Modern Art

MattC59
MattC59 Posts: 5,408
edited November 2010 in The bottom bracket
Explain and Discuss ?

Personally, 100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art.

*Hand Made my ar$e !!!
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
«1

Comments

  • simonaspinall
    simonaspinall Posts: 645
    MattC59 wrote:
    Explain and Discuss ?

    Personally, 100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art.

    *Hand Made my ar$e !!!

    It is quite an abstract concept, however going back to the beginning of impressionism, pop art, surrealism and so forth, it reflects it's time and frankly is a work of genius to encapsulate such massive subjects in a frame.

    I suppose it depends on what genre of modern art you are talking about
    What wheels...? Wheelsmith.co.uk!
  • Stewie Griffin
    Stewie Griffin Posts: 4,330
    MattC59 wrote:
    Explain and Discuss ?

    Personally, 100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art.

    *Hand Made my ar$e !!!

    They are hand painted and made from porcelain, however, I wont be wasting any time going to see them. Certainly wont be going to see Gauguin either, I look at his paintings and think he paints like a child.

    Each to their own though, your mileage may vary and other such get out of any argument clauses.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    MattC59 wrote:
    Explain and Discuss ?

    Personally, 100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art.

    *Hand Made my ar$e !!!

    If you go to the exhibtion you'll see how it was made - pretty much an entire village was dedicated to producing them. They were all hand made.

    You can take a look at them more closely if you ask one of the security people nicely.
    _
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Stewie Griffin wrote:
    They are hand painted and made from porcelain....
    Bit of a cop out getting others to make them though !
    (assuming 5seconds to paint each seed, that's 1157.4 days of work. Solid, 24/7, no breaks or sleeping)

    If he'd painted them properly, maybe they wouldn't have had to shut the exhibit. :D
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • plankton
    plankton Posts: 78
    100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art

    Why don't you think it is art?
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    They were all hand made....
    No disrespect Rick, but I don't believe that. Lets say there are 200people in said village and they're just painting them, not making them. At 5secs per seed, that's still over 17days, working an 8hr day with no breaks or interaction to disrupt the painting.

    I think that machine made or made in large moulds, then painted is more likely.

    Anyway, the idea of this thread wasn't to discuss the technicalities of the seeds, it was to try to get some insight into modern art. Frankly, I just don't understand it !!

    Tracy Emmin's bed............. f*ck off !!!
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    plankton wrote:
    100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art

    Why don't you think it is art?
    Probably because I'm an engineer................... :roll: :wink:
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    MattC59 wrote:
    plankton wrote:
    100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art

    Why don't you think it is art?
    Probably because I'm an engineer*................... :roll: :wink:


    *read bore.
    _
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    MattC59 wrote:
    plankton wrote:
    100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art

    Why don't you think it is art?
    Probably because I'm an engineer*................... :roll: :wink:


    *read bore.
    Due to the lack of smilies ets, I'm not sure whether that's supposed to be light hearted or not............ but judging from your previous posts, views and tone in other threads, I'm guessing it's not.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • balthazar
    balthazar Posts: 1,565
    Whether it is or isn't art is a pointless discussion: if the artist claims it as art, then it may as well be. Why demur? Allowing something to count as "Art" isn't a value judgement, and expresses no tacit approval: something can be both "Art", and terrible and worthless, at the same time.

    The interesting discussion is whether or not the art is any good.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    MattC59 wrote:
    Due to the lack of smilies ets, I'm not sure whether that's supposed to be light hearted or not............ but judging from your previous posts, views and tone in other threads, I'm guessing it's not.

    Aw, boo hoo.

    I'm quite keen on the piece - I'm keen on tactile art anyway - it's just a shame the H&S hadn't been properly thought through. You'd have thought they could possibly sprinkle a fine mist to keep the dust down but I think the paint woud run then.
    _
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ............ it's just a shame the H&S hadn't been properly thought through. You'd have thought they could possibly sprinkle a fine mist to keep the dust down but I think the paint woud run then.
    Nope, I wouldn't have thought that.........
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    balthazar wrote:
    Whether it is or isn't art is a pointless discussion: if the artist claims it as art, then it may as well be. Why demur? Allowing something to count as "Art" isn't a value judgement, and expresses no tacit approval: something can be both "Art", and terrible and worthless, at the same time.

    The interesting discussion is whether or not the art is any good.
    Good point ! Not somehting I've dug into before, as it's not really my thing.
    Apparently, art is "the products of human creativity" or "the creation of beautiful or significant things"....... amongst many more long winded and philosophical definitions. So, as you say, the question is "Is is good art"
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • nottscobb
    nottscobb Posts: 147
    A family friend is an artist. He used to paint what I (as an engineer) would call proper landscapes and struggled to make any money from his work. One day, for a laugh he slapped some paint on a canvas and gave it a title - he then got offered more for that than any of the pieces he spent hours perfecting. 2 weeks later he took the same piece to another gallery, hung it up the other way, gave it a different name and got offered even more. From that day on he's not wasted his time trying to sell true representative landscape paintings.

    As an engineer and hobbyist craftsman I don't see why people don't appreciate the work that goes into a detailed painting. However, I guess if people want a picture of a scene on their wall they'll buy a photo, if they want something abstract they buy a painting.
  • plankton
    plankton Posts: 78
    I sell artwork too.
    I have also sold a piece which has taken a couple of hours for a lot more money than one which has taken a few days. Just because someone paid more for it does not mean it is a better piece of art though. Just someone was willing to pay more for it.

    The quality of art should not be judged by finance, though tell that to satchi and most of his leeches.
    Different people buy work for different reasons. Most are fine with me.
  • chunkytfg
    chunkytfg Posts: 358
    Is the Mona Lisa art or merely a photograph using the facilities available for the time? :lol:
    FCN 7

    FCN 4

    if you use irrational measures to measure me, expect me to behave irrationally to measure up
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    These sunflower seeds - are they all painted differently or something? If they're all the same, and they're a very good representation of sunflower seeds, why not just collect a million sunflower seeds? That would save time and money.
  • pb21
    pb21 Posts: 2,171
    MattC59 wrote:
    plankton wrote:
    100 Million hand made* sunflower seeds in the Tate's turbine Hall isn't art

    Why don't you think it is art?
    Probably because I'm an engineer................... :roll: :wink:

    I’m an engineer and think its art, and I like a lot of modern art.

    I guess it’s part of the personality trait ‘openness’. Peoples openness varies and that will influence how much they appreciate all art, including modern art.
    Mañana
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    johnfinch wrote:
    These sunflower seeds - are they all painted differently or something? If they're all the same, and they're a very good representation of sunflower seeds, why not just collect a million sunflower seeds? That would save time and money.

    They're naturally all a little different since they're all painted by hand and were painted quite quickly.
    _
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    johnfinch wrote:
    These sunflower seeds - are they all painted differently or something? If they're all the same, and they're a very good representation of sunflower seeds, why not just collect a million sunflower seeds? That would save time and money.

    They're naturally all a little different since they're all painted by hand.

    Of course there will be some difference, just as there are differences between any two sunflower seeds in a flower. What I meant was, are they meant to all be a realistic depiction of sunflower seeds, or are there any with interesting little pictures or something?

    I've only heard a bit about this exhibition, so I'm just curious.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    a-close-up-photograph-of-013-1.jpg
    _
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    Thanks for the pic, Rick.

    Whatever anyone says about the artistic merits of this work, I'm very impressed by the level of detail and accuracy.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    johnfinch wrote:
    Thanks for the pic, Rick.

    Whatever anyone says about the artistic merits of this work, I'm very impressed by the level of detail and accuracy.

    It is much more interesting if you can see them up close/pick them up. That's why it's a shame it's now behind tape.
    _
  • plankton
    plankton Posts: 78
    edited November 2010
    Does it matter if the seeds were or were not painted by the artist, other people or robots?
    Isn't how the work and yourself relate to each other rather than other people's relationships
    with the art?

    On a side note, this is my Autumnal drawing for 2010.
    Ffinished late a couple of days ago (just the odd bit here and ther anyhoo)

    spidsdrawing025MediumSmall.jpg


    I am also available for births, deaths, bar mitzvahs and weddings :)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    plankton wrote:
    Does it matter if the seeds were or were not painted by the artist, other people or robots?

    I think it does. It's part of the concept - a bit like Shed Boat Shed.
    _
  • plankton
    plankton Posts: 78
    I think it does. It's part of the concept - a bit like Shed Boat Shed.

    So would you think the work not as good if you found out the artist had employed someone else to make it, even if it looked the same?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited November 2010
    plankton wrote:
    I think it does. It's part of the concept - a bit like Shed Boat Shed.

    So would you think the work not as good if you found out the artist had employed someone else to make it, even if it looked the same?
    Which piece of art are you refering to?

    The sunflower seeds - that was made by an awful lot of people.


    Edit: I think art is more than just aesthetic.

    It's about the idea and the feelings, and intangible & tangible things it gives you (or not).
    _
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    plankton wrote:
    Does it matter if the seeds were or were not painted by the artist, other people or robots?
    Isn't how the work and yourself relate to each other rather than other people's relationships
    with the art?

    On a side note, this is my Autumnal drawing for 2010.
    Ffinished late a couple of days ago (just the odd bit here and ther anyhoo)

    spidsdrawing025MediumSmall.jpg


    I am also available for births, deaths, bar mitzvahs and weddings :)

    Good sketch.

    Where did you find a red squirrel willing to sit still for that long?

    In fact, where did you find a........ oh never mind.
  • plankton
    plankton Posts: 78
    I killed it first then nailed it to the tree :)

    Rick Chasey

    Either really.
    Do you need the background from the artist to make it a good pice?
    If you found that shed boat shed was made by someone else, would it spoil your appreciation of it?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    plankton wrote:
    Rick Chasey

    Either really.
    Do you need the background from the artist to make it a good pice?
    If you found that shed boat shed was made by someone else, would it spoil your appreciation of it?

    Erm, if the background is part of the art then yes I think you do.

    I have no idea about the artist who made shedboatshed, I just happen to like the idea of it, and when you see it you try and look for its background right now; marks where the wood sat in the water as a boat, etc etc.
    _

Categories