bloody big hill to climb later.

What a lot of sportive organisers don't seem to get to grips with is there are a lot of riders who simply love SPEED, and not climbing.

You are probably better off joining in on some TLI/ LVRC racing if you dont already do so and have done with the so called sportives in the UK. AT least in racing you know that you will never ever dare come off the big ring.

richa

A sachet of degreaser...

broachboy

Chiggy wrote:

Most of the riders are inexperienced and are riding Compact and 25 tooth sprocket race bikes.
They are wary about using the 53 - 11 ratio because there is a bloody big hill to climb later.

I have experienced this myself to a degree. I now ride a 50/34 - 13/26, tbh I feel that I changed from a 53/39 just because the majority of rides I entered were becoming more and more intense on the climbing side, or were they becoming more steep because of the introduction of the compact gearing system and thus making the terrain accessible to more riders ? :roll:

Just like to say a massive thanks for everyones input You're comments will be made use of.

I have to actually do some work this week :shock: , so if I don't reply for a day or two its just because I'm busy somewhere else

wicked

Broachy interesting article here for you

http://www.cyclosport.org/article.aspx?id=1690

A lot of which I think has been mentioned on this thread but worth a look all the same.

broachboy

wicked wrote:

Broachy interesting article here for you

http://www.cyclosport.org/article.aspx?id=1690

A lot of which I think has been mentioned on this thread but worth a look all the same.

Excellent work wicked - many many thanks for that link

dbg

Usually the one's that sell out offer good vfm, look at the Mad March Hare as an excellent example - costs £10 sold out for next year in about 5 days, free tea, coffee and hot food at the finish. People (me included) really aren't bothered about timing chips, Mad March had a guy noting numbers departing and arriving so you still got your time, and this 'old school' approach is very refreshing.

broachboy

Well its been a long, long time since I last posted :oops: but things have moved on since then, we have managed to form a limited company and secure Bridgnorth High Street closed to traffic for the day while we run our 1st sportive.

I tried to listen to you all in the many previous posts when I asked for advice, and hopefully we have covered most of what you all asked for in our 1st event, but remember you can't please everyone all of the time :roll:

The event is called the Shropshire Hills 100, it is on the 3rd of July this year. I know it is short notice and we may struggle at this late time in the year, but we wanted to proceed, suck it and see and improve for 2012 with a bigger & better event.

More details can be found at our website ....

http://www.mamilcycling.co.uk/shropshire-hills-100.html

From one cyclist to many others - please support if you can, even if it only vocally

broachboy

wicked wrote:

broachboy wrote:

wicked wrote:

Will follow this with interest. We could do with a decent sportive in this neck of the woods, the Edric is a poor effort.
Why this no decent event here I do not know, the riding is good and we are quite central in the country. If you need a hand give me a shout!

Morning WICKED, please do follow us, as soon as all the red tape is sorted I will be able to say more. Many thanks of your offer to help - where are you based ?

No worries I am in Telford and ride south shropshire every week in spring/summer.

Hi wicked, its been a long time :oops:

If you're still up for helping please keep in touch

Best Regards

Andy Britton

wicked

broachboy wrote:

wicked wrote:

broachboy wrote:

wicked wrote:

Will follow this with interest. We could do with a decent sportive in this neck of the woods, the Edric is a poor effort.
Why this no decent event here I do not know, the riding is good and we are quite central in the country. If you need a hand give me a shout!

Morning WICKED, please do follow us, as soon as all the red tape is sorted I will be able to say more. Many thanks of your offer to help - where are you based ?

No worries I am in Telford and ride south shropshire every week in spring/summer.

Hi wicked, its been a long time :oops:

If you're still up for helping please keep in touch

Best Regards

Andy Britton

You have a PM!

Slacey

Another Telford local here - looks good, I'm in!

broachboy

Slacey wrote:

Another Telford local here - looks good, I'm in!

Cheers Slacey many thanks for your support

We need as much support as possible in our 1st year, so we can come back bigger and better next year 8)

FransJacques

Fluffers. I've *never* been to a sportive with personal fluffers before or after.

If you can supply some (pref not too butt-ugly) you'll get a lot more people signing up.