What makes the ultimate sportive ?

broachboy

Afternoon forum goers,

I am in the process of arranging a new Shropshire based sportive, and hopefully another based in Staffordshire / Derbyshire - yes, yet more :twisted:

I want it to be a top ride, but need to know from cyclists what makes & breaks a sportive for them :?

If you could take the time to just list certain aspects that you would expect to see, or would like to see at a sportive please reply to this thread, same goes with aspects that you don't like, or don't want to see at a sportive I would be very grateful, and you can be assured that your comments will go to making this a successful event.

Any valid comments made will go on to be presented to investors at the next meeting due end Nov.

Many Thanks for your time.

broachboy

hmmmm strange, usually so many people up for a sportive, but then not one person with an opinion :? :?:

A forum member even replied last night then deleted his post crikey I don't bite, and to be honest I am only doing this to make it a better event

The course is set, it will be a 100 miles, with a 60 miles shorter option, and maybe even a 30 mile route too, depending how relevent it is to the event. You can be assured that the roads, climbs and views will be awesome.

What I am after is the extras at the start / finish or on the route - what would you expect or like to have included :?:

Many TIA again for any replies

motdoc

Personally I like a good TShirt.
First dartmoor classic had an awesome one, sweet retro awesomeness. I'd do any sportive with a TShirt that good.
Lots of learners...there are loads of "this is the hardest" sportives...a "friendly" sportive would go down well I think.
Hot food at the end, and beer.
But mostly TShirts.

broachboy

Many thanks motdoc for your reply. Your points have been noted.

1. Good quality classy t-shirt - in a retro style, that reflects the start/finish or something from the ride maybe :?:
2. 'Friendly'
3. Hot / cold food & drinks & beer

Luckily the start / finish has no shortage of pubs, but I will try to get local businesses to promote themselves at the event.

Thanks once again

Bronzie

The route has got to be the most important thing surely? Quiet roads with nice scenery make the event so much more enjoyable than have to dodge cars all the time (one of my favourites was the Autumn Epic around Radnorshire).

Also, from my point of view, smaller is better to a large extent. Huge events with too many riders are never fun for me.

Value for money is another important consideration. There's a lot of competition in the market now.

Good route marking with GPX files available for download would be another plus point.

For me, T-shirts, medals and certificates are just another bit of crap to clutter up a drawer so I'm not fussed about them being available. I'd make all that stuff an optional extra.

broachboy

Yeah the route is a major factor. I have ridden the Autumn Epic myself, so know exactly what you are reffering to. There will always will be a time when crossing or riding on A roads will be a factor, but then again I think this applies to the majority of events anywhere. It will be a factor to keep this to a minimum.

Regarding the number of riders - what is too many ? I would like some sort of idea, as this is a bit of a grey area for me. Getting the balance right is essential, as this impacts on the timing solution required, and entry cost too.

Right with you on the downloadable route, it is an area already being addressed. The route will also be way marked at junctions for non GPS users.

Comments regarding T-shirts, medals and certificates noted.

Many Thanks for your input

Bronzie

broachboy wrote:

Regarding the number of riders - what is too many?

Depends to a large extent on how you are going to organise the start. If you set everyone off together, then 500 is plenty in my opinion. With a staggered start over an hour or two, then you could cater for a lot more riders without it feeling like a bunfight the whole time.

broachboy

Bronzie wrote:

broachboy wrote:

Regarding the number of riders - what is too many?

Depends to a large extent on how you are going to organise the start. If you set everyone off together, then 500 is plenty in my opinion. With a staggered start over an hour or two, then you could cater for a lot more riders without it feeling like a bunfight the whole time.

I see what you mean. I would imagine that the event will have an 'official' start time, but I wouldn't want this to signal the start of a road race if you see what I mean. All entrants will have a timing chip and will have their finishing time recorded. I would like to see this reflected in a 1 hour starting window, for riders comfort if nothing else.

Many Thanks once again

wicked

As a fellow shropshire lad the most important factor i.e the route should be quite easy as there as you know lots of great cycling routes in our county.

Good route signage is also important.

But top of the list for me is the feeds. Unfortunately many organisers take the piss here and what you get for your money is pathetic. A certain sportive I did last year had a good tough route but that's all forgotten at the feed station, leaves a nasty taste in the mouth in more ways than one!

Tee shirts and medals are all fluff IMO. The only trophy I want is the pave stone for doing PR!

Do not fall into the traps that they did with the Wild Edric by making it a climbing ordeal and no Asterton Bank!

nickwill

Good hills, a good route showing off an area to its best advantage, good signposting with sensibly spaced feedstations, and a good HQ with parking.
With regard to the route, I think the best ones have a logic to them. Some events are contrived and take all sorts of detours just to include another hill. One of the reasons that the Fred Whitton has become such a classic is that the route has a natural and challenging shape.
Personally I like the bigger events because these tend to be the only ones where groups form and it is possible to move in and out of different ones depending on pace.
Freebies at the end are fairly irrelevant to me.

broachboy

wicked wrote:

As a fellow shropshire lad the most important factor i.e the route should be quite easy as there as you know lots of great cycling routes in our county.

Good route signage is also important.

But top of the list for me is the feeds. Unfortunately many organisers take the wee-wee here and what you get for your money is pathetic. A certain sportive I did last year had a good tough route but that's all forgotten at the feed station, leaves a nasty taste in the mouth in more ways than one!

Tee shirts and medals are all fluff IMO. The only trophy I want is the pave stone for doing PR!

Do not fall into the traps that they did with the Wild Edric by making it a climbing ordeal and no Asterton Bank!

Cheers for your reply wicked. Don't quote me on this ... but Asterton Bank is not included, there will be a climb on to the Mynd but at a different location - I will check the route when I get home Thursday or Friday. There will be climbs - but not constantly, as I myself would not enjoy that.

I am very interested to know what riders would like at feed stations and what they would not like to see at feed stations.

Other comments duely noted

broachboy

Nickwill wrote:

Good hills, a good route showing off an area to its best advantage, good signposting with sensibly spaced feedstations, and a good HQ with parking.

I have not developed the route, that was down to friend. But I know the majority of it, and will have ridden it many times soon to check for contributing factors. I can safely say that it ticks those boxes, if not we will work on it.

Nickwill wrote:

With regard to the route, I think the best ones have a logic to them. Some events are contrived and take all sorts of detours just to include another hill.

I know just where you’re coming from – I tend to get that feeling with the Shrops Highland Challenge :?

Nickwill wrote:

Personally I like the bigger events because these tend to be the only ones where groups form and it is possible to move in and out of different ones depending on pace.
Freebies at the end are fairly irrelevant to me.

I like your thinking regarding the group riding, and your other comments were noted.

Many thanks

Anonymous

The only sportive I've done was one where any 'profit' went to charity.

I would only pay for a profit making one if it was on closed roads.

broachboy

NapoleonD wrote:

The only sportive I've done was one where any 'profit' went to charity.

I would only pay for a profit making one if it was on closed roads.

Thanks for your comment. I would be happy to break even tbh :roll:

It is a learning curve. I have taken into consideration what you said and will give it some thought

JD_76

Price point is something you need to consider carefuly.

If its cheap people have lower expectations.
If its expensive people will have higher expectations.

Its fine to make a profit just dont be greedy, as for freebies something useful on the day like gels, food and drink is always a bonus as it means you can carry less from the start.

In the past I have heard people say £25-£30 is expensive and £10-£15 is reasonanble.

So £20 is the middle ground and could go either way.

Hope that helps.

broachboy

JD_76 wrote:

Price point is something you need to consider carefuly.

If its cheap people have lower expectations.
If its expensive people will have higher expectations.

Its fine to make a profit just dont be greedy, as for freebies something useful on the day like gels, food and drink is always a bonus as it means you can carry less from the start.

In the past I have heard people say £25-£30 is expensive and £10-£15 is reasonanble.

So £20 is the middle ground and could go either way.

Hope that helps.

Many thanks JD

It was good to see that you had similar thoughts to mine on what could easily be one of the most stickiest areas to finalise.

I like the thinking of energy food freebies

Brakeless

HQ - Plenty of secure Parking and quick sign on. Decent coffee and food available

Route - Good obvious signs. Signs after turns as well as before them so you know have made the right turn. (southern sportives have orange ribbon tied to a bush after turns which works really well)If a route stays on the same road for many miles then a couple of intermediate signs stop you thinking you may have missed a turn.

Foodstops- Energy drinks,water, flapjack and bananas are all good. If you can afford gels and energy bars (or get someone to give them as sponsership)then hand them out so they don't get grabbed in handfuls by the first people through leaving none for later riders.
I think its a good idea to have a track pump and some spare inner tubes or at least patches at feed stations.

Don't feel you have to offer everything but do provide everything you offer!!

broachboy

Brakeless wrote:

HQ - Plenty of secure Parking and quick sign on. Decent coffee and food available

Many Thanks for your input brakeless.

Comments there noted….

Brakeless wrote:

Route - Good obvious signs. Signs after turns as well as before them so you know have made the right turn. (southern sportives have orange ribbon tied to a bush after turns which works really well)If a route stays on the same road for many miles then a couple of intermediate signs stop you thinking you may have missed a turn.

Good points ….

Brakeless wrote:

Foodstops- Energy drinks,water, flapjack and bananas are all good. If you can afford gels and energy bars (or get someone to give them as sponsership)then hand them out so they don't get grabbed in handfuls by the first people through leaving none for later riders.

Brakeless wrote:

I think its a good idea to have a track pump and some spare inner tubes or at least patches at feed stations.

My thoughts exactly – try to get a sponsorship deal for the energy food/drinks, as for the pump, tubes etc I want a local shop to come onside for that

Brakeless wrote:

Don't feel you have to offer everything but do provide everything you offer!!

Like it

wicked

Will follow this with interest. We could do with a decent sportive in this neck of the woods, the Edric is a poor effort.
Why this no decent event here I do not know, the riding is good and we are quite central in the country. If you need a hand give me a shout!

broachboy

wicked wrote:

Will follow this with interest. We could do with a decent sportive in this neck of the woods, the Edric is a poor effort.
Why this no decent event here I do not know, the riding is good and we are quite central in the country. If you need a hand give me a shout!

Morning WICKED, please do follow us, as soon as all the red tape is sorted I will be able to say more. Many thanks of your offer to help - where are you based ?

Tom Butcher

Personal opinion is that these days up to £25 is fine. £15 you could probably get away with advertising it as value for money and provide fewer bells and whistles.

Feed stations - I'm happy with flapjack, bananas and water. Cake, sausage rolls, sandwiches etc all welcomed. I'm not fussed at all about gels and energy bars as if i want those I can take my own. Energy drink would be useful but again if I know it's not on tap I'll just take some powder in a bag - not an issue for me.

Route - for me this is a biggy. I hate routes that are so convoluted that you are constantly looking for the next turn. However well signed a route is people do miss them and signs do go missing. Obviously it has to be good cycling country, scenic. Roads can be small so long as it is remembered that most people will be riding fast in groups - too many small dangerous descents not welcomed.

Again personal preference but too many severe gradients just depresses me - not another 1 in 4!*!* - I don't mind climbing but sometimes it's nice to roll along the tops of the hills - more climbs isn't always better.

Garz

For me it's nice to have a few stinging climbs but the best incentive is great scenery, quiet roads on the course. This backed up by quality route markers and facilities will cap off the fundamental basics they should focus on.

I don't want a ride where there's mammoth hills thrown in for the sake of it if, it involves terrible road surfaces and busy motor vehicles around.

Velonutter

broachboy wrote:

......there will be a climb on to the Mynd but at a different location - I will check the route when I get home Thursday or Friday. There will be climbs - but not constantly, as I myself would not enjoy that.

I am very interested to know what riders would like at feed stations and what they would not like to see at feed stations.

Other comments duely noted

You have just stated why I won't be doing it, Indeed have a couple of moderate climbs, but the Mynd is taking the pish and it is dangerous as well.

People want a rolling flowing ride, with little disruptions but something that challenges and allows people to maintain a good pace, there are enough mountainous sportives without adding to them.

Good food stations are essential as are gpx down-loadable routes that are accurate and not changed at the last minute.

Good Signposting is also important

A T-shirt can be an option at the end rather than included.

As I say the most important thing is to keep the event moving, chuck some major long slow hills in and everyone backs off and congestion arises because people can't get past

nickwill

Velonutter wrote:

broachboy wrote:

......there will be a climb on to the Mynd but at a different location - I will check the route when I get home Thursday or Friday. There will be climbs - but not constantly, as I myself would not enjoy that.

I am very interested to know what riders would like at feed stations and what they would not like to see at feed stations.

Other comments duely noted

You have just stated why I won't be doing it, Indeed have a couple of moderate climbs, but the Mynd is taking the pish and it is dangerous as well.

People want a rolling flowing ride, with little disruptions but something that challenges and allows people to maintain a good pace, there are enough mountainous sportives without adding to them.

Good food stations are essential as are gpx down-loadable routes that are accurate and not changed at the last minute.

Good Signposting is also important

A T-shirt can be an option at the end rather than included.

As I say the most important thing is to keep the event moving, chuck some major long slow hills in and everyone backs off and congestion arises because people can't get past

Just shows how opinions differ. I love hills, at least in retrospect, and a good 25% climb is something to get your teeth into!

wicked

broachboy wrote:

wicked wrote:

Will follow this with interest. We could do with a decent sportive in this neck of the woods, the Edric is a poor effort.
Why this no decent event here I do not know, the riding is good and we are quite central in the country. If you need a hand give me a shout!

Morning WICKED, please do follow us, as soon as all the red tape is sorted I will be able to say more. Many thanks of your offer to help - where are you based ?

No worries I am in Telford and ride south shropshire every week in spring/summer.

Ron Stuart

I’m another Shropshire based rider and it’s a great county for cycling, so another sportive local would be great.
I know this may sound negative but it’s probably useful along with the other tips to list a few don’ts

1. Date. Don’t clash with another event not far away and advertise early.
2. Price. Good sponsorship should help keep the price down and don’t get sucked into too many goodies, it’s just a lot more organising. Just Racing do technical tee shirts that are brilliant but they don’t do electronic timing, which I think impresses more. Use the fact that the county is great for cycling rather than what’s in the goody bag.
3. Event centre and facilities. Very important and related to that is parking, a boggy field isn’t fun, neither is a 100 metre queue for the Lavatory pleasant either. Help yourself on the day by getting as much clear information out before the event as possible along with numbers etc. Timing chips or as I have used helmet chip (sticky taped wire) which can easily be sent out in the post and doesn’t have to be collected at the end (also no deposit needed)
4. Route. Two distances is enough with good quality and plentiful real food and energy replacement products available at the feeds. Two feeds needed in a 100 mile event and make the shorter distance around 100 km with the one feed common to both. Plus don’t have more than 40 miles between feeds in the longer ride or to the finish. Lastly don’t make the mistake that Kilotogo made in their first ‘Wild Edric’ by making it too hard with more than half the riders walking up some of the inclines, then the following year the event was largely boycotted. Challenging but not silly, the climbers don’t appreciate a narrow steep lane full of walkers who started early when they are trying to ride it. I can give some advice regards route from first hand personal experience. Lastly counter-clockwise routes are in general safer (less right turns) bear that in mind at busy junctions etc. Also think how some hazards may play out in bad weather.
5. Finish. Should be busy as possible with a proper greeting for the riders, a medal, certificate are all good but a real bonus is to get a quick result from your ride, with splits if possible. Food, drink changing facilities are all great additions to the ‘experience’ and lastly get feed back, have some of the helpers and yourself ask the riders what they thought and was there any problems.
6. Debrief. As soon as possible record how it all went and consult your team as to how they saw it, so next time it could be even better

Best of luck.

wicked

Velonutter wrote:

broachboy wrote:

......there will be a climb on to the Mynd but at a different location - I will check the route when I get home Thursday or Friday. There will be climbs - but not constantly, as I myself would not enjoy that.

I am very interested to know what riders would like at feed stations and what they would not like to see at feed stations.

Other comments duely noted

You have just stated why I won't be doing it, Indeed have a couple of moderate climbs, but the Mynd is taking the pish and it is dangerous as well.

People want a rolling flowing ride, with little disruptions but something that challenges and allows people to maintain a good pace, there are enough mountainous sportives without adding to them.

Good food stations are essential as are gpx down-loadable routes that are accurate and not changed at the last minute.

Good Signposting is also important

A T-shirt can be an option at the end rather than included.

As I say the most important thing is to keep the event moving, chuck some major long slow hills in and everyone backs off and congestion arises because people can't get past

Huh? How is the Mynd dangerous? I ride it pretty much every week, the Asterton side is a bit steep and a loose surface in places but the other routes are absolutely fine.
Heard comments after the Edric about it being dangerous seems to me some people are a little delicate!

Ron Stuart

wicked wrote:

Velonutter wrote:

broachboy wrote:

......there will be a climb on to the Mynd but at a different location - I will check the route when I get home Thursday or Friday. There will be climbs - but not constantly, as I myself would not enjoy that.

I am very interested to know what riders would like at feed stations and what they would not like to see at feed stations.

Other comments duely noted

You have just stated why I won't be doing it, Indeed have a couple of moderate climbs, but the Mynd is taking the pish and it is dangerous as well.

People want a rolling flowing ride, with little disruptions but something that challenges and allows people to maintain a good pace, there are enough mountainous sportives without adding to them.

Good food stations are essential as are gpx down-loadable routes that are accurate and not changed at the last minute.

Good Signposting is also important

A T-shirt can be an option at the end rather than included.

As I say the most important thing is to keep the event moving, chuck some major long slow hills in and everyone backs off and congestion arises because people can't get past

Huh? How is the Mynd dangerous? I ride it pretty much every week, the Asterton side is a bit steep and a loose surface in places but the other routes are absolutely fine.
Heard comments after the Edric about it being dangerous seems to me some people are a little delicate!

The Wild Wales Challenge has been stopped because of what was considered to be too many dangerous aspects of the rides and the risk of legal action being taken against the organizers.
It is one thing being a competent rider tackling fast narrow gritted and shale ridden descents on your own with only yourself to blame if there is a problem, but an event with large numbers of riders of mixed abilities in close proximity to one another on tricky descents with the added problem of large numbers of 4x4 clad tourists on the Burway or Asterton bank to negotiate is something that if I was an organizer I would try and avoid.
I think that the Mynd is part of Shropshire’s iconic outdoor experience and there is a great ascent over it that all should be able to negotiated without walking and descend in greater safety. It is the route from Bridges to Ratlinghope, up to Robin Hood’s Butts then down towards Woolaston. This has the added bonus of being mainly off the Tourist 4x4 trail.
There are also loads of great climbs in Shropshire that are both a challenge and rideable for all abilities and experience.
Wicked, I’m sure you’re a great rider with good bike handling abilities and like a full on hairy ride but just pause for a second and think of all the other riders and the organizers who may find themselves in court as a result of these days living in an increasingly suing society.
I have seen ambulances being called out on the Mynd for riders taking part in the Shropshire Highland Challenge, of course you can have an accident anywhere but it is the fact that as organizers you may in court have been found complicit in engineering the accident by putting in a dangerous aspect of the course route.

broachboy

Tom Butcher wrote:

Personal opinion is that these days up to £25 is fine. £15 you could probably get away with advertising it as value for money and provide fewer bells and whistles.

Many thanks for your input Tom. I am beginning to see whereabouts people want to go with the price – I have just got to make sure of value for money now, as we all know cyclists are a funny old bunch – myself included :roll:

Feed stations - I'm happy with flapjack, bananas and water. Cake, sausage rolls, sandwiches etc all welcomed. I'm not fussed at all about gels and energy bars as if i want those I can take my own. Energy drink would be useful but again if I know it's not on tap I'll just take some powder in a bag - not an issue for me.

Noted …….

Route - for me this is a biggy. I hate routes that are so convoluted that you are constantly looking for the next turn. However well signed a route is people do miss them and signs do go missing. Obviously it has to be good cycling country, scenic. Roads can be small so long as it is remembered that most people will be riding fast in groups - too many small dangerous descents not welcomed.

Agreed, I myself hate too many small dangerous descents :evil:

Again personal preference but too many severe gradients just depresses me - not another 1 in 4!*!* - I don't mind climbing but sometimes it's nice to roll along the tops of the hills - more climbs isn't always better.

Noted …

broachboy

Garz wrote:

For me it's nice to have a few stinging climbs but the best incentive is great scenery, quiet roads on the course. This backed up by quality route markers and facilities will cap off the fundamental basics they should focus on.

I don't want a ride where there's mammoth hills thrown in for the sake of it if, it involves terrible road surfaces and busy motor vehicles around.

Cheers Garz for the reply. I think you have got some basic 'big' seeling points in your reply

The route will be risk assesed many times before it even goes public. The forum goers points will all be taken into consideration

broachboy

Velonutter wrote:

You have just stated why I won't be doing it, Indeed have a couple of moderate climbs, but the Mynd is taking the pish and it is dangerous as well.

People want a rolling flowing ride, with little disruptions but something that challenges and allows people to maintain a good pace, there are enough mountainous sportives without adding to them.

I understand your point, but the Mynd is accessible by more than 1 road. The climb will be at approx 30 - 40 miles in, and I would have hoped for some fragmenting and settling of the groups by then - I know that is not a solution, but it may make it easier for the 1st & 2nd cat riders off the front when it comes to any major climbing. The route is very scenic and rolling before then taking advantage of the surrounding areas. We all know that some riders will treat this like a road race, and others will want to enjoy the day and beautiful Shropshire.

Good food stations are essential as are gpx down-loadable routes that are accurate and not changed at the last minute.

Good Signposting is also important

A T-shirt can be an option at the end rather than included.

Thanks for those points, especially the upto the minute GPS data - I will pass that point onto my partner (business, not life )

As I say the most important thing is to keep the event moving, chuck some major long slow hills in and everyone backs off and congestion arises because people can't get past

many thanks Velonutter - sorry I put you off so early