Powertap counting zeros

mrc1

I can only find conflicting advice on the search function so I am looking for a definitive answer.

For the purposes of getting accurate data on my garmin and when downloading to WKO do i include zeros or exclude them on the garmin settings?

As i understand it including zeros will reduce the displayed power average as it takes into account the time that you arent pedalling and lowers your average power correspondingly whereas excluding them would in effect give you an inflated average power figure as coasting time isnt included?

a_n_t

I include them but dont bother much with average power. Normalized power is more relevant.

Anonymous

Always include zeros, as the rest is part of your ride!

Alex_Simmons/RST

Non-zero AP is meaningless since the time spent not pedaling affects what you can do when you are pedaling.

Bronzie

mrc1 wrote:

For the purposes of getting accurate data on my garmin and when downloading to WKO do i include zeros or exclude them on the garmin settings?

Just to clarify, it will only affect average power displayed on the Garmin. It will make no difference to the average and normalised power calculated by WKO+.

jibberjim

Auto pause is the more important one, and has to be off.

Anonymous

^^ That's the one I meant! On club runs/group rides, you often hear a chorus of Garmin beeps whenever we come to a stop and I don't get it, the stop is part of your ride and will affect how you are after the stop, so it should be recorded...

Pokerface

NapoleonD wrote:

^^ That's the one I meant! On club runs/group rides, you often hear a chorus of Garmin beeps whenever we come to a stop and I don't get it, the stop is part of your ride and will affect how you are after the stop, so it should be recorded...

So do you leave your Garmin running the entire time you are sat in the cafe eating your cake?

For me there is a difference between auto pause and not counting zeros (like when you are coasting down a hill). Even though the auto pause will skew the results - I tend to look at my ride in chunks and use the lap function, so a stop at a light would most likely mean starting a new lap upon restarting. I suspect you are the same.

jibberjim

Pokerface wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

^^ That's the one I meant! On club runs/group rides, you often hear a chorus of Garmin beeps whenever we come to a stop and I don't get it, the stop is part of your ride and will affect how you are after the stop, so it should be recorded...

So do you leave your Garmin running the entire time you are sat in the cafe eating your cake?

For me there is a difference between auto pause and not counting zeros (like when you are coasting down a hill). Even though the auto pause will skew the results - I tend to look at my ride in chunks and use the lap function, so a stop at a light would most likely mean starting a new lap upon restarting. I suspect you are the same.

I often leave my garmin running in the tea stop, but I think it's better to have the garmin record everything, and chop the data out afterwards in your editing/analysis tool if you stop for longer than you consider part of the ride - which is a couple of minutes for me.

Bronzie

Also make sure you have set the Garmin to "Every Second" recording rather than "Smart Recording" as WKO+ will not work correctly with data that has been "smart recorded"

amaferanga

I'd split a ride with a cafe stop into 2 separate rides - reset activity and switch the Garmin off while in the cafe. I'd have thought that most people wouldn't be too interested in such a ride from a power perspective anyway.

Anything else (traffic lights, junctions, phaff stops, etc.) will be included in the ride for me with no auto pausing. I don't really get auto-pause anyway since you can get things like moving time and moving average speeds from analysis software. What is the advantage of auto-pause when you're not using power?

jibberjim

amaferanga wrote:

I'd split a ride with a cafe stop into 2 separate rides - reset activity and switch the Garmin off while in the cafe. I'd have thought that most people wouldn't be too interested in such a ride from a power perspective anyway.

I'm very interested in my power from such rides - but of course only in the intervals they contain and not overall other than in kJ tersm.

amaferanga wrote:

I don't really get auto-pause anyway since you can get things like moving time and moving average speeds from analysis software. What is the advantage of auto-pause when you're not using power?

A lot of people like looking down and seeing a high average speed. The 22km/h I have at the end on my Garmin would depress people.

Pokerface

I use auto pause because I am weak and worthless. I need to use every trick I can to get my average power numbers and up feel better about myself. I don't care if it's a lie. :oops:

Anonymous

I just leave it running when in the cafe, not least because I would probably forget to restate it. If it is a longvride though I'll turn it off to save battery...

amaferanga

jibberjim wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

I'd split a ride with a cafe stop into 2 separate rides - reset activity and switch the Garmin off while in the cafe. I'd have thought that most people wouldn't be too interested in such a ride from a power perspective anyway.

I'm very interested in my power from such rides - but of course only in the intervals they contain and not overall other than in kJ tersm.

That's kind of what I meant. The average for the whole ride isn't of much interest.

mrc1

Thanks for the posts above - I had incorrectly assumed that the counting zeros setting would affect the data that goes to WKO+ (which is what I am bothered about) - as it doesnt it is less of an issue but I will keep them counted to avoid me getting skewed figures.

The whole thing is actually less of an issue as I am currently confined to the turbo for most of my rides due to recovery from an operation..... I tend not to free wheel during 2x20s

Auto pause is off and as i understand it, on connecting a powertap the garmin automatically switches from "smart recording" to recording every second so I should have everything sorted - cheers.

Bronzie

mrc1 wrote:

as i understand it, on connecting a powertap the garmin automatically switches from "smart recording" to recording every second

Not with the Garmin firmware (2.9?) I'm using but it may be true for later versions of the firmware

jibberjim

Bronzie wrote:

mrc1 wrote:

as i understand it, on connecting a powertap the garmin automatically switches from "smart recording" to recording every second

Not with the Garmin firmware (2.9?) I'm using but it may be true for later versions of the firmware

That's a feature of the Garmin 500 - where there's no choice but to use Smart Recording unless you have a Power Meter when there's not choice but to not use Smart Recording.

It's a little smarter, but less flexible than the Garmin 705.

mrc1

Bronzie wrote:

mrc1 wrote:

as i understand it, on connecting a powertap the garmin automatically switches from "smart recording" to recording every second

Not with the Garmin firmware (2.9?) I'm using but it may be true for later versions of the firmware

Iv got the latest Edge 500 firmware which according to the bumf (page 34 of the manual below) automatically switches to 1 second recording. There is no way of manually overriding it, it just does it when it detects a power meter. Apparently the next update will offer a manual override like the 705 has but we'll see.

http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/Edge500_OwnersManual.pdf

Bronzie

Ah OK, I'm using a Housebrick(TM) 705

Anonymous

mrc1 wrote:

according to the bumf (page 34 of the manual below) automatically switches to 1 second recording.

WTF?!?

You actually read the manual? :shock:

mrc1

NapoleonD wrote:

mrc1 wrote:

according to the bumf (page 34 of the manual below) automatically switches to 1 second recording.

WTF?!?

You actually read the manual? :shock:

Poor form on my part I know :oops:

Pokerface

As an aside - was just sent a brand new Garmin 500 today after my old one stopped connecting to my computer (it recorded everything correctly - I just couldn't upload to the web or my computer, etc)

mrc1

Pokerface wrote:

As an aside - was just sent a brand new Garmin 500 today after my old one stopped connecting to my computer (it recorded everything correctly - I just couldn't upload to the web or my computer, etc)

By the retailer or garmin?

A mate of mine bought a 705 from wiggle which stopped working a few weeks ago (11 months after he bought it) and they sent him a brand new 705 with no questions asked.....

Pokerface

mrc1 wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

As an aside - was just sent a brand new Garmin 500 today after my old one stopped connecting to my computer (it recorded everything correctly - I just couldn't upload to the web or my computer, etc)

By the retailer or garmin?

A mate of mine bought a 705 from wiggle which stopped working a few weeks ago (11 months after he bought it) and they sent him a brand new 705 with no questions asked.....

Sent it back to Garmin. Took less than 2 weeks to get a new one sent out.

(However, I sent a damaged Assos jersey that was a year old back to Wiggle and they sent out a brand new one, no questions asked!)