Do the police care about cyclists?

W1

Something on-topic.

I don't think that the police particularly care about cyclists, but I doubt they actively avoid caring either. I bet they get a fair few mentalists cyclists ranting and raving at them all the time with their videos of their beards and sandals. There are a few of thse chaps on you-tube and they do seem to get into an astonishing amount of bother compared to me on my commute. The problem is that the criminal burden of proof is high - and often (not always of course) the "evidence" is one person's story, and that person gets offended when their version isn't sufficient to secure a conviction. But the police get lied to all the time by everyone - I suppose that their natural reaction is to disbelieve. Add to that a lack of time and resources and it's no surprise (but still regrettable) that cycling issues aren't better attended to.

My dealings with the police (as a cyclist) have been limited to two bike thefts. In the first I had to get the CCTV myself and the police weren't interested. In the second whilst hunting for my stolen bike I came accross a plod car who deliberately ignored me when I tried to speak to them! So that's not great.

However I've had a few other minor dealings with the police in my time, and all have been fine to be honest. I think it's easy to judge and hard to understand the view of the copper.

W1

Waddlie wrote:

More circumstantial evidence, your honour. E_B gets abuse in Woolwich, Welling and Bexleyheath.

Where does Porgy live? Welling.

E_B is also fond of mentioning David Bowie on BR, another of Porgy's faves.

Oh, and Johnny Cash.

...and Elvis Costello...

So. Union-sympathising, police-hating railway workers with identical music taste, and a particular unfondness for Greg66. Hmmm.

Where's my pitchfork?

Edit - I've just noticed what terrible, awful artists that selection are. Real speaker vomit.

itboffin

Does he also ride a hybrid ?? - check!

hold on I think we have a spare wickerman somewhere.

tailwindhome

Do keep up people

waddlie

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

tailwindhome

Waddlie wrote:

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

Thanks

Thanks a million.

W1

TailWindHome wrote:

Waddlie wrote:

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

Thanks

Thanks a million.

You can't be a commie too, surely?

It's bad enough that it's only the Gregs and me on the slightly fascist side. Suppose it's something to do with all these hippies on bicycles.

langster

I know I am going to get some stick for this but what the heck. I have been living in this country for 15 years now and it seems that the majority of people have the same attitude when it comes to doing thier job, everyone seems to think it is someone elses problem to deal with and act as if they are the only ones doing anything. There are exceptions of course but it seems to be a common denominator that people think they are worth more than they actually are. It is called work cause you are supposed to earn your pay.

SamWise72

What's that thing that people say about trolls?

tailwindhome

W1 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Waddlie wrote:

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

Thanks

Thanks a million.

You can't be a commie too, surely?

It's bad enough that it's only the Gregs and me on the slightly fascist side. Suppose it's something to do with all these hippies on bicycles.

I'm neither a commie nor a facist.

I just help them out when they're busy.*









* can't remember who I'm paraphasing here

notsoblue

W1 wrote:

I've just noticed what terrible, awful artists that selection are. Real speaker vomit.

Lol, I'm so using that...

rjsterry

TailWindHome wrote:

Do keep up people

Indeed, I thought it was obvious from the moment E_B started posting. So much for the carefully constructed on-line persona

rjsterry

W1 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Waddlie wrote:

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

Thanks

Thanks a million.

You can't be a commie too, surely?

It's bad enough that it's only the Gregs and me on the slightly fascist side. Suppose it's something to do with all these hippies on bicycles.

You need a few of us lefties on here W1. Otherwise, who would you argue with?

W1

rjsterry wrote:

W1 wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Waddlie wrote:

Oddly enough, TWH, I used to get you and he mixed up. I think it was ditching the wheezing and chubbiness that confused me.

Thanks

Thanks a million.

You can't be a commie too, surely?

It's bad enough that it's only the Gregs and me on the slightly fascist side. Suppose it's something to do with all these hippies on bicycles.

You need a few of us lefties on here W1. Otherwise, who would you argue with?

Indeed. It would be awfully dull if we all just agreed.

There is still something seemingly lefty about cyclists as a group though. Or maybe I just spend too much time with fascists who tend not to cycle?

citycyclecop

As a cycle commuter and a Police Sergeant in charge of the City Police cycle team I though I would post here. It is sad when I hear stories of bad experiences with the Police and the cycling community. The City of London Police work hard to ensure positive road behaviour from all road users, and as a passionate cyclist I see the world as a commuter and a Police officer when out patroling the square mile. I have set up citycyclecop on Twitter where I post up the work we do on behalf of the cycle community - education as well as enforcement of the advance stop boxes. The roadshows we do where we offer security advice, the operations we run tackling cycle thefts. Please follow me and I can do what I can to help change your minds that the Police do not care about cyclists. Thanks, Citycyclecop

W1

citycyclecop wrote:

As a cycle commuter and a Police Sergeant in charge of the City Police cycle team I though I would post here. It is sad when I hear stories of bad experiences with the Police and the cycling community. The City of London Police work hard to ensure positive road behaviour from all road users, and as a passionate cyclist I see the world as a commuter and a Police officer when out patroling the square mile. I have set up citycyclecop on Twitter where I post up the work we do on behalf of the cycle community - education as well as enforcement of the advance stop boxes. The roadshows we do where we offer security advice, the operations we run tackling cycle thefts. Please follow me and I can do what I can to help change your minds that the Police do not care about cyclists. Thanks, Citycyclecop

Welcome. Please stick around - your views may assist in enlightening a few regulars on here (myself very much included!)

OldSkoolKona

citycyclecop wrote:

As a cycle commuter and a Police Sergeant in charge of the City Police cycle team I though I would post here. It is sad when I hear stories of bad experiences with the Police and the cycling community. The City of London Police work hard to ensure positive road behaviour from all road users, and as a passionate cyclist I see the world as a commuter and a Police officer when out patroling the square mile. I have set up citycyclecop on Twitter where I post up the work we do on behalf of the cycle community - education as well as enforcement of the advance stop boxes. The roadshows we do where we offer security advice, the operations we run tackling cycle thefts. Please follow me and I can do what I can to help change your minds that the Police do not care about cyclists. Thanks, Citycyclecop

Welcome on board. I follow you on twitter and really enjoy your posts. My wife cycles through the city every day on her Brompton (easily recognisable as the only purple Brompton trying to scalp every roadie she comes across) so we've a vested interest in what you do. A few more enlightend cops like yourself, and hopefully the experiences of the original post will become less.

greg66_tri_v2.0

citycyclecop wrote:

As a cycle commuter and a Police Sergeant in charge of the City Police cycle team I though I would post here. It is sad when I hear stories of bad experiences with the Police and the cycling community. The City of London Police work hard to ensure positive road behaviour from all road users, and as a passionate cyclist I see the world as a commuter and a Police officer when out patroling the square mile. I have set up citycyclecop on Twitter where I post up the work we do on behalf of the cycle community - education as well as enforcement of the advance stop boxes. The roadshows we do where we offer security advice, the operations we run tackling cycle thefts. Please follow me and I can do what I can to help change your minds that the Police do not care about cyclists. Thanks, Citycyclecop

RUN!

IT'S THE FUZZ!!!

mybreakfastconsisted

After Sebastien Lukowmski was killed by a lorry near my office, I went on a Critical Mass with some leaflets explaining what happened and why we were protesting.

A black cabbie called a policeman on a bike over and said "Why are they allowed to delay me?"

"They're allowed to protest sir" the policeman said.

I went over with a leaflet to give the cabbie a leaflet.

"Nah, I don't want that" the cabbie said.

"It explains what we're doing" I said.

"Nah, eff off" the cabbie said.

"Don't worry mate" the copper said as he led me away.

"Some people are just tossers"

electric_blue

Think I'll check this Porgy guy out - he sounds like quite a dude - and lives near me by the sounds of it. 8)

greg66_tri_v2.0

electric_blue wrote:

Think I'll check this Porgy guy out - he sounds like quite a dude - and lives near me by the sounds of it. 8)

Be sure to say "Hi" from me! :twisted:

W1

electric_blue wrote:

Think I'll check this Porgy guy out - he sounds like quite a dude - and lives near me by the sounds of it. 8)

Shouldn't be too hard - any reflective surface will do.

OldSkoolKona

Latest on the progress on the threat to kill incident:

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.com/2010 ... brace.html

Warning, involves legal chat!

Also covered here:
http://road.cc/content/news/27275-cycli ... ay-met-cps

el_presidente

Unbelievable really, some poor sod gets sent down for making bad jokes on Twitter and this idiot in charge of a lethal weapon is free to roam the streets at will.

OldSkoolKona

Seems that it's pretty difficult for anything cycling related to be taken seriously by police or CPS


http://www.kingstonpeople.co.uk/news/Up ... story.html

Unless of course you go through a red light :roll:

spen666

OldSkoolKona wrote:

Seems that it's pretty difficult for anything cycling related to be taken seriously by police or CPS


http://www.kingstonpeople.co.uk/news/Up ... story.html

Unless of course you go through a red light :roll:

The CPS can only prosecute where there is sufficient evidence to justify the belief that there is a REALISTIC prospect of a conviction.

In the case you link to, there is no realistic prospect of a conviction. The CCTV evidence is woefully inadequate to identify the thief.

Prosecutions need admissible evidence.

Jay dubbleU

Half the problem hear seems to be the blinkered approach taken by the CPS

spen666

Jay dubbleU wrote:

Half the problem hear seems to be the blinkered approach taken by the CPS

what blinkered approach?


CPS can only work on the evidence givento them by the police.

mybreakfastconsisted

Jay dubbleU wrote:

Half the problem hear seems to be the blinkered approach taken by the CPS

Yep.

Including accepting the excuse "I didn't see the cyclist!"

http://www.readingcyclingclub.com/node/373

Why we are here today: Anthony Maynard, killed at Bix, 2008.

We are members of Reading Cycling Club, gathered here this afternoon in a quiet protest or short vigil in memory of our fellow cyclist Anthony Maynard, who was killed by a van driver exactly a year ago on the A4130 north of Henley.

We make our protest at the Thames Valley offices of the Crown Prosecution Service, whose officers last year inappropriately, remissly, and to our minds unforgivably decided that the van driver who struck Anthony (and his companion) from behind would not face charges. We did not, and do not hold Anthony’s life so cheap.

Our protest is on behalf of all cyclists. Almost uniquely in Europe, motorists involved in fatal accidents do not, in the UK, even in the face of the prime evidence against them of a dead body, have to prove their innocence. Here in this country, the C.P.S. decides whether charges can successfully be brought against the motorist, and can decide to drop a case entirely. In this instance, the van driver’s excuse that he simply didn't see the cyclists was accepted by the C.P.S. as an adequate accounting for the death of a highly principled and well-loved citizen in the prime of his life.

In a time when the nation as a whole is encouraged to exercise, and use forms of transport other than the car, cyclists need to feel that they have the full and equal protection of the law when on the public roads, and not a law apparently interpreted (or simply set aside) to the maximum advantage of the driver, no matter how culpably careless. The C.P.S. was in dereliction of its duty last year. We fervently hope that it will adopt a different perspective. Allowing drivers to kill with complete impunity just will not do, and does not meet the nation’s needs and priorities.

We append a quotation from Christopher G. Thompson, ‘District Crown Prosecutor, Oxford Rural’, in a letter sent by him to one of the Reading CC committee who had written deploring this failure to prosecute (dated 16 March 2009): “the fact that no prosecution has followed in this case does not in any way mean or suggest that drivers may drive carelessly around cyclists or that cyclists will not be afforded the protection of the law where appropriate.”

In what must have been a considered letter, that phrasing about ‘affording’ cyclists “the protection of the law where appropriate” is chilling: NO, Mr Thompson, NO! The protection of the law. Full stop.


More in The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/b ... -penalties




Does the law treat killing a cyclist seriously enough?

Blame is hard to prove, but campaigners argue trifling penalties gives little incentive for drivers to change their behaviour

*

Is a £200 fine and three points on your licence an appropriate punishment for killing a cyclist on the road? According to Kingston magistrates' court, where last month Joao Lopes pleaded guilty to "driving while eyesight was such that you could not comply with the requirements of a prescribed eye test", it is.

Lopes was driving his 32-tonne tipper truck, without wearing glasses, on 5 February 2009 when he ran over Eilidh Cairns, a 30-year-old TV producer cycling to work in front of him.

You could argue that the knowledge he has ended a life is enough of a punishment for Lopes, but what about his employer? They haven't even lost their driver to a ban, let alone endured investigation or possible punishment for failing to ensure their staff are safe on the roads.

A lack of witnesses meant that Lopes could not be prosecuted for dangerous driving. This is a common problem in cycling fatalities where things go wrong so quickly. It is rare that passers-by see and can clearly recount the whole incident.

Campaigners argue that it's not about punishing individuals, but about forcing the industry to take cyclists' deaths seriously. Amy Aeron-Thomas, executive director of road safety charity RoadPeace, says:

Killing someone on the road needs to be more costly. The freight industry will invest in safety if it's protecting their employees or their vehicles. The problem with cyclists is that their deaths aren't costly.

Without stiffer penalties a company has little incentive to bring in procedures, equipment and training that could prevent future deaths. Cynthia Barlow, whose daughter Alex was killed as she cycled to work in 2000, says that the lorry drivers companies need to be held more culpable:

I think there should be more prosecutions for corporate manslaughter, just to get across to the lorry companies what they are responsible for. They are responsible for people's lives. They need to take it seriously.

mybreakfastconsisted

el_presidente wrote:

Unbelievable really, some poor sod gets sent down for making bad jokes on Twitter and this idiot in charge of a lethal weapon is free to roam the streets at will.

I'm not sure about The Cycling Silk's post.

Yes, a twatty yob leaning out of a car and smirking "I will kill you" is unpleasant, but I can understand the cops' reluctance to treat it as a serious threat to kill. It's like the scene from 12 Angry Men.

They should at least have a word with the driver but I think that's the best you could expect, unless the vehicle was actually used as a weapon.