Conflicting cycling goals - advice please...

bigpikle

I am struggling to work out whether there is any common training ground for my goals for next year and would appreciate some advice from the more experienced people here please.

My #1 goal next year is to complete the Raid Pyrenean in Sept, so at the back of my mind going into next year is the thought that everything I do must contribute towards achieving that eg build endurance and power to scale 11 cols and >400 miles in 100 hours....and enjoying it and riding it 'strongly'.

But, after starting cyclocross racing this autumn I'd also like to do that again next autumn/winter and am tempted to maybe even try and do some mid-week racing with the LVRC during the summer now I am young enough to join! My goal here is simply to compete and stay with the pack as much as possible and enjoy it.

The challenge is that I have some way to go in all 3 of these areas. I'll finish this year with close to 4000 miles under my tyres having completed plenty of long rides (60+) and a century so am well on my way to building a solid endurance base, but back to back centuries for several days will require a good bit more if i am to enjoy it and finish strongly. The other need I have is to increase my power significantly as well, as although my speed and ability to turn a larger gear has improved significantly this last year, I still have a way to go before I'm cruising at 20mph and able to hang onto a pack for any period of time. In the 'cross races I've done so far I guess I'm about 2/3 of the way back down the field in my category most of the time, with both power and skills holding me back right now.

So, is there any chance of training successfully for ALL of these goals or do I need to accept the need for compromise and maybe give up a lower priority goal? Something is telling me I should be able to train to develop my power so that it will help me ride the Raid strongly AND give me a significant increase in pace that would mean I wouldnt be humiliated in a race and really help my 'cross performances later in the year as well. Thoughts?

sheffsimon

Bigpikle wrote:

I am struggling to work out whether there is any common training ground for my goals for next year and would appreciate some advice from the more experienced people here please.

My #1 goal next year is to complete the Raid Pyrenean in Sept, so at the back of my mind going into next year is the thought that everything I do must contribute towards achieving that eg build endurance and power to scale 11 cols and >400 miles in 100 hours....and enjoying it and riding it 'strongly'.

But, after starting cyclocross racing this autumn I'd also like to do that again next autumn/winter and am tempted to maybe even try and do some mid-week racing with the LVRC during the summer now I am young enough to join! My goal here is simply to compete and stay with the pack as much as possible and enjoy it.

The challenge is that I have some way to go in all 3 of these areas. I'll finish this year with close to 4000 miles under my tyres having completed plenty of long rides (60+) and a century so am well on my way to building a solid endurance base, but back to back centuries for several days will require a good bit more if i am to enjoy it and finish strongly. The other need I have is to increase my power significantly as well, as although my speed and ability to turn a larger gear has improved significantly this last year, I still have a way to go before I'm cruising at 20mph and able to hang onto a pack for any period of time. In the 'cross races I've done so far I guess I'm about 2/3 of the way back down the field in my category most of the time, with both power and skills holding me back right now.

So, is there any chance of training successfully for ALL of these goals or do I need to accept the need for compromise and maybe give up a lower priority goal? Something is telling me I should be able to train to develop my power so that it will help me ride the Raid strongly AND give me a significant increase in pace that would mean I wouldnt be humiliated in a race and really help my 'cross performances later in the year as well. Thoughts?

2 x 20 intervals, google em for more info, on turbo or road, starting soon. Maybe some sprint sessions in the new year. Long slow rides are of minimal benefit for your cross and LVRC ambitions and intervals will boost your power/endurance/fitness far more than tooling along for hours at 15mph.

SBezza

Concentrate on the main goal first and foremost. The more cycling you do the fastest you will get in other aspects of the sport. You could try to mix things up on the endurance rides, doing a chunk of it at tempo or threshold level, or even put some sprint intervals within the ride.

Endurance rides DO NOT NEED TO BE SLOW

These will make the ride alot harder, but you can then get some race speed in your legs as well. You are right in that it is a challenge, but priortise the main goal and work to that.[/b]

jgsi

Bigpikle wrote:

I, I still have a way to go before I'm cruising at 20mph and able to hang onto a pack for any period of time. ?

This is what you need to work on... it is also something I have to work on as well.
As mentioned .. intervals long and short ... sustained pace rides.
Reliability rides in the new year also a good idea.

Tom Butcher

I'd train for your number one goal and then if you can do some LVRC races off the back of that all to the good. I think in your circumstances long fairly slow rides, especially on consecutive days, are going to be useful prep even if they aren't the ideal for the road racing.

I agree that endurance rides don't have to be slow but unless you are already quite powerful with very good endurance I think there is value in aiming to do some where a consistent easy/steady pace is the aim rather than pressing on the pedals.

bigpikle

thanks everyone - some good pointers.

I have done a few weeks of higher intensity sessions from the Time crunched Cyclist in the run up to the cross season, but my prep was cut short by a few weeks with a nasty bug that just knocked me sideways for a few weeks. I've kept some high intensity sessions mid-week between races as much as possible as well since.

I've read about 2x20's loads on here and thought they might come up. I actually did a session for the first time at the start of last week, indoors on my turbo, and was looking at making them a weekly session over winter on the turbo. I also have the Sufferfest workouts and have used them, but havent quite worked out the key to how to combine the various types of intervals they use to get the best effect just yet.

Luckily I have 2 great riding partners and we ride pretty much every Saturday and often mid-week as well - long rides up to 60-70 miles frequently as well as shorter higher intensity stuff when we can. Last weekend we got a 45 miler in early and it was really much more of a tempo ride for most of the time rather than a slower endurance pace which is pretty typical when we go together and get a little competitive. We also have a good schedule of reliability rides and other distance events planned in for the late winter and early spring, to help make sure we hit the spring with plenty of base miles in our legs.

I looked at my ride data over the last 12 months and with little structured work I have seen a massive improvement in performance, so hopefully with a little more structured interval training over winter and plenty of riding time I should continue to develop at a good pace as I'm nowhere near my potential just yet!

We also tend to ride singlespeeds quite a lot and given we live on the edge of the Chilterns it gives us a pretty good workout every ride. My plan was also to try and ride singlespeed as much as possible over winter and was wondering if the higher intensity sessions that generates might give me a power boost? I know there's a lot of arguments for and against SS but there's no doubting the extra burn it gives and it has certainly made me a more 'flexible' rider this year with less need to change gear constantly to keep the cadence where I'm comfortable. Any thoughts on this?

jibberjim

It's quite common to periodise your training, and 10months from your main goal, it's normal to be doing more general training and less specific training. The needs of your goal are for long endurance, so that's your specific training. Doing the same thing for 10months tends not to build overall fitness that well as the body adapts rapidly to it. So a very appropriate phase of training for september would be cyclocross and other solid hard shorter efforts now.

Losely, and it's not really as simple as this but it's a way of looking at it - the specific training of the raid - long miles - will increase your ability to ride at a higher percentage of your one hour effort. Whereas short hard training will increase your one hour effort, if you just do the raid training now your one hour effort will not increase so you'll still end up slower on the raid.

I can't see possibly how riding a singlespeed would create higher intensity sessions, indeed the limitations caused by it would likely lower the aerobic intensity significantly (as you both spin out quickly on the flat/descents, and are limited by leg strength on the ascents). Certainly it may generate a tougher leg workout on occasion, but your legs are not something that will limit you on the Raid.

bigpikle

jibberjim wrote:

I can't see possibly how riding a singlespeed would create higher intensity sessions, indeed the limitations caused by it would likely lower the aerobic intensity significantly (as you both spin out quickly on the flat/descents, and are limited by leg strength on the ascents). Certainly it may generate a tougher leg workout on occasion, but your legs are not something that will limit you on the Raid.

Jim

Thanks for your input. I guess what I mean by higher intensity is that going hard on a rolling course on my single gets my HR high very quickly and it's easy to keep it there for long periods if I choose. High cadence on the flats and lower cadence but high exertion time on the hills both contribute to me spending a lot of time at the upper end of my HR range as well as leaving me with legs that feel very well 'worked' in the same way that a 2x20 on the turbo would with a geared bike. Is this not the same end result - time at a level of physical intensity?

If I'm getting this all wrong then I'd really like to understand the correct picture.

Thanks

danlikesbikes

Bigpikle wrote:

thanks everyone - some good pointers.

I have done a few weeks of higher intensity sessions from the Time crunched Cyclist in the run up to the cross season, but my prep was cut short by a few weeks with a nasty bug that just knocked me sideways for a few weeks. I've kept some high intensity sessions mid-week between races as much as possible as well since.

I've read about 2x20's loads on here and thought they might come up. I actually did a session for the first time at the start of last week, indoors on my turbo, and was looking at making them a weekly session over winter on the turbo. I also have the Sufferfest workouts and have used them, but havent quite worked out the key to how to combine the various types of intervals they use to get the best effect just yet.

Luckily I have 2 great riding partners and we ride pretty much every Saturday and often mid-week as well - long rides up to 60-70 miles frequently as well as shorter higher intensity stuff when we can. Last weekend we got a 45 miler in early and it was really much more of a tempo ride for most of the time rather than a slower endurance pace which is pretty typical when we go together and get a little competitive. We also have a good schedule of reliability rides and other distance events planned in for the late winter and early spring, to help make sure we hit the spring with plenty of base miles in our legs.

I looked at my ride data over the last 12 months and with little structured work I have seen a massive improvement in performance, so hopefully with a little more structured interval training over winter and plenty of riding time I should continue to develop at a good pace as I'm nowhere near my potential just yet!

We also tend to ride singlespeeds quite a lot and given we live on the edge of the Chilterns it gives us a pretty good workout every ride. My plan was also to try and ride singlespeed as much as possible over winter and was wondering if the higher intensity sessions that generates might give me a power boost? I know there's a lot of arguments for and against SS but there's no doubting the extra burn it gives and it has certainly made me a more 'flexible' rider this year with less need to change gear constantly to keep the cadence where I'm comfortable. Any thoughts on this?

Sounds like your doing the right thing with your training so far - Plus you've got a good base in your now so the only was it up. Whatever you train for should help in cross training for other parts. Good luck with meeting your goals.

jibberjim

Bigpikle wrote:

Thanks for your input. I guess what I mean by higher intensity is that going hard on a rolling course on my single gets my HR high very quickly and it's easy to keep it there for long periods if I choose.

If that's what it achieves then yes... but I don't see why you can't do the same intensity easier on a geared bike? Normally you'll lose the ability to continue put out the same intensity when the gear is very inappropriate.

bigpikle

Good point and of course that's correct, but I guess once I set out on the single then there's no option but a hard ride! Gears give me a way out when the going gets tough and it's too easy to take it sometimes.

Singlespeed is also quiet, fun, simple and a different type o riding which I really enjoy

jibberjim

Bigpikle wrote:

Singlespeed is also quiet, fun, simple and a different type o riding which I really enjoy

Then keep doing it - any training you enjoy is better than any training you don't. Simply because you'll do it.