Ground anchor project with pragmasis 16mm

capoz77

Some of you may remember me from titles such as

"transit disk brake under ya shed, feed through crap 11mm chain and chuck on a bucket of concrete"

It was never tested out, but I have no doubt it wouldn't have held out for long under attack - for my new shed I thought i'd try and ensure there wasn't any weak points.

Ordered the Pragmasis 16mm chain and untouchable padlock. Arrived next day - impressive! heres a pic for scale >>>




This shed has heavy flags underneath, so no transit disk break and fed through chain this time. Marking the cutting site, whilst trying to ensure I didn't get the gap in the flags




Drilling the boreholes for anchor




fitted wood around three sides of the floor cut out and nailed in - to strengthen/support floor and contain concrete.




Testing out the fit




As you tighten the screws they pull a triangular base further into the thread expanding it, locking solid. Hammered bearings hammered into the allen holes.




This would probably be enough but I wanted to remove all access to the anchor. Concreted to shed floor level,




Then raised a bit higher with wood to completely encase the anchor, used a nail in shed wall and zipties to ensure base of chain points skyward




After a brush up,

capoz77

The untouchable lock, bolts through a chain link and doesn't have many attack points




quite a snug fit around the BB, doesn't leave any on the floor, and at the back under two bikes.




Don't know how good these revolver locks are, anyone any experience? using two to bolt boths bikes together. May even get a third and go through both back wheels too.

May add the missus halfrauds piece of junk to the loops, would x3 bikes together be more secure?

Any other locks which would be better to lock the bikes to each other?

stumpyjon

Just hope they don't burn the shed down in frustration :shock:

capoz77

updated, with in situ pics.

Feedback please so I can improve

getonyourbike

I agree, I hope they don't resort to burning the shed down. :shock:

hammy7272

Excellent job, nice one

Northwind

A decent u-lock would be better to put the bikes together (assuming another monstro-chain is out of the question). But that to me looks like some pretty secure bikes- someone could still have the components but even that'll be more of a pain than usual with the access. Nice work.

Are those Oxford Revolvers? By reputation they're not bad, for cable locks- the armouring's semi-decent even though the cable's useless. A pro'll go through them like butter if they've got the tools but they'll stop or slow people with poor tools. Not for serious security.

capoz77

Anyone could get their shed burnt down to be fair

Do thieves really stoop this low out of frustration if they can't get away with anything?

The silver lock is an Oxford revolver, over 12 years old and still going well, the black is a decathlon version which looks identical, even the key is exactly the same - i'm guessing Oxford make for BT-win.

I wish I could afford the 1meter version of this pacakage to finish it off >>>

http://www.torc-anchors.com/proddetail. ... 0CS&cat=14


I may go for this more in my budget,

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/squire-l ... 96941.html



Also contemplating some kind of alarm, deciding on PIR vs door contact, battery powered with loud DB rating :shock:

Northwind

capoz77 wrote:

i'm guessing Oxford make for BT-win. :

More likely they both rebrand from the same cheap far eastern factory. Oxford are a pretty rotten company... But still, should be suitable for your needs, wouldn't use them as a sole lock for the Heckler though. Only thing, do they have round or flat keys? You've obviously done your research so I'm guessing you know about the round key crack but just in case...

capoz77

Hey northwind, i read the round stories but thought it was a mass scaremongering

The oxford is a flat key, the decathlon round :oops:

tsenior

OP

you did well to recess and cover that master anchor, that was the weak link when i got robbed!

if you lever up the anchor a few mm (easy with a decent bar) get some mole grips or similar on the head it just unscrews: zero point hammering in the bb. any bolt from now on gets epoxy on the threads!

nicklouse

Sorry piece of piss to take



only need to cut through 1 tube and they are all gone.

CraigXXL

I'd hate to disappoint you but concrete will break with a point chisel quite easily as will the flags underneath so the bikes can be carried away and chains removed off site.
The hinges on the doors are weak even though you've used coach bolts to secure them. A large screwdriver will bend the pins at the hinge until they fail.
I might suggest that you line the inside of the shed with plywood, filling the void with insulation will kep it warmer in the winter too. Ply line the door too to give more strength and replace the hinges with something stronger and heavier. Also fit a shed alarm, the louder the better.

tsenior

yer, tie the wheels to a lawnmower.

i'm gonna post my build just so nik can pick out the weak links: he used to rob bikes i reckon.



edit: " filling the void with insulation will kep it warmer in the winter too" cxxl has a very valid point though: once in the lads can work away in comfort to free the bikes, then cart em off and work on the locks at their leisure. better to stop em getting in in the 1st place if you can

Northwind

Can you stretch the chain round the swingarm as well? Nick's right, if someone's willing to chop the frame they'll have it but tbh there's no way round that. But you can at least make them do more work, and it'll still stop people who want the whole bike.

CraigXXL wrote:

I'd hate to disappoint you but concrete will break with a point chisel quite easily as will the flags underneath so the bikes can be carried away and chains removed off site.

But that'll be hard to do with bikes chained on top of it. It'd be very easy to do with no bikes there, but, well.

CraigXXL

Let the bikes lay to the right so you can reach the concrete with the chisel a couple of strikes later the concrete will split as will the flag underneath with another strike and you can lift the bikes out complete with chains, bracket and raw bolts so they can take it back to their evil hideout and attack the chain with power tools or sledge hammers.

pilsburypie

Seems like you have made a crooks life difficult. What do others suggest bar bringing the bike to bed?

nicklouse

lock things up correctly.

the two other locks are also very easy to cut.

Northwind

Hmm actually I have to admit you're right, I hadn't thought of that. Course, they won't know what it's actually bolted to unless they've read the thread. Metal plate over the top'd stop that I guess if it's a concern.

pilsburypie

nicklouse wrote:

lock things up correctly.

the two other locks are also very easy to cut.

What is correctly?

capoz77

This is the kind of feedback i need

i want to make it as difficult as possible without breaking the bang for buck factor. I understand if they want it they'll get it regardless or saw the frame.

Im going to link the third bike and the lawnmower.

Like the idea of lining shed too

allen.coulson

I did a similar thing the other week using a Kryptonite ground thing and a 19mm chain and upped the shed door to a 5 lever lock. My main aim was to comply with the insurance companies standard at least which demands Sold secure gold standard for lock and chain, permanent groundspike / or a 5 lever door lock. Having done that my bike would be prety secure. I could make my bike pretty secure without adopting those standards but the point being that I would not get an insurance recovery. Someone mentioned an old Oxford lock and I wonder if that is compliant for insurance purposes.

Don't forget to keep receipts for the lock, chains and components.

Doombrain

where do you live???

El Capitano

pilsburypie wrote:

What do others suggest bar bringing the bike to bed?

My road bike lives in the bedroom...

capoz77

Doombrain wrote:

where do you live???

quite an ok area but even the safest areas get bike crime.


For the people who keep bike in bedroom where do you put it when you go to work?

Pragma

Hi,

This is Steve from Pragmasis, the manufacturer of the Protector chains, etc.

capoz77 wrote:

This is the kind of feedback i need

i want to make it as difficult as possible without breaking the bang for buck factor. I understand if they want it they'll get it regardless or saw the frame.

Im going to link the third bike and the lawnmower.

Like the idea of lining shed too

I'd say this is a pretty good setup if you have a shed sitting on slabs and can't afford or don't want to dig them up and put down a proper area of concrete. I'd agree with other comments that the concrete on top of the shaped surface of the Master anchor is vulnerable to being hammered, as the sloped edges of the anchor combined with the thin-ness of the concrete above, will make it easier for someone to crack it. The slabs are also easy to break. However, unless a thief in your area reads this thread, they won't know what's underneath the concrete and it just looks like you've concreted the chain itself into the floor. That impression is likely to be enough to put off all but the most determined thieves IMHO, _especially_ if the bikes are positioned in the way. Be wary if the slabs are visible outside the shed, though, as that could give the game away. If they can move the bikes out of the way to swing a hammer, they may just try their luck. Even if they don't succeed, they might clout a bike with the back-swing and that still gives you a bad day.

If you can add another bike and the lawnmower as well, go for it. However, don't ignore your own ease-of-use. It's natural to come up with a really awkward setup for the thief, but if it's also so awkward for you that you stop doing it after 2 weeks, it's not a good solution. Much better, IMHO, to have something perhaps a little lower in terms of absolute security, that you use _every_ time, than having Fort Knox stuff lying on the floor.

Do bear in mind that wheels can be removed, bikes can be pushed over, and thieves can be surprisingly crude in their attempts to steal things. We know because we've had people trying it with our stuff (my wife and I own a conservation site with a largely unattended building and the thieves think they're in the middle of nowhere with all the time in the world - www.alvecotewood.co.uk). They don't realise until afterwards that everything is well protected as we are dead lucky with what we do for our day job We've even developed several new products as a result of that site being a test bed. Remote monitoring there certainly helps us to sleep at night ...but wakes us up when it needs to

Anyway, the point is that just because a normal person wouldn't think of sawing through the frame or wrecking one bike in order to steal another, it doesn't mean that thieves would hesitate if it means they are more likely to get away with something without getting caught. They might even damage the most expensive bike in order to steal one that's less valuable. Don't forget that very often thieves don't even know what they're stealing! It is galling for people to find out afterwards that a £5,000 bike got sold at a market for £50.

Yes, frames do get sawn through, although not very often. Many modern frames are so strong that you can still ride the bike, and the components are often worth over £1000. Looping the chain through more than one member, preferably through both wheels as well, is all good deterrent stuff. Avoid trying to be too clever as you can sometimes open up another opportunity for a thief - e.g. thinking you are going through two tubes but actually leaving a different, single, tube as another weak point. E.g. down tube plus chain stay might actually leave the seat tube as a single point fo weakness. Having said that, it is often not that easy to loop a big chain, especially a heavy chain, through multiple parts of a bike frame. Some spokes are also too close together.

If there has been a history of thefts in the area, or if it's a particularly hgh value bike or several bikes, that tends to encourage us to go up a level in the gauge of chain we'd recommend. Another good strategy is to use multiple, different approaches. E.g. a chain and lock and an independent D-lock, being careful to avoid the old locks that had the notorious (but genuine) BIC biro problem...

Cable locks, including most of the armoured ones, are almost useless in our opinion. We generally only use a cable lock as secondary security, e.g. when there is already an alarm that's gone off and there is also a decent chain and lock in place, or when the item is really low value and even then still as secondary security. If someone breaks into your shed and sets off an alarm, a cable lock can dissuade them from nicking your strimmer or perhaps old wheels as they run away.

I hope that helps, and feel free to ask us for advice,

Steve.

Pragma

Hi again,

capoz77 wrote:

Anyone could get their shed burnt down to be fair

Do thieves really stoop this low out of frustration if they can't get away with anything?

Thieves have generally got other things in mind that just trashing something just of spite. Why risk getting caught or getting done for criminal damage if there is nothing to be taken? It does happen, but I'd say it's very unusual. The majority of the time they are moving on to another target, hoping they will get lucky.

capoz77 wrote:

I wish I could afford the 1meter version of this pacakage to finish it off >>>

http://www.torc-anchors.com/proddetail. ... 0CS&cat=14

I may go for this more in my budget,

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/squire-l ... 96941.html

I don't know why you'd be thinking about the Squire G3 chain, which is just 10mm short link, when it's actually more expensive than our Protector 11mm, which is made (as far as we know) from superior material with a superior spec. (We have inside knowledge on this as we used to use the same supplier as Squire when we were doing a 10mm short link. Our 10mm was a different spec to theirs at that time and they may have changed since for all we know.) We moved on to the Protector 11mm long link because it is higher grade boron steel with our (better) heat treatment so it is stronger, tougher to bolt-crop, and yet lighter in weight. We can do the ML2L disc lock as well but would say the SS50CS is a superior lock if you're just locking the chain together.

capoz77 wrote:

Also contemplating some kind of alarm, deciding on PIR vs door contact, battery powered with loud DB rating :shock:

Even cheap shed alarms can be useful, providing they can't be just dunked in a bucket of water, so try to bolt them down if you can. Don't rely on them, though. I'd say PIR is preferable, but they are much more likely to suffer false alarms from spiders etc, especially in a shed. PIR alarms also eat batteries faster, in general. They do give protection if someone kicks in the wall of the shed, though.

One of the best alarms, indeed best forms of security, is a big dog

Hope that helps,

Steve.

capoz77

Thanks for taking the time to post all the advice Steve

Re the squire chain I read it as "• 13mm dia. hardened boron steel shackle "

didn't realise the chain was in fact 10mm!

I may just try and wait till I can afford your 13mm with padlock and use it to chain x3 bikes together. I would like to see them carry three bikes from my shed, as its in rather an awkward location to get to the road! with quite a few "barriers" on the way

What length do you think would best secure x3 bikes together? 1m?

or 2m and go through more parts of the frames?

or go with one of the above with 11mm?

nicklouse

i would still lock 3 bikes separately. 3 locks/chains to defeat to get 3 bikes rather than 1 to beat to get 3.

I know what odds I would like.

Also as I always say IF they know about it and want it they WILL have it.

I know of a MC that was removed from an alarmed locked garage and was ground locked to the floor in front of a locked alarmed car.

the MC was basically lifted over the car and out of the garage door.

So whatever you do look to see that it complies with your current insurance.

capoz77

current insurance covers it just being in a locked shed

i'd rather keep my no claims bonus though

bluechair84

It's a shame you've bearinged the allen bolts as you could have put a square sheet of metal beneath the clasp, stopping thieves from chiselling the concrete.

Besides, they are going to make a lot of noise taking the clasp out which I doubt they'd risk.

pilsburypie wrote:

What is correctly?

+1
Does Nick mean chaining them up individually?