HR Zone 2?!

wasabi_m

Just started winter training for the first time. Following a program that builds up to 10 hours per week. Majority is at HR zone 2. With some work a bit higher.

Just been for my first of the program after a three week break from the bike. Session was 60 mins at mid HR zone 2.

Excuse the expletives, but how f**king hard is that? Was trundling along at not much more than 15k/hr on a relatively flat course and the alarm on the Garmin keeps telling me im going too hard!

Got 18km for the 60 min ride. Average speed so far this year has always been around 28-30k/hr, even on fairly hilly longer routes.

Should i expect such a drop in speed over the winter when following a program or is this excessive?

At the moment i cannot see how such slow rides are going to help be faster next season.

The only thing i can think of is heart rate zones are not set up properly. Although i have checked my max HR etc.

Any help or experiences would be much appreciated.

jgsi

Personally I couldnt ride at zone 2 for any length of time, except for warm up and down.
It is just too low.... purposefully low.
I can see benefit if you have absolutely no base whatsoever.


Like all generic programs , they benefit from adjustment to end goal - timescale.

amaferanga

How have you worked out your max HR and what percentage of your max is this Zone 2?

wasabi_m

Max from hill reps. Zone 2 is 60-70%.

amaferanga

Isn't that more like a recovery ride then?

guity

Zone 2 is recovery level but also good for this time of year apparrently. I have just started this for the first time too and it took a couple of rides to get used to it. It does feel stupidly slow at times (especially into a headwind!) but there must bbe some benifit from doing it otherwise it wouldnt be such a common suggestion!

lochindaal

I would suggest trying to find an explanation for what you are trying to achieve.

I got lab tested a few months ago and I'm doing training rides in Zone 1 (3-4 hrs 65-75% MHR) once a week and Zone 2 (1-2 hrs 75-83% MHR) twice a week.

The Zone 1 as you have found out is very slow but (for me) is to improve fat burning efficiency. mentally it is very difficult as you have to maintain a pace when everyone is passing you. I also do this with no energy products so I normally have sore legs when I've finished but it's not physically demanding.

The Zone 2 rides are focusing on maintaining a level HR. When I did previous rides my HR was up and down all the time. This ride is to try and flatten that out and not waste energy unnecessarily.

I am also training for long sportives not racing so each individual program could be different.

Jeff Jones

Go harder then

I also drop a bit of speed in the winter because of the temperature + lower tyre pressures + extra kit. Not 10km/h, more like 1-2km/h.

Bronzie

wasabi_m wrote:

Zone 2 is 60-70%.

Different coaches / training programmes use different interpretations of HR training zones.

I use the British Cycling zones which I've found tie in quite well with feedback from a power meter. Zone 2 with this scheme is 65-75% of max and my L2 rides tend have an average HR toward the upper end of this.

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/b ... c_bcf.html

Jeff Jones

Bronzie wrote:

wasabi_m wrote:

Zone 2 is 60-70%.

Different coaches / training programmes use different interpretations of HR training zones.

I use the British Cycling zones which I've found tie in quite well with feedback from a power meter. Zone 2 with this scheme is 65-75% of max and my L2 rides tend have an average HR toward the upper end of this.

http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/b ... c_bcf.html

Same here. I'm using Ric Stern zones and zone 2 works out at about 75-80% of maxHR, although it is actually a power-based zone.

I do some zone 2 rides in winter but I guess if I was starting out after a 3 week break I'd take it steadier in the first week before ramping up a bit.

walsht1105

Can someone clear up this zone 2 / level 2 Heart Rate thing for me.

Do you have to stick to this zone constantly or is it the overall average at the end of a ride?

My max HR is around 194 and over 60-80 miles riding I don't think I have had a Avg HR over 141bpm. But on most Saturday runs (where I do about 50-60miles in the group at 18-20mph and then an extra 20miles on my own) I normally have an avg HR of 125-135. The highest I have ever had my HR over a long period of time was a 20mile training ride, which is (hilly) more up than down, and my HR was AVG 161bpm.

160bpm on the flat is when I feel my legs tighten up - not sure if it is lactic acid because it feels more like pain than it does a burn. But I have climbed at 180bpm for 20minutes no problem.

So does this mean my saturday rides are L2 / Zone 2 training or does it just mean I haven't got the stamina you guys have got to push a hard gear on the flat and get my HR up?

Basically, I read alot that people say training in L2 / Zone 2 is ridiculously slow but my problem is that for a 60-80mile ride I can barely get out of or even in to zone 2.

KillerMetre

I find my 2-3 hour Z2 rides (based on 81-89% of my LTHR) a pretty solid workout.

Am I missing something?

SBezza

As mentioned above different coaches use different zone identification.

My L2 is tempo, others L2 is endurance.

ut_och_cykla

Goo back to the source of the programme you're following. As others have said Zone 2 can be different things to different people. And think about your aims.
I'm on a personalised programme which is based on staying under 80% Max HR for most of the time (some sessions have included eyeballs out stuff but not much) Although it was very slow to start with I have got quicker and lost weight (despite no change in eating habits). If you're building to 10 hours a week most of your riding will be at or around this level with some more focussed stuff later on. your level 2 sounds a good starting point to me!

wasabi_m

Thanks for all the feedback guys, some good stuff.

So we all agree that zones vary program to program. Based on what you are all saying, im starting to think that 60-70% is perhaps to low. Even for longer endurance base rides.

Loosing 10k/hr on average speed definitely seems like far too much.

What zones would you recommend based on HR. Do not own a power meter.

Cheers...

SBezza

Well below 65% is a recovery ride for me, so I would say 60 to 70% is a bit low, try and stick between 70 and 75% for longer rides, shorter rides stick to the higher end of this, or possibly do them at a higher level, perhaps lowish tempo.

I wouldn't worry about going over this for a few minutes, it is the average of the session that is important. Don't hammer up the hills and just coast down the other side

lochindaal

Do you have to stick to this zone constantly or is it the overall average at the end of a ride?

You have to stick to the zone constantly. Having started using my HR meter now with the upper and lower alarms turned on I realised how erratic my riding was before. My zone 2 training is designed to "flat line" my HR and make me more effecient.

It is very difficult to do on a group ride but now getting better.

It is probably fairly typical to get your HR averaged in this Zone 2 area if you are doing a normal ride but you could have spent 50% of your time above it and 50% below it and never been in it.

Again though it will come back to what you are training for individually.

Alex_Simmons/RST

wasabi_m wrote:

Max from hill reps. Zone 2 is 60-70%.

That's a recovery ride, not training.

It might be OK for a short while if you've had a long lay off from riding and need to get used to the bike again, but from a training perspective, it's not all that productive.

Jeff listed our training levels.

Alex_Simmons/RST

lochindaal wrote:

Do you have to stick to this zone constantly or is it the overall average at the end of a ride?

You have to stick to the zone constantly.

Completely disagree.

For a start it is impractical to attempt to do so.

Secondly it is neither necessary or for that matter all that important to religiously become a "zone drone". What matters is that you perform the overall ride and any set efforts along the way in and around the right levels.

Yes there are some days you are best not to go super hard at times, but on a general endurance level ride, going up the hills at Level 4 (threshold/TT level) is fine if you feel like it.

kettrinboy

lochindaal wrote:
Quote:
Do you have to stick to this zone constantly or is it the overall average at the end of a ride?





You have to stick to the zone constantly.

i dont see how you could do this unless you rode in an area that was pan flat and with no wind, on say a 10% hill of any length theres not many that could stay in zone 2, me i,d be in zone 4-5 in this circumstance, even if i could do it i think i,d find a ride where i never went above zone 2 pretty dull.