To the cyclist of Superhighway 7 tonight
Comments
-
snooks wrote:mybreakfastconsisted wrote:Speaking of whom, the lifesaver guarantees bugger all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ADxWFV1 ... r_embedded
Even in that video the rider says it was the life saver that saved them pulling across into the path of that pickup
The life saver is looking over your shoulder to make sure the path is clear, it's looking behind you before you manoeuvre, in a car it's checking your blind spot.
It didn't get the name "life saver" for nothing, looking behind you will save you life
Its amazing the number of cyclists who just move without looking over their shoulder to check whether theres another cyclist, a scooter, car or lorry there. Its as infuriating as people who just pull into the fast lane on the motorway without looking and expecting the whole world to stop.0 -
JZed wrote:Its as infuriating as people who just pull into the fast lane on the motorway without looking and expecting the whole world to stop.
That what a flash of the headlights and leaning on the horn is for.....isn't it? :shock:
0 -
What is this other forum? Link?0
-
-
Looking at the other forum; I think they all ride hybrids - an awful lot of hybrid avatars....
'nuff said....0 -
I'm on there and I've not ridden a hybrid since 1995.Riding on 5310
-
christ on a bike, some awesome stuff on there:marinyork wrote:Unfortunately getting out of the car has to be viewed as a hostile act in many circumstances. I know not all drivers intend it as that. It's meant to demonstrate dominance and the ability to easily pounce on your victim.
there was a sodding car between him and the cyclist. pouncing is going to be fairly difficult unless you're mr tickle...0 -
snooks wrote:JZed wrote:Its as infuriating as people who just pull into the fast lane on the motorway without looking and expecting the whole world to stop.
That what a flash of the headlights and leaning on the horn is for.....isn't it? :shock:
Nah I don't because I'm always afraid they'll tap on the window when I stop.... and it might be construed as an act of aggression 0 -
JZed wrote:
Nah I don't because I'm always afraid they'll tap on the window when I stop.... and it might be construed as an act of aggression
They'd have to catch me first! :twisted: ....and there is no chance of that on the M25...oh hang on :shock:0 -
northstar wrote:zanes wrote:I'm sure this has been said already, but, hypothetically, if it was taken further would gaz's hand on the drivers chest constitute assault?
I don't see him putting his hands on his chest in the video and if he did I can't see how it would be assault, the driver was being aggressive to the female cyclist and I would have done the same and put myself in the way like gaz545 did - there is a very good chance he wouldn't have got out of his car if that cyclist was male.
Check the caption at around 1:03.
Putting himself in between is acceptable IMHO, putting your hand on someone ups the ante me thinks.
Storm in a teacup this whole thing.0 -
Hey brekkie
Had a chance to think up any evidence backed responses to my points yet?
Cheers
PBo0 -
zanes wrote:northstar wrote:zanes wrote:I'm sure this has been said already, but, hypothetically, if it was taken further would gaz's hand on the drivers chest constitute assault?
I don't see him putting his hands on his chest in the video and if he did I can't see how it would be assault, the driver was being aggressive to the female cyclist and I would have done the same and put myself in the way like gaz545 did - there is a very good chance he wouldn't have got out of his car if that cyclist was male.
Check the caption at around 1:03.
Putting himself in between is acceptable IMHO, putting your hand on someone ups the ante me thinks.
Storm in a teacup this whole thing.
Ah yeah, thanks for pointing to that, I wouldn't put my hand on anyone either but I can see why he did, in the heat of the moment it's easy to do something like that without reliasing.Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.0 -
i can also see why the driver swore, in the heat of the moment.0
-
Christ alive...!
0 -
Not read this whole thread, but two things made me chuckle:
1. the thought that someone actually video's his commute (with 2 cameras no less!)
2. the so called cycling "superhighway" (looks like a nightmare for both cyclists and motorists!)Scott Scale 20 (for xc racing)
Gary Fisher HKEK (for commuting)0 -
-
What is your problem?0
-
Everyone can say what they want about me and what i do. Your entitled to your opinion.
What would people do people do differently?
If i came across this situation again, i would do nothing differently.
I have never said that the female cyclist was in the right.
when he got out of his car, i had no idea what his state of mind is, and he could have easily gone up to her and punched her. Me, i couldn't let my self stand by and see that. So i put my self in the way and let him know that what ever he does, there is a video of it. This is to hopefully diffuse the situation. For me, this worked, and i wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing again.
It's the superhighway, so i doubt it. She would have been in the cycle lane for the past few miles.JZed wrote:Gaz - any chance of rear cam footage before she comes past you? Chances are she was weaving in and out of traffic on the way down?
Well scalping implies that a. we are both racing and b. i hadn't previously overtaken her.will3 wrote:You got scalped by a girl.
So if a was true. Then she just un-scalped her self And even then, i had stopped at a traffic light and she overtook me as i was getting clipped in.
The main use of my camera is for insurance purposes. I got hit by a car around a year ago because he didn't bother to look when pulling out of a side road. It was a very long battle to just reclaim damages back for my bike let alone the injures i sustained. Having a video camera makes things much easier to prove.Maxticate wrote:Why do you use a camera, why do you put the videos on YouTube and what results have you achieved?
Genuinely interested.
I put the videos on youtube as a learning tool. My videos aren't just of crappy drivers, but also cyclists. I've also done a few videos on how you should cycling in certain situations to minimise conflict with vehicles. From having my camera, i've been able to have feedback from fellow cyclists and in turn i've improved my cycling.
My videos also show that their are issues out there on the road for cyclists. People not seeing us properly and just pulling out. Doing stupid overtakes and driving dangerously. If i get through to only a handful of people about driving safer around cyclists then that is a result.
My results... not as great as some other users of helmet cams who have used their evidence in court for convictions against bad drivers.
But i have been a big user of RoadSafe london and was invited to meet the people that run that. Through my videos about the superhighways i talked to the project manager about them and how we can improve the safety of them.
A few of my videos on dangerous overtakes by lorries and busses are used as an educational video by the police for HGV and LGV drivers.
Several of my videos have been used by the CTC and LCC to highlight issues with cycling infrastructure in london.
And through my contacts at TFL. I got a barclays hire bike for a day, a month before release.
So what would you have done differently?gtvlusso wrote:What results? The result of this is pointing out a "potentially" innocent man and his reg number on an international scale.....Guilt before innocence. I think the view of the comments on here are that:
A, She did something stupid without looking
B, He made the best of a bad job by her
C, She then taps on window
D, Bloke gets out - may have been to apologise or something or even that his door window does not work - we don't know.
E, You intervene
F, It escalates
G, He is then annoyed and pulls a silly move to prove a point....
Blinding! Your "diplomacy" could have hurt someone.....he wasn't annoyed at first!
If you had filmed me, I would be looking into legal proceedings against you - though I doubt there is any course of action to take. So, this guy is now guilty down to your editing and biased perspective.
How very fair of you - get a life loser.....
The man isn't guilty. I just posted a video of what happened, a video that misses out no detail that i saw. It's up to the viewer to decide who is in the wrong. As the general view from where i am, is that the cyclist did make mistakes that lead to what happened but the driver was no angel.
Legal proceedings, unfortunately i've already looked into the legal background of using a video camera on the roads to record such incident and posting the footage on youtube. It is against no laws. Trying to get me done for assault. i doubt that.0 -
gaz545 wrote:
It's the superhighway, so i doubt it. She would have been in the cycle lane for the past few miles.JZed wrote:Gaz - any chance of rear cam footage before she comes past you? Chances are she was weaving in and out of traffic on the way down?
She wasn't exactly sticking to the cycle lane. I wonder whether she'd had a few close calls further up due to her riding style and that culminated in her tapping the last drivers window....all speculation which is why wondered whether there was any rear cam action.0 -
Here's my observation:
On watching the video, I saw a pretty shoddy piece of cycling, like several others here, followed by an overtake by the car that on the video looks close-ish but not terrible. This is followed by an altercation which is exacerbated in my view, based on the video evidence, by Gaz's behaviour. Gaz has said repeatedly 'what else was I supposed to do' - well one thought is to not assume that the driver is some kind of psycho who has leapt out of his car to wreak deadly revenge on the cyclist. The placing of a hand in someone's chest strikes me as a significant act of agression guaranteed to heighten an already tense situation and i can tell you now that I personally would not have done that unless the driver had physically threatened me or someone else.
But this is based on a viewing of the video in the cold light of day - clearly Gaz felt the pass watched in real time was dangerous hence his reaction to it. What it looks like on video and what it looked like as it happened are different things. This, coupled with the common mind set of the cyclist that motorists are in some sense the enemy (which is stronger in some cyclists than others shall we say) and the natural affinity one cyclist has for another, ensured that Gaz approached this situation in a very subjective manner and acted accordingly.0 -
gaz545 wrote:I have never said that the female cyclist was in the right.
when he got out of his car, i had no idea what his state of mind is, and he could have easily gone up to her and punched her. Me, i couldn't let my self stand by and see that. So i put my self in the way and let him know that what ever he does, there is a video of it. This is to hopefully diffuse the situation. For me, this worked, and i wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing again.
You seem to be a very deluded individual. As suggested by others, perhaps you should avoid assuming all drivers are psychotic.gaz545 wrote:I've also done a few videos on how you should cycling in certain situations to minimise conflict with vehicles.
Can you honestly not see the irony here?0 -
What would you have done in this situation Monkeypump if you were in gaz545's shoes?Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.0
-
hey gaz,
i know you haven't accused me of this, but personally, i haven't (as far as I'm aware) had a go at you. i stated that - from what I could see from vid - that maybe you inflamed situation, but i wasn't there to "read" it, so I don't condemn you for it. I wanted to have a discussion about the whole situation, but felt that the thread had started off on too much of a default driver blaming/bashing stance.
i think the discussion was interesting to a point, and i personally am not wholly against the use of vid cams, and felt that some of the abuse aimed at you was too much.
I honestly believe that the tone of the debate became more nasty - and probably raised some of the flak levels you received - when "brekkie" waded in with their usual myopic, unreasoned rubbish. I know that it inflames me. I've edited some posts because I was rude to him/her. But interestingly, brekkie has stopped engaging once I provided some detailed evidence (not opinion) that they were talking rubbish. This is not the first thread that this has happened on.....
Clearly we all have different opinions, one reason we discuss things on fora.
There is one point I would like to make. I read with interest about your reasons for posting vids, but I am uncomfortable about one thing......
If mostly they are "learning" videos, then I think irrespective of the legal issue, morally/ethically, the use of driver's faces - not just on the vid, but "freeze framed' at the end of the vid etc., and the typing up and speaking out of registrations is wrong. Even in cases where you may feel that you have vid evidence useful for a legal battle/conviction, you could still edit the above information out of your vids for youtube consumption. I have to say that those last few seconds of the vid which freeze frame his face and car reg do not stack up with a claim of "learning". Public lynching more like......0 -
Er, I think people are being overly critical of Gaz here. Yes, he's a bit sanctimonious, but well meaning. I've been in situations very similar to that shown in the video. When a driver comes out of their car after being "reprimanded" by a cyclist its only ever as a threatening, bullying act. My impression of the driver's body language was that it was aggressive until Gaz got in the way. Being confronted with a tall bloke rather than the petite woman (he so bravely intended to have a go at) seemed to make him become polite, before becoming aggressive again after he was backed into a corner by Gaz's sanctimonious "You're on Youtube" vigilante speech.
Gaz turned a potentially rather nasty episode of driver bullying into something less unpleasant. He might have come across as self-righteous in the process of doing so, but I bet the woman was grateful that someone stopped and stood up to the driver. It doesn't happen often enough, and this makes bullies think they can get away with threatening behaviour just because they're driving a car. As I said, drivers never get out of the car like that for reasonable debate.0 -
notsoblue wrote:Er, I think people are being overly critical of Gaz here. Yes, he's a bit sanctimonious, but well meaning. I've been in situations very similar to that shown in the video. When a driver comes out of their car after being "reprimanded" by a cyclist its only ever as a threatening, bullying act. My impression of the driver's body language was that it was aggressive until Gaz got in the way. Being confronted with a tall bloke rather than the petite woman (he so bravely intended to have a go at) seemed to make him become polite, before becoming aggressive again after he was backed into a corner by Gaz's sanctimonious "You're on Youtube" vigilante speech.
Gaz turned a potentially rather nasty episode of driver bullying into something less unpleasant. He might have come across as self-righteous in the process of doing so, but I bet the woman was grateful that someone stopped and stood up to the driver. It doesn't happen often enough, and this makes bullies think they can get away with threatening behaviour just because they're driving a car. As I said, drivers never get out of the car like that for reasonable debate.
please can we stop this.
SHE instigated the situation by tapping on the window. I doubt he could tell it was a woman or how big she was.
You're telling me all cyclists's tap on windows for reasonable debate?
I'm not saying that had he gone and shouted at her, or even hit her she would have deserved it - but personally I think the driver should be cut a bit of slack.
Anyway, we have no way of knowing what would have happened, so everybody (including me ) is just speculating to back up their own ideas..... 0 -
gaz545 wrote:I have never said that the female cyclist was in the right.
Ah yes, but the slow mo replay of the incident and fact that you placed this on the internet points a finger of blame at the driver - it is clearly biased and you posting the incident just seeks to emphasize that bias.gaz545 wrote:when he got out of his car, i had no idea what his state of mind is
No you didn't know, did you? - he could have been apologising or asking what was up - may have even known the girl and offered a lift home - or he could not wind down his passenger window.....but you got stuck in anyway....gaz545 wrote:I put the videos on youtube as a learning tool.
So, you are an authority on bike riding, road safety and like a pseudo do gooder Police officer? You also know every situation and know everything about driving every vehicle and every circumstance? How do you know that this guy has not just been called into hostpital to a crtitcally ill relative - just want to get going?! Are you God? Don't give me that bullsh*t about you learning from videos on there - to be honest, if you don't have the confidence on the road and feel that you "have" to use a camera, you simply should not be on the road - admittedly I have been doing this cycling stuff for the best part of 25 years, so I understand the "noob" thing....but if common sense does not give you basic traffic and road skill - seriously, get off the road.gaz545 wrote:A few of my videos on dangerous overtakes by lorries and busses are used as an educational video by the police for HGV and LGV drivers.{/quote]
Well done you - fair enough.gaz545 wrote:Several of my videos have been used by the CTC and LCC to highlight issues with cycling infrastructure in london.
Well done you - fair enoughgtvlusso wrote:What results? The result of this is pointing out a "potentially" innocent man and his reg number on an international scale.....Guilt before innocence. I think the view of the comments on here are that:
A, She did something stupid without looking
B, He made the best of a bad job by her
C, She then taps on window
D, Bloke gets out - may have been to apologise or something or even that his door window does not work - we don't know.
E, You intervene
F, It escalates
G, He is then annoyed and pulls a silly move to prove a point....
Blinding! Your "diplomacy" could have hurt someone.....he wasn't annoyed at first!
If you had filmed me, I would be looking into legal proceedings against you - though I doubt there is any course of action to take. So, this guy is now guilty down to your editing and biased perspective.
How very fair of you - get a life loser.....gaz545 wrote:So what would you have done differently?{/quote]
I would not have been filiming it! And not put it on youtube! Tto be honest, if she starts something completely unecessarily - I would have only intervened if there had been a direct escalation between them - i.e. shouting at each other. And I would have told her what I have told you - she did something stupid and the driver did his best - grow up and walk away/move on.gaz545 wrote:The man isn't guilty. I just posted a video of what happened, a video that misses out no detail that i saw
It also emphasises the pass with slo mo and you have captioned the video....you are clearly making a big deal out of what is essentail stuff all and making this poor guy look like a criminal - his face is on there - re-read your openeing statement on this thread.gaz545 wrote:Legal proceedings, unfortunately i've already looked into the legal background of using a video camera on the roads to record such incident and posting the footage on youtube. It is against no laws. Trying to get me done for assault. i doubt that.
I think you will find that if he makes a complaint against you - then the video would have to be taken down. Yes, there is little to go on in terms of privacy - but how would you feel if you were the motorist in this incident, shown in this manner.....? Seems that quite a few people disagree with you on this one. As you "appear" to be accusing him of something - I think he has a good right to defence - as for self defence - you freely admit to holding him back; the incident has nothing to do with you and yet you feel you need to put your hand on his chest - I make that assault....Shouting in someones face is classed as assault nowadays.....0 -
The next time this driver uses his vehicle as a weapon or screams abuse at people who have done nothing wrong Gaz's video could be used to show what an aggressive, inadequate little man he is.0
