The precarious world of 4th catdom

ozzzyosborn206

i have done very few races in the UK and only one 3/4 cat race so can only go by what people are saying, but why shouldn't people sprint for every position? if you can go home that night and tell your parents/children whatever you came 10th instead of 20th then who should say because your not going to win you can't sprint at the end.

I spent a few months this year racing kermesses in Belgium and they give prize money up to 30th in every race sometimes up to 50th so generally if you finish, you sprint for your placing, they are on what many people would call 'boring pan flat courses' but the style of racing there makes them much more fun and interesting than any race i have done in the UK where everyone tries to sit in. Yes they have crashes i saw some pretty bad ones but they were just one rider falling off on his own. Maybe the problem is the points system meaning you have to get a certain cat to do different races so it makes more sense to sit in and wait for the finish, how about adding in more primes as this would split the race up and bit more.

I could be talking a load of rubbish as i said i have never raced in or seen a race at Hog HIll or Hillingdon

davetrave

All the talk of witholding licences until a rider reaches a certain level of competence has ignored one fact so far - currenlty a BC licence covers several disicplines, not just road, so are all the advocates of changing the licensing rules also proposing that you get separate licences for separate disciplines...?

I hold a racing licence, mainly for MTB and Cross, where I'm experienced enough to know what I'm doing, but I also like to do the odd road race to mix things up a bit, where I would describe myself as less experienced. Would my experience as an MTB and CX racer therefore count towards my ability to ride well in a road race and therefore allow me to hold a licence even though I've only done a handful of races? (This is a bit of a rhetorical question really but the point stands that everybody is forgetting that a BC race licence doesn't just cover road racing!)

maryka

davetrave wrote:

All the talk of witholding licences until a rider reaches a certain level of competence has ignored one fact so far - currenlty a BC licence covers several disicplines, not just road, so are all the advocates of changing the licensing rules also proposing that you get separate licences for separate disciplines...?

I hold a racing licence, mainly for MTB and Cross, where I'm experienced enough to know what I'm doing, but I also like to do the odd road race to mix things up a bit, where I would describe myself as less experienced. Would my experience as an MTB and CX racer therefore count towards my ability to ride well in a road race and therefore allow me to hold a licence even though I've only done a handful of races? (This is a bit of a rhetorical question really but the point stands that everybody is forgetting that a BC race licence doesn't just cover road racing!)

Nobody's really talking about witholding licenses per se, it's about upgrading from 4th cat (beginner level) to 3rd cat (more experienced level).

My license lists me as 1W for road/track, and various other beginner levels for MTB and other disciplines. I wouldn't expect to show up and race Elite category in MTB based on being cat 1 on the road. The license may be the same piece of paper but it is effectively several licenses, one for each discipline.

Since you asked, I would not say your experience as a MTB and cross rider prepares you for road racing, no. You should start as cat 4 like everyone else does til you gain enough points/experience to move up to 3rd.

proto

Just to throw a Spaniard in the works, incident free 4th cat race at Hillingdon yesterday, but sadly there was a pile up on the last lap of the 3rds only event.

Make the 3rds race points free?

Withold licences until they've done 20 races?

fish156

proto wrote:

Just to throw a Spaniard in the works, incident free 4th cat race at Hillingdon yesterday, but sadly there was a pile up on the last lap of the 3rds only event.

Another way of looking at this is that it helps back up the point. The issue has been described as inexperienced 4th cats being promoted to higher categories without neccessarily having the racing skills.

dulldave

fish156 wrote:

proto wrote:

Just to throw a Spaniard in the works, incident free 4th cat race at Hillingdon yesterday, but sadly there was a pile up on the last lap of the 3rds only event.

Another way of looking at this is that it helps back up the point. The issue has been described as inexperienced 4th cats being promoted to higher categories without neccessarily having the racing skills.

I still don't see this argument. If Cat 4 races are where all the crashes happen then what is the point of making the strong riders stay there longer than they need to. Surely they'll learn more as a new Cat 3 where more experienced riders will quickly tell them what they're doing wrong.

A Cat 4 who has all strength and no bunch riding experience will feel he's one of the better riders in the bunch and isn't likely to listen to anyone who tells him he's riding like a nutter.

However in a race with Elite riders, Cat 1,2 and 3s he'll quickly be told what he's doing wrong. As he is no longer one of the stronger riders, he's also more likely to listen.

So keeping him in the Cat 4 races is likely to slow his progression both in terms of experience and athleticism.

My experience of Cat 4 racing in Scotland is

- Tactically not a great deal happens. Everyone seems to chase down every break.
- The neutralized zone is often the most dangerous part of the race. Which leads me to wonder what the point of it is.
- A lot of the advice you get is in the form of a shouted insult and often it's the person dishing this out that did something wrong and not you (but not always).
- Many of the stronger riders often ride at the front all day so are unlikely to learn the things that'll help them as a Cat 3.

So it's not actually the best place to learn the ropes.