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Quick WKO+ question

mclarentmclarent Posts: 784
edited November 2010 in Training, fitness and health
Anyone know why the lap and total workout numbers are different in wko+ when you've only recorded one lap?
"And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale

Posts

  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Never had that issue!
  • mclarentmclarent Posts: 784
    From today:

    Lap 1:
    Duration: 2:52:02 (3:16:12)
    Work: 1858 kJ

    Entire workout (157 watts):
    Duration: 3:15:37 (3:58:51)
    Work: 2055 kJ

    Entire time could include stops for punctures (we had 2 today), but can't see why the work numbers would be different. I'm using a Garmin 705 with Auto Resume on - may try switching that off to see if it makes a difference...
    "And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
    - eccolafilosofiadelpedale
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Definitely switch Auto Resume off. Everything I've read has said never use auto stop/start on your Garmin when you're using a power meter.
    More problems but still living....
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Aaaah, you have auto stop/start on...

    Verrrry Bad.
  • bcssbcss Posts: 174
    amaferanga wrote:
    Definitely switch Auto Resume off. Everything I've read has said never use auto stop/start on your Garmin when you're using a power meter.

    why?
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    bcss wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    Definitely switch Auto Resume off. Everything I've read has said never use auto stop/start on your Garmin when you're using a power meter.

    why?

    Because there are no analysis tools that can handle random gaps. WKO particularly does a very bad job of it - it actually considers it completely irrelevant to the workout - ie you've cycled for an 70 minutes of which 10minutes was auto-paused away - you get an hour power calculated which was actually equivalent to 70minutes of actual physical effort.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • BronzieBronzie Posts: 4,927
    Think I'm right in saying that the old version of WKO+ correctly handles auto-paused gaps in the data, but the latest version interpolates the gap and you end up with power data when you were actually stood still.
  • jibberjimjibberjim Posts: 2,810
    Bronzie wrote:
    Think I'm right in saying that the old version of WKO+ correctly handles auto-paused gaps in the data, but the latest version interpolates the gap and you end up with power data when you were actually stood still.

    Not really the old one handles it badly too - in that it pretends that time didn't exist - so cycle for 63 minutes with 3 minutes stopped at traffic lights and you'll get given a peak 60minute power equivalent to what you did in 63 minutes. Making comparisons etc. tough. It also results in a different TSS depending on if you stop or not.

    Never stop recordining data on a ride.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    jibberjim wrote:
    Bronzie wrote:
    Think I'm right in saying that the old version of WKO+ correctly handles auto-paused gaps in the data, but the latest version interpolates the gap and you end up with power data when you were actually stood still.

    Not really the old one handles it badly too - in that it pretends that time didn't exist - so cycle for 63 minutes with 3 minutes stopped at traffic lights and you'll get given a peak 60minute power equivalent to what you did in 63 minutes. Making comparisons etc. tough. It also results in a different TSS depending on if you stop or not.

    Never stop recordining data on a ride.

    But it's a good way of getting your FTP graph up in WKO. Put auto stop on, ride balls out for 10 mins, stop to rest for 20, repeat x 6, hey presto, monster FTP!
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    I've noticed this too as I use auto start/stop on my Garmin. It's usually a couple of minutes/watts discrepancy in a given ride so it's not that important.

    I guess if I was doing a lot of training in the city I'd probably leave auto start/stop off.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • mclarentmclarent Posts: 784
    I've had it off for the last couple of days and it seems to have cured the problem. No inuendo intended...
    "And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
    - eccolafilosofiadelpedale
  • BronzieBronzie Posts: 4,927
    mclarent wrote:
    I've had it off for the last couple of days and it seems to have cured the problem. No inuendo intended...
    Just out of interest, are you using the latest version of WKO+ (version 3.0 I think) or an earlier version?
  • doyler78doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    I like the device agent in wko+ 3.0 as it allows me to set the gap time on a per download basis that way I can tune it to my recollection of gaps during my ride so that I set it low enough that it doesn't get affected by traffic lights but should hopefully still handle data drops better.

    I prefer the version 3 implementation to 2.2.

    Jibberjim are using GE? I hear it aparently isn't as prone to data drops as other devices, such as the Garmin. Is that your experience if you are using it?
  • mclarentmclarent Posts: 784
    I have a version 2.something install
    "And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
    - eccolafilosofiadelpedale
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    doyler78 wrote:
    I like the device agent in wko+ 3.0 as it allows me to set the gap time on a per download basis that way I can tune it to my recollection of gaps during my ride so that I set it low enough that it doesn't get affected by traffic lights but should hopefully still handle data drops better.
    How do you do this? From Device Agent or from WKO+ 3.0? There's a settings button on Device Agent but it's greyed out for the Garmin 705/605
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • doyler78doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    doyler78 wrote:
    I like the device agent in wko+ 3.0 as it allows me to set the gap time on a per download basis that way I can tune it to my recollection of gaps during my ride so that I set it low enough that it doesn't get affected by traffic lights but should hopefully still handle data drops better.
    How do you do this? From Device Agent or from WKO+ 3.0? There's a settings button on Device Agent but it's greyed out for the Garmin 705/605

    I'm using lyc - guess that's yet another reason not to go Garmin yet :lol:
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    doyler78 wrote:
    I'm using lyc - guess that's yet another reason not to go Garmin yet :lol:
    Doh, I was hoping you wouldn't say that.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    doyler78 wrote:
    I like the device agent in wko+ 3.0 as it allows me to set the gap time on a per download basis that way I can tune it to my recollection of gaps during my ride so that I set it low enough that it doesn't get affected by traffic lights but should hopefully still handle data drops better.

    doyler78 wrote:
    I'm using lyc - guess that's yet another reason not to go Garmin yet :lol:

    Are you saying that you have problems with data drop outs when using the LYC?
    More problems but still living....
  • doyler78doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    amaferanga wrote:
    doyler78 wrote:
    I like the device agent in wko+ 3.0 as it allows me to set the gap time on a per download basis that way I can tune it to my recollection of gaps during my ride so that I set it low enough that it doesn't get affected by traffic lights but should hopefully still handle data drops better.

    doyler78 wrote:
    I'm using lyc - guess that's yet another reason not to go Garmin yet :lol:

    Are you saying that you have problems with data drop outs when using the LYC?

    All wireless hubs suffer data loss - that's just wireless technology for you. Is it a big problem? No as most data drops are so small as to be inconsequential. I did have had one big data drop however the hub went t1ts up I think 2 weeks later so probably the hub on its way out. Now that's another story - 4 in 1.5 years. Not that impressed with their robustness. Over 3 months of lost data in total over that period.

    I have my files all split up all over the place for gaps because that's just the way I like to deal with my data. I know this would send some people absolutely mental but then I never seem to want to do things the way other people do :lol:
  • doyler78 wrote:
    All wireless hubs suffer data loss - that's just wireless technology for you.
    My wireless SRMs experience far fewer data drops than my wired SRM units.

    Actually, to be fair, all the power meters are wireless, just some have a very short transmission range requiring a pick up to be placed very close the power meter.
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