Modern Art

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

I think art is more than just aesthetic.

It's about the idea and the feelings, and intangible & tangible things it gives you (or not).

We all know that art is not truth. Art is a lie that makes us realise truth, at least the truth that is given us to understand. The artist must know the manner whereby to convince others of the truthfulness of his lies.

guinea

Modern art often infuriates me, but then I hate crosswords.

You see a pile of something, or a picture or something or a lump or suomething. It often looks nice, but doesn't make any sense.

Then you read the card beside it that attempts to justify or explain the artwork. The card is like the solution to a hideously impossible crossword puzzle. At this point I usually roll my eyes and wander to the next piece of impenetrable rubbish.

I like lots of art to look at, but the justifications for it leave me cold.

And don't get me started on the critics. Thay all remind me of Brüno.

AndyF16

In my job I regularly move large works by Anish Kapoor around Europe, and over about 7 years I felt maybe I was developing a deeper appreciation of them - then I realised it was mainly the sculptures which brought to mind breasts and other female forms :oops:

Lovely piece of work there by the way Plankton 8)

Tom BB

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.......

Lol at the OP.....just wait till nearer xmas-he'll be telling us that 4'33 by John Cage isnt music

Big fan of some modern art personally....same with all other 'art forms' some of it escapes me, but then thats the point isn't it?

verylonglegs

Tom BB wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.......

Lol at the OP.....just wait till nearer xmas-he'll be telling us that 4'33 by John Cage isnt music

Big fan of some modern art personally....same with all other 'art forms' some of it escapes me, but then thats the point isn't it?

Yeah, given that art is all subjective anyway the only thing of note I found in this thread was a cyclist making fun of engineering.....

rick_chasey

verylonglegs wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.......

Lol at the OP.....just wait till nearer xmas-he'll be telling us that 4'33 by John Cage isnt music

Big fan of some modern art personally....same with all other 'art forms' some of it escapes me, but then thats the point isn't it?

Yeah, given that art is all subjective anyway the only thing of note I found in this thread was a cyclist making fun of engineering.....

Engineers, not engineering. 8)

RichN95.

They say that modern art, or art as a whole, is about provoking feelings in the observer, whatever those feelings may be.

The sunflower seeds provoked some strong feelings within me. Mostly it was an acute sense of pity.



Pity for the poor sods who have got to clear all that crap up.


(That's a genuine reaction to seeing pictures of it)

Mettan

guinea wrote:

You see a pile of something,

Yep - much installation art seems to be informed with mediocre concepts - I do like some painters though - this guy is a creative genuis imho:

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&bi ... a=N&tab=wi

Anonymous

I work for unilever and have had the opportunity for privte viewings for tate modern to view installations before the public do and also have private viewings after hours. Modern art is an individual being, as like Rickchasey says it is not purely aesthetic but emotive and thought provoking too. If the art you look at, feel, touch, hear or just experience makes you react in any way then I think that piece has stirred you.

The Sunflower seed art is lovely, don't care if it was mass produced. Andy Warhol had a mini production line in the "Factory" churning out screen prints and they are considered iconic.

Art, modern or otherwise is undervalued in the UK and needs to be given a higher profile, rather than a sidenote on a "wacky piece" on the news for the majority to gnash and wail about.

rml380z

I kinda like these large, flamboyant, displays in Tate Modern. I'm not sure if they're art, but they uplift my spirit, lift my mood and make me smile.

So saying that, I was looking forward to seeing the sunflowers, but as you can no longer walk on them,I think it defeats the whole point, so I'm not going to bother going.

verylonglegs

dmclite wrote:

Art, modern or otherwise is undervalued in the UK and needs to be given a higher profile, rather than a sidenote on a "wacky piece" on the news for the majority to gnash and wail about.

Agreed, art is very important for historical study too.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Tom BB wrote:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.......

Lol at the OP.....just wait till nearer xmas-he'll be telling us that 4'33 by John Cage isnt music

Big fan of some modern art personally....same with all other 'art forms' some of it escapes me, but then thats the point isn't it?

Yeah, given that art is all subjective anyway the only thing of note I found in this thread was a cyclist making fun of engineering.....

Engineers, not engineering. 8)

That outlook's disappointing, Rick.

I'm an Engineer who appreciates modern art and other things I expect you reckon I wouldn't appreciate... so I guess that does not compute.

Don't put people in boxes, mate.

Cleat Eastwood

art can have any meaning or no meaning; i like to think of it as a non verbal way of communicating experiences and ideas that are too immutably linked to be expressed through conventional language.

The sunflower seeds seemed loaded with meaning. A huge dialogue between commerce, nature and politics.


Any work of art is best seen in the context of the oeuvre of the artist rather than adhering to the constraints of a movement. I believe its the bourgeois limitations of description that limit arts mass appeal. If an audience is told picasso is cubist or schiele a romantacist its a clear obvious ideological block since artists are often operating outside of convention trying to find unique and accessible forms to express themselves.

I think Matts view of art is not uncommon which is a shame because as an engineer he has prbably been exposed to some of the greatest artists of the last and previous centuries; brunel, stephenson, Telford


Art has always formed the oddest of associations, the renaissance linked with emerging global commerce, the futurists with scientific and engineering progress and latterly arts associations with the media.

I suppose in one way to have an opinion of a work of art is better than having no opinion at all.

For what its worth these images always ring with a deep fascination; infact kiefers parsifal almost literally made me faint (stendhal syndrome)

I give you chgall,schwitrers and kiefer.







And if you want to listen to a fantastic debate about the inclusion/exclusion of the working class in art, and what arts social function is check out lee halls Pitmen Painters. It was on radio 3 a wee while back but you can get it from our friend the interweb.

And as an final aside if you think art is meaningless I have a friend who is teaching art in the emirates and she has been told not to make refernce to any art that depicts christ as it is ideologically unsound. What cannot be said but can yet be understood is still the greatest power of man so lets embrace art and be happy.

ddraver

I'm sure you fully believe all that stuff Cleat but it still does nt help people like me and the OP who a childs collage of some faded looking paper, 2 pictures of a house and an example of a religious fundamentalism.

I'm not trying to be difficult but there are some people who just don't get it, and trust me, it's not because we re all stupid!

Chip \'oyler

ddraver wrote:

I'm sure you fully believe all that stuff Cleat but it still does nt help people like me and the OP who a childs collage of some faded looking paper, 2 pictures of a house and an example of a religious fundamentalism.

I'm not trying to be difficult but there are some people who just don't get it, and trust me, it's not because we re all stupid!

If you don't get it, you don't get it. What's the problem?

ddraver

I feel like I'm missing something??

Also, people seem to think that people don't get it because we re stupid - For example (the only one i can think) of, when Grayson Perry was on HIGNFY, Ian asked him the "Is it Art question" and he responded with something along the lines of "For god's sake, you re an intelligent man Ian, don't ask stupid questions"

Sorry, but some people see an unmade bed and thin it's an unmade bed, or call a spade a spade...

I went to the tate modern to try and understand this stuff and could nt help thinking that the giant table and chairs, although it was pretty cool, was just a giant table and chairs - I found Monet and Van Gogh paintings much more emotive, but perhaps that's because i admire the technical skill...that I don't have

Cleat Eastwood

I dont believe people who dont get art are stupid, because ultimately theres nothing to get. You either like the work for all or some of its parts or you dont.

As for Grayson Perry he is on of the most unpretentious accessible artists around, i think his point about is it art is that its a fatuous question. It is what it is.

Interestingly modern art (if such a thing exists) set out to demystify its construction/social fucntion and make the viewers response part of the work.

The problem, as i see it, with the beliitling by critics of the anti art brigade is that art and it appreciation is used as a commodity. The bourgeois defnders of their priceless commodity dont every tom dick or harry having access to and changing the current discourse about art and value.

This debate though is as old as the hills. There is a famous painting by Malevich which is just a black square on a white background, called funnily enough Black square on a white background.

Malevich's point was to suggest that art and colour does have to have meaning, it is just, simply and only a black square on a white background. Just as a painting by any artist can be sh1t or not sh1t....its just opinion.

Interestingly (he says knowing that its not interesting at all) the responses to the sunflower seeds are probably what weiwei wants. The sunflower seeds are meant to represent the seeds that will grow to mature sunflowers and turn their faces toward Mao, the proclaimed sun of the east. Each seed wil do so by its nature, unable to change its destiny; but if you say its sh1t, that you dont get it.....then what does that say about communism or state control; that no matter how predestined our lives may appear to be there is always a dissent, an individual voice that disrupts the prevailing ideology, your voice becomes the new seed from which all dissent can grow.

Its a clever piece of work, and thats just my reading of it, doesnt make me clever or stupid or anything other than engaged. Other works leave me cold. But then thats life., as indeed is art.

plankton

With regards to Perry’s comments would it have been better if he had said “educated man”?
I did see the programme and I’m fairly sure he also said Duchamp and many like him had proved that the “Is it art” question void. Which it is. This was pretty much done from the late 1890’s right through the 1900’s. Ian should (and did) know this but was just trying to be awkward. So many lazy newspaper columnists insist on asking “is it art?” in a derogatory way evertime someone like Emin or Perry organise a show, I think explains his prickly response. His work doesn’t talk that way.

It is up to the viewer to do their homework though. If you don’t get a piece or artist but want to, why not find out? Don’t be intimidated people over complicating it.
The finished product may only be a small or even insignificant part of the art. If you really want to understand something you have a look, read about it, take it a part, try and do it yourself, talk to others about it or talk to the artist. The finial bit of art might not necessarily give you all of even any of those answers. Unfortunately All art and not just modern is like that.

On the other hand, there are areas (parasites) within art which do try and make it sound more complicated, smarter, posher or higher, than it is. It makes them feel more important or just hides their insecurities. Some people like to think they know and you don’t. They are in secret group or club. Sometimes a bit like the class or cast systems. All bolli and a waste of everyone’s time and money. If you learn the basics you can pick the rest up if you want to. If you want to understand art use your senses, largely ignore what anyone tells you and you should be fine. Guidance is good but telling is wrong.
Art is for everyone.