Random Question...

lost_in_thought

Brokers, kind of depends on the size of the building - you said 4 flats, but of approximately how many sqft? Some will do better deals on larger ones and some on smaller ones... is it a house that's been converted into 4 flats? Or a purpose-built block? Does it have parking or a basement? Do you own the leasehold (I'm presuming you do) or the freehold (presuming not)? Is it a whole building?

The answers to the above are kind of important for the differences!

But that aside, here are a few...

First and foremost - terror. You must have terror cover, and depending on the declared value* it can be written by underwriters directly or through the Lloyds pool. Only certain underwriters can write terror, Chubb being one.

*Declared Value: the cost of rebuilding the building - usually higher than the market value by around 15% - you'll need a 'reinstatement valuation' that's been indexed yearly (how far back depends on the underwriter), if you can get in touch with whoever did this for your managing agent you could get them to index and readdress it - if not you'll have to pay for a new one. Some owners will only value the reinstatement from the ground up, thereby assuming that nothing will destroy the basement, but it's a risky business as if you're claiming outside your declared value by more than a certain margin (known as a 'Day One Uplift - usually 5-10%) your cover is void. And by void I mean VOID. Like...... VOID.

That leads me on to the Material Damage/Business Interruption section.

I'm presuming there are no businesses run out of the property, or at least none that need BI cover, and that nobody sublets their flat to want any kind of loss of rent clause. You can insure for loss of rent, yes, but most single resi landlords don't.

MD is calculated as a percentage of DV, bear in mind that you need to insure not just the flats themselves but also the structure of the building, the roof, the foundations, any kind of basement... so it can turn out to be more than you were perhaps expecting. There is no nice easy way to tell you a £psqft value, as the DV is a rebuilding cost so varies on the construction market, on material costs, on what your building's construction is like, etc etc. For MD cover, some underwriters/brokers will inspect, depending on the size of the property, and some will not. You'd be well advised to look at building surveys etc (if you have access to any) and find out about any defects. Also, you may need a flood risk plan if you're in a flood risk area. Depending on the building itself, you may also need 3p cover.

Right, those are enough to be getting started with - there's a whole lot more...

Asset Managers, hey? Worth our weight in gold. :P

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Brokers, kind of depends on the size of the building - you said 4 flats, but of approximately how many sqft? Some will do better deals on larger ones and some on smaller ones... is it a house that's been converted into 4 flats? Or a purpose-built block? Does it have parking or a basement? Do you own the leasehold (I'm presuming you do) or the freehold (presuming not)? Is it a whole building?

The answers to the above are kind of important for the differences!

But that aside, here are a few...

First and foremost - terror. You must have terror cover, and depending on the declared value* it can be written by underwriters directly or through the Lloyds pool. Only certain underwriters can write terror, Chubb being one.

*Declared Value: the cost of rebuilding the building - usually higher than the market value by around 15% - you'll need a 'reinstatement valuation' that's been indexed yearly (how far back depends on the underwriter), if you can get in touch with whoever did this for your managing agent you could get them to index and readdress it - if not you'll have to pay for a new one. Some owners will only value the reinstatement from the ground up, thereby assuming that nothing will destroy the basement, but it's a risky business as if you're claiming outside your declared value by more than a certain margin (known as a 'Day One Uplift - usually 5-10%) your cover is void. And by void I mean VOID. Like...... VOID.

That leads me on to the Material Damage/Business Interruption section.

I'm presuming there are no businesses run out of the property, or at least none that need BI cover, and that nobody sublets their flat to want any kind of loss of rent clause. You can insure for loss of rent, yes, but most single resi landlords don't.

MD is calculated as a percentage of DV, bear in mind that you need to insure not just the flats themselves but also the structure of the building, the roof, the foundations, any kind of basement... so it can turn out to be more than you were perhaps expecting. There is no nice easy way to tell you a £psqft value, as the DV is a rebuilding cost so varies on the construction market, on material costs, on what your building's construction is like, etc etc. For MD cover, some underwriters/brokers will inspect, depending on the size of the property, and some will not. You'd be well advised to look at building surveys etc (if you have access to any) and find out about any defects. Also, you may need a flood risk plan if you're in a flood risk area. Depending on the building itself, you may also need 3p cover.

Right, those are enough to be getting started with - there's a whole lot more...

Asset Managers, hey? Worth our weight in gold. :P

Jeez... A lot to think about. So how on earth does a broker provide a quote without having assessed all this information? If they need to know all this before they can provide a price they must have to visit the building or something surely?

Square foot I can make a stab at
It's a Victorian conversion
We don't own the freehold
We do have terror insurance (out of interest why do you HAVE to have this?)
Declared value - it's currently certainly not higher than the mkt value of all 4 flats by 15%, in fact it's not even the value of all 4 flats! However why would the reinstatement value be the market cost? Surely mkt cost is likely to be higher than the sum of the bricks and mortar and the labour to put it together?
There is a basement but it's one of the flats, it's not entirely underground, it's kind of half n half, the ground floor is raised - front door is up steps
No businesses and no rental insurance needed
I don't understand how MD is different from DV....
We're not on a flood plain, we're on a hill in SE London, it would take somer serious, serious flooding to reach us
What's 3p cover?

lost_in_thought

answers in red...

Headhuunter wrote:

Jeez... A lot to think about. yep So how on earth does a broker provide a quote without having assessed all this information? they can go to your previous broker and see how that went, they base it on similar buildings, or your previous agent had it on an umbrella policy where several assets were insured and had an agreed rate If they need to know all this before they can provide a price they must have to visit the building or something surely? some do

Square foot I can make a stab at Please do!
It's a Victorian conversion of a house into 4 flats?
We don't own the freehold
We do have terror insurance (out of interest why do you HAVE to have this?) them's the rules
Declared value - it's currently certainly not higher than the mkt value of all 4 flats by 15%, in fact it's not even the value of all 4 flats! However why would the reinstatement value be the market cost? Surely mkt cost is likely to be higher than the sum of the bricks and mortar and the labour to put it together? It tends as a rule to be higher than commercial market value by 15% rather than private, sorry, that was unclear.

There is a basement but it's one of the flats, it's not entirely underground, it's kind of half n half, the ground floor is raised - front door is up steps OK
No businesses and no rental insurance needed good!
I don't understand how MD is different from DV.... Sorry - MD = material damage = a section of your insurance cover, DV = Declaed Value = the valuation you need for insurance purposes
We're not on a flood plain, we're on a hill in SE London, it would take somer serious, serious flooding to reach us good
What's 3p cover? Third Party - doesn't sound like you should need it

Oh and were I arranging cover on a consultancy basis I'd certainly charge £4k.

prawny

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

waddlie

lost_in_thought wrote:

answers in red...

Headhuunter wrote:

Jeez... A lot to think about. yep So how on earth does a broker provide a quote without having assessed all this information? they can go to your previous broker and see how that went, they base it on similar buildings, or your previous agent had it on an umbrella policy where several assets were insured and had an agreed rate If they need to know all this before they can provide a price they must have to visit the building or something surely? some do

Square foot I can make a stab at Please do!
It's a Victorian conversion of a house into 4 flats?
We don't own the freehold
We do have terror insurance (out of interest why do you HAVE to have this?) them's the rules
Declared value - it's currently certainly not higher than the mkt value of all 4 flats by 15%, in fact it's not even the value of all 4 flats! However why would the reinstatement value be the market cost? Surely mkt cost is likely to be higher than the sum of the bricks and mortar and the labour to put it together? It tends as a rule to be higher than commercial market value by 15% rather than private, sorry, that was unclear.

There is a basement but it's one of the flats, it's not entirely underground, it's kind of half n half, the ground floor is raised - front door is up steps OK
No businesses and no rental insurance needed good!
I don't understand how MD is different from DV.... Sorry - MD = material damage = a section of your insurance cover, DV = Declaed Value = the valuation you need for insurance purposes
We're not on a flood plain, we're on a hill in SE London, it would take somer serious, serious flooding to reach us good
What's 3p cover? Third Party - doesn't sound like you should need it

Oh and were I arranging cover on a consultancy basis I'd certainly charge £4k.

Lit,

Don't mean to pick holes but as an ACII qualified insurance underwriter (admittedly now doing something far more interesting so I may be well out of date), a couple of things raised an eyebrow.

Reinstatement cost is 115% of the market value - where did you get that figure from?
Terror insurance is the rules - what rules?

I can't phrase this post in anyway which doesn't make me sound like an arse so apologies if that's how I've come across, just wondering where you get your info from!

waddlie

[edit - double post]

lost_in_thought

Waddlie wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

answers in red...

Headhuunter wrote:

Jeez... A lot to think about. yep So how on earth does a broker provide a quote without having assessed all this information? they can go to your previous broker and see how that went, they base it on similar buildings, or your previous agent had it on an umbrella policy where several assets were insured and had an agreed rate If they need to know all this before they can provide a price they must have to visit the building or something surely? some do

Square foot I can make a stab at Please do!
It's a Victorian conversion of a house into 4 flats?
We don't own the freehold
We do have terror insurance (out of interest why do you HAVE to have this?) them's the rules
Declared value - it's currently certainly not higher than the mkt value of all 4 flats by 15%, in fact it's not even the value of all 4 flats! However why would the reinstatement value be the market cost? Surely mkt cost is likely to be higher than the sum of the bricks and mortar and the labour to put it together? It tends as a rule to be higher than commercial market value by 15% rather than private, sorry, that was unclear.

There is a basement but it's one of the flats, it's not entirely underground, it's kind of half n half, the ground floor is raised - front door is up steps OK
No businesses and no rental insurance needed good!
I don't understand how MD is different from DV.... Sorry - MD = material damage = a section of your insurance cover, DV = Declaed Value = the valuation you need for insurance purposes
We're not on a flood plain, we're on a hill in SE London, it would take somer serious, serious flooding to reach us good
What's 3p cover? Third Party - doesn't sound like you should need it

Oh and were I arranging cover on a consultancy basis I'd certainly charge £4k.

Lit,

Don't mean to pick holes but as an ACII qualified insurance underwriter (admittedly now doing something far more interesting so I may be well out of date), a couple of things raised an eyebrow.

Reinstatement cost is 115% of the market value - where did you get that figure from?
Terror insurance is the rules - what rules?

I can't phrase this post in anyway which doesn't make me sound like an ars* so apologies if that's how I've come across, just wondering where you get your info from!

No no, not arsey at all...

The rules, as I am told, are that on commercial property in certain areas (cities) must have terror cover. It's often a requirement of loans too. There are, however, certain exemptions, according to size, location and height.

EDIT: That's another thing to consider - does the freeholder have any loan secured on the freehold?

The 115% of the market value was perhaps misleading - it was intended as a guide and in my experience the rebuilding cost of commercial property tend to be around that. It's not a figure that's set in stone, of course not, but that's where it tends to come out in my experience, and it should be noted that that's a commercial market value, not what the leaseholders tend to pay.

I've been doing this for about 6 years now, and managed at best €1.4bn of commercial property assets, so I'm fairly experienced!

There may be ways you can obtain lesser cover, but it really depends on the building and many other factors!

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

answers in red...

Headhuunter wrote:

Jeez... A lot to think about. yep So how on earth does a broker provide a quote without having assessed all this information? they can go to your previous broker and see how that went, they base it on similar buildings, or your previous agent had it on an umbrella policy where several assets were insured and had an agreed rate If they need to know all this before they can provide a price they must have to visit the building or something surely? some do

Square foot I can make a stab at Please do!
It's a Victorian conversion of a house into 4 flats?
We don't own the freehold
We do have terror insurance (out of interest why do you HAVE to have this?) them's the rules
Declared value - it's currently certainly not higher than the mkt value of all 4 flats by 15%, in fact it's not even the value of all 4 flats! However why would the reinstatement value be the market cost? Surely mkt cost is likely to be higher than the sum of the bricks and mortar and the labour to put it together? It tends as a rule to be higher than commercial market value by 15% rather than private, sorry, that was unclear.

There is a basement but it's one of the flats, it's not entirely underground, it's kind of half n half, the ground floor is raised - front door is up steps OK
No businesses and no rental insurance needed good!
I don't understand how MD is different from DV.... Sorry - MD = material damage = a section of your insurance cover, DV = Declaed Value = the valuation you need for insurance purposes
We're not on a flood plain, we're on a hill in SE London, it would take somer serious, serious flooding to reach us good
What's 3p cover? Third Party - doesn't sound like you should need it

Oh and were I arranging cover on a consultancy basis I'd certainly charge £4k.

Thanks a lot. Not sure about the £4k but I might be able to get you a high paid job at an investment bank in commercial real estate securitisation or as a real estate credit analyst or something.... That is if that market ever comes back! Otherwise it'll have to be a wee drinkie or 2 at some point :P

Sq foot must be between 3500-4000.... Bit of a guess though
Can't see any reference to an MD value on the current doc but there is a value for reinstatement cost and we're insured for a 30% on top of that by the looks of it
We have public liability insurance of £5 million - is that 3p?

waddlie

Lit,

Fair enough! When I was underwriting it was at the height of the property market bubble and reinstatement values were usually a fraction of the market value, particularly for residential property.

Regarding terror insurance, my understanding is that it's not required by statute (which is what I thought you meant), but Pool Re exists to offer cover via the usual insurance companies and would often be included as standard or as an optional extra on a buildings policy. I think terrorism cover is normally "required" by the property owner/freeholder to make sure they're covered if the building gets bombed or whatever. In this case Headhuunter and friends would probably be breaching the terms of the lease by not having cover in place.

One more question, are the assets you manage typically commercial buildings, eg shops and offices?

Headhuunter

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

lost_in_thought

Waddlie wrote:

Lit,

Fair enough! When I was underwriting it was at the height of the property market bubble and reinstatement values were usually a fraction of the market value, particularly for residential property.

Regarding terror insurance, my understanding is that it's not required by statute (which is what I thought you meant), but Pool Re exists to offer cover via the usual insurance companies and would often be included as standard or as an optional extra on a buildings policy. I think terrorism cover is normally "required" by the property owner/freeholder to make sure they're covered if the building gets bombed or whatever. In this case Headhuunter and friends would probably be breaching the terms of the lease by not having cover in place.

One more question, are the assets you manage typically commercial buildings, eg shops and offices?

Oh no, it's not required by law, but almost all buildings cover excludes it, certainly in towns/cities. That's why it has to be covered separately. If you have a very low, small unit in the back end of nowhere you might persuade someone to cover it on the MD policy.

And I've managed everything from individual mews houses to IBM's Italian headquarters.

lost_in_thought

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

I've got a copy of the "policy schedule" which is literally 2 pages in a pdf doc which has various sums insured etc on it, but there's no small print or anything. Is that what you mean?

lost_in_thought

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

I've got a copy of the "policy schedule" which is literally 2 pages in a pdf doc which has various sums insured etc on it, but there's no small print or anything. Is that what you mean?

It's not, what I mean is the 'policy wording' - it's likely to be a large document.

If you're not looking to make any particular saving then cover with the same broker on the same terms, but if you are then you should shop around, and you should look at the wording.

Also I think it's always a good idea to know your insurance policy inside out, but then I would!

rjsterry

Not that I know anything about this subject really, but I remember noting that the reinstatement value in the buildings insurance held by Wandsworth Council* on my previous (ex-local authority) flat was roughly half of the what we paid for it. This was one flat in a large purpose built block, though, so the rebuild cost (per flat) would be significantly less than the (private) market value.

*Buildings insurance was still covered by the council, but we had to obtain proof of cover for our mortgage

BTW, does everyone really still work in square feet?

lost_in_thought

rjsterry wrote:

BTW, does everyone really still work in square feet?

Yep!

Or on the continent it's sqm. So I spend my life converting. It's 10.764 if you're interested.

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

I've got a copy of the "policy schedule" which is literally 2 pages in a pdf doc which has various sums insured etc on it, but there's no small print or anything. Is that what you mean?

It's not, what I mean is the 'policy wording' - it's likely to be a large document.

If you're not looking to make any particular saving then cover with the same broker on the same terms, but if you are then you should shop around, and you should look at the wording.

Also I think it's always a good idea to know your insurance policy inside out, but then I would!

I knew there must be another document... We requested the document from the managing agent several times but all they sent was this 2 pager... They were bloody rubbish.

rjsterry

lost_in_thought wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

BTW, does everyone really still work in square feet?

Yep!

Or on the continent it's sqm. So I spend my life converting. It's 10.764 if you're interested.

I know the conversion as we keep having to convert back for clients who 'don't understand square metres'. The construction industry is remarkably well metric-ified (sorry) considering it's general resistance to new ideas.

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

BTW, does everyone really still work in square feet?

Yep!

Or on the continent it's sqm. So I spend my life converting. It's 10.764 if you're interested.

Still sq ft on most estate agents' sites too, or if it is in metric it's in imperial as well. Was talking about this at work the other day. When I was at school we were taught only in metric. I remember being told that when I had grown up the entire world would be metricised and I didn't need to worry my little head about old fashioned miles, feet and inches. I never ever had a formal education in imperial and I still don't know how many yards to a mile or pounds in a ton etc etc. I just have ideas based on seeing street signs or being told that such and such is a 2 mile walk or I am 6ft 3 or whatever...

lost_in_thought

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

I've got a copy of the "policy schedule" which is literally 2 pages in a pdf doc which has various sums insured etc on it, but there's no small print or anything. Is that what you mean?

It's not, what I mean is the 'policy wording' - it's likely to be a large document.

If you're not looking to make any particular saving then cover with the same broker on the same terms, but if you are then you should shop around, and you should look at the wording.

Also I think it's always a good idea to know your insurance policy inside out, but then I would!

I knew there must be another document... We requested the document from the managing agent several times but all they sent was this 2 pager... They were bloody rubbish.

It's kinda normal to be fair to them. Buildings insurance is bloody complicated, so even brokers will often pare down the policy wordings into easily understandable summaries, but you do lose a lot of the detail.

There may be several documents depending on how cover is placed. Be warned.

By understanding all the detail, though, you can use your insurance at its best, and make real savings!

rjsterry

1760 yards in a mile; 1inch = 25.4mm (hence all those weird decimals on seat posts, stems and bars) so roughly, 4" = 10cm.

A few more ready reckoners - a standard door leaf is 1981mm high or 6'6"

I could go on, but it's really not very interesting.

In the UK, 1 ton = 2,240lbs, but in the US, 1 ton = 2,000lbs

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

prawny wrote:

HH Towergate are an insurance broker just give them a call and they'll sort it out for you.

Otherwise we deal with a broker called residents line, I'm sure they do that sort of thing. But it's a simple job for any personal lines insurance broker. I used to do quite a few of them in my old job. One policy for the whole building in the name of a residents association, simples.

Our current policy is with Towergate and our "independent" broker is apparently Towergate as well... Have phoned them and they are supposed to be calling back...

Get them to send you a copy of your policy.

I've got a copy of the "policy schedule" which is literally 2 pages in a pdf doc which has various sums insured etc on it, but there's no small print or anything. Is that what you mean?

It's not, what I mean is the 'policy wording' - it's likely to be a large document.

If you're not looking to make any particular saving then cover with the same broker on the same terms, but if you are then you should shop around, and you should look at the wording.

Also I think it's always a good idea to know your insurance policy inside out, but then I would!

I knew there must be another document... We requested the document from the managing agent several times but all they sent was this 2 pager... They were bloody rubbish.

It's kinda normal to be fair to them. Buildings insurance is bloody complicated, so even brokers will often pare down the policy wordings into easily understandable summaries, but you do lose a lot of the detail.

There may be several documents depending on how cover is placed. Be warned.

By understanding all the detail, though, you can use your insurance at its best, and make real savings!

Yeah, that's what I want to do, but it all sounds very complicated! Also when I called Towergate, they hinted that as we don't own the freehold they would be sending all the details and renewal quotes etc to the freeholder rather than us which is annoying but I suppose logical

lost_in_thought

Headhuunter wrote:

Yeah, that's what I want to do, but it all sounds very complicated! Also when I called Towergate, they hinted that as we don't own the freehold they would be sending all the details and renewal quotes etc to the freeholder rather than us which is annoying but I suppose logical

PM me an email address and I'll email you a policy wording for an individual mews house, 4 floors, 1 basement, 2135 sqft all in, worth about £4m. It'll give you an idea of a basic policy.

EDIT: And yeah, Towergate may well do that. If this is your first year as 'managers' of your property this could be tricky - do you have good relations with the ex-manager?

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yeah, that's what I want to do, but it all sounds very complicated! Also when I called Towergate, they hinted that as we don't own the freehold they would be sending all the details and renewal quotes etc to the freeholder rather than us which is annoying but I suppose logical

PM me an email address and I'll email you a policy wording for an individual mews house, 4 floors, 1 basement, 2135 sqft all in, worth about £4m. It'll give you an idea of a basic policy.

EDIT: And yeah, Towergate may well do that. If this is your first year as 'managers' of your property this could be tricky - do you have good relations with the ex-manager?

OK will PM you. Our relations with the ex manager are just professional. We used a solicitor to take control of the building so there was no nastiness directly between us. The solicitor handled it all. What does the ex manager have to do with it though? It sounds like the broker/insurance company may have sent the policy doc straight to the freeholder and perhaps the manager was only involved on a billing basis (ie in billing us, the leaseholders). There was one chap who used to get into regular bitch slapping sessions with the manager but he moved out so is not involved anymore....

lost_in_thought

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yeah, that's what I want to do, but it all sounds very complicated! Also when I called Towergate, they hinted that as we don't own the freehold they would be sending all the details and renewal quotes etc to the freeholder rather than us which is annoying but I suppose logical

PM me an email address and I'll email you a policy wording for an individual mews house, 4 floors, 1 basement, 2135 sqft all in, worth about £4m. It'll give you an idea of a basic policy.

EDIT: And yeah, Towergate may well do that. If this is your first year as 'managers' of your property this could be tricky - do you have good relations with the ex-manager?

OK will PM you. Our relations with the ex manager are just professional. We used a solicitor to take control of the building so there was no nastiness directly between us. The solicitor handled it all. What does the ex manager have to do with it though? It sounds like the broker/insurance company may have sent the policy doc straight to the freeholder and perhaps the manager was only involved on a billing basis (ie in billing us, the leaseholders). There was one chap who used to get into regular ***** slapping sessions with the manager but he moved out so is not involved anymore....

The ex-manager has nothing to do with it, but if you're friendly with them you may be able to get more info from them on the previous policies and any negotiations, which could help you make a saving!

Of course, the freeholder could have negotiated the whole thing and the manager may have literally just run the recharging to you guys, as you suspect!

Arguments with leaseholders are normal, but doing favours for free for people you dislike isn't!

greg66_tri_v2.0

rjsterry wrote:

1760 yards in a mile; 1inch = 25.4mm (hence all those weird decimals on seat posts, stems and bars) so roughly, 4" = 10cm.

A few more ready reckoners - a standard door leaf is 1981mm high or 6'6"

I could go on, but it's really not very interesting.

In the UK, 1 ton = 2,240lbs, but in the US, 1 ton = 2,000lbs

A-ha!

Without the use of google:

- how many yards in a chain?
- how many square chains in an acre?
- What did the French propose a metre to be at the end of the 18th century?

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yeah, that's what I want to do, but it all sounds very complicated! Also when I called Towergate, they hinted that as we don't own the freehold they would be sending all the details and renewal quotes etc to the freeholder rather than us which is annoying but I suppose logical

PM me an email address and I'll email you a policy wording for an individual mews house, 4 floors, 1 basement, 2135 sqft all in, worth about £4m. It'll give you an idea of a basic policy.

EDIT: And yeah, Towergate may well do that. If this is your first year as 'managers' of your property this could be tricky - do you have good relations with the ex-manager?

OK will PM you. Our relations with the ex manager are just professional. We used a solicitor to take control of the building so there was no nastiness directly between us. The solicitor handled it all. What does the ex manager have to do with it though? It sounds like the broker/insurance company may have sent the policy doc straight to the freeholder and perhaps the manager was only involved on a billing basis (ie in billing us, the leaseholders). There was one chap who used to get into regular ***** slapping sessions with the manager but he moved out so is not involved anymore....

The ex-manager has nothing to do with it, but if you're friendly with them you may be able to get more info from them on the previous policies and any negotiations, which could help you make a saving!

Of course, the freeholder could have negotiated the whole thing and the manager may have literally just run the recharging to you guys, as you suspect!

Arguments with leaseholders are normal, but doing favours for free for people you dislike isn't!

Ooh look I got censored! I might speak to these Towergate people to see what they say and then perhaps bung a call to the freeholder who I've never spoken to before...

rjsterry

Greg66 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

1760 yards in a mile; 1inch = 25.4mm (hence all those weird decimals on seat posts, stems and bars) so roughly, 4" = 10cm.

A few more ready reckoners - a standard door leaf is 1981mm high or 6'6"

I could go on, but it's really not very interesting.

In the UK, 1 ton = 2,240lbs, but in the US, 1 ton = 2,000lbs

A-ha!

Without the use of google:

- how many yards in a chain?
- how many square chains in an acre?
- What did the French propose a metre to be at the end of the 18th century?

Now I know you're not *that* old.

lost_in_thought

rjsterry wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

1760 yards in a mile; 1inch = 25.4mm (hence all those weird decimals on seat posts, stems and bars) so roughly, 4" = 10cm.

A few more ready reckoners - a standard door leaf is 1981mm high or 6'6"

I could go on, but it's really not very interesting.

In the UK, 1 ton = 2,240lbs, but in the US, 1 ton = 2,000lbs

A-ha!

Without the use of google:

- how many yards in a chain?
- how many square chains in an acre?
- What did the French propose a metre to be at the end of the 18th century?

Now I know you're not *that* old.

I learned all that at school! Damned if I can remember the answers though.

And yeah, our tonnes are heavier. And better. Like our billions.

waddlie

lost_in_thought wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

1760 yards in a mile; 1inch = 25.4mm (hence all those weird decimals on seat posts, stems and bars) so roughly, 4" = 10cm.

A few more ready reckoners - a standard door leaf is 1981mm high or 6'6"

I could go on, but it's really not very interesting.

In the UK, 1 ton = 2,240lbs, but in the US, 1 ton = 2,000lbs

A-ha!

Without the use of google:

- how many yards in a chain?
- how many square chains in an acre?
- What did the French propose a metre to be at the end of the 18th century?

Now I know you're not *that* old.

I learned all that at school! Damned if I can remember the answers though.

And yeah, our tonnes are heavier. And better. Like our billions.

...and our gallons...