the Cyclo cross racing post

DavidBelcher

Monty Dog wrote:

Raced at Sonning last year in the snow which was a real hoot - the course is pretty flat and is a combination of open field, narrow footpaths through the woods, a rutted track around a field and back through the woods. The course is narrow in places through the woods making over-taking quite tricky.

Not getting it mixed up with the December race at nearby Checkendon are you? There wasn't any snow at Sonning last November although the grass was frozen solid in a few spots. Chiltern Edge School was a mostly flat course with some short, steep twisting ascents/descents involving the grass bank near the school perimeter fence. Think there were some hurdles thrown in, plus a short stretch of winding singletrack through some woods. Possibly also a bit of sand based on a long-jump pit? Can't quite remember.

David

Monty Dog

Oops, Checkendon it was - early onset Altzeimers kicking in there...

Barbarossa

The organisers have posted a video of tomorrows course San Cesario 6° Tappa Modena Winter Cup. A bit too fast for my liking!

Monty Dog

Rode Sonning Common yesterday and a combination of minimal training for the last few weeks and a deceptive headwind meant I blew-up big-stylee with about a lap to go! About 120-starters meant that us Wessex Vets were ungridden effectively relegated to start at the back. Gave it plent of welly on the first few laps to see me up in the 20s or so - tried to stick with a small group but was heeded by a lapped guy on an MTB who got in the way on one of the narrow sections which meant I was gapped. Whilst the course was mainly flat, it felt like 3/4 headwind and by about lap 6, I was pecking - Mike Cotty having lapped me earlier finished just behind me at 60 minutes so I had to endure one further lap! On the basis that I've been used to racing for 45 minutes, finishing at 68 minutes, I was completely stuffed - oh, how I wanted to hear that lap-bell sound.

DavidBelcher

Monty Dog wrote:

Rode Sonning Common yesterday and a combination of minimal training for the last few weeks and a deceptive headwind meant I blew-up big-stylee with about a lap to go! About 120-starters meant that us Wessex Vets were ungridden effectively relegated to start at the back. Gave it plent of welly on the first few laps to see me up in the 20s or so - tried to stick with a small group but was heeded by a lapped guy on an MTB who got in the way on one of the narrow sections which meant I was gapped. Whilst the course was mainly flat, it felt like 3/4 headwind and by about lap 6, I was pecking - Mike Cotty having lapped me earlier finished just behind me at 60 minutes so I had to endure one further lap! On the basis that I've been used to racing for 45 minutes, finishing at 68 minutes, I was completely stuffed - oh, how I wanted to hear that lap-bell sound.

That straight bit past the football pitches into the headwind was deceptively tough and seemed to go on forever; weather aside, great course though. Given my mediocre results I was amazed to have ended up being gridded (again) and it was no surprise at all when an awful lot of faster, better riders shot past me not long after the start whistle went! Managed to hang on to mid-field respectability (I think) with only a few riders starting behind passing me for the rest of the race although I don't know the real outcome as yet; with such a big field it'll be a few days before full results get posted. Got cramp when negotiating the hurdles on the final lap which was thoroughly unpleasant.

Crowning glory of the whole afternoon was finishing the best of the 3 riders from my club, lapping the other 2 in the process. In terms of Wessex League placings I'm well on course to keep the club trophy for 2012!

David

Monty Dog

David, I did pass you - recognised you from your pic - I was on the black/red Kuota and matching Road CC kit breathing out my ar$e on the last lap...

DavidBelcher

Monty Dog wrote:

David, I did pass you - recognised you from your pic - I was on the black/red Kuota and matching Road CC kit breathing out my ar$e on the last lap...

The bike certainly rings a bell. Are you going to Harwell a week on Sunday? I'm undecided yet, but as it's a new and untried course could be worth a look.

David

Monty Dog

I may do Harwell, but racing most weekends and with work means I'm not getting much chance of getting some decent training miles which is impacting on my racing!

DavidBelcher

Monty Dog wrote:

racing most weekends and with work means I'm not getting much chance of getting some decent training miles which is impacting on my racing!

I can sympathise there - I currently work a 40-odd hour, 6-day week most of the time and struggle to fit in any structured training (although as a non-driver I do have a daily bike commute to work which is good). Based on that I'm amazed I've completed as many events as I have, but do find that racing weekend in, weekend out is good for form and fitness in itself, albeit a silly way of going about things.

David

FransJacques

Monty Dog wrote:

I may do Harwell, but racing most weekends and with work means I'm not getting much chance of getting some decent training miles which is impacting on my racing!

I totally hear you on this, it's having a negative impact on me as well. I peaked about 3 races ago and have really, really been struggling the last 2 races. I liked the early season when I was racing every weekend and getting stronger by leaps and bounds. I don't do any other structured training for cross cuz it should be fun IMO and not a huge target. It's the same as trying too hard with a Holloween costume to out do your mates. What's the point when it's supposed to be a laugh?

I also commute 5/5 days, only 8km each way, although I try to incorporate some sprints from time to time. Not racing each weekend means other racers are using the free weekends to race other leagues or do specific training.

The legs are simply not recovering well and even on the Tuesday commute I'm still a pile of stale, lactic acid, like a stain in the fibres of my quds.

I'm still having fun but I'm not progressing any more. Need to shake it up but don't know how.

VamP

I dunno dude, I think maybe that's just how CX is. I felt a bit like this after Stanmer, but on Sunday I had a total blast and fell in love all over again.

I guess every CX race is so specific, that making comparisons is not easy.

Don't have any specific ideas on how you should 'shake it up' though

Oh, have a look on Dave Hayward's site if you haven't already, there are some wicked pics from Sunday there.

andyp

Did you race at PORC then?

I'm still recovering after a crash on the second lap on that short, grassy descent just after the section around the signing on hut. I'm not quite sure what happened but suddenly I went left and over the handlebars and ended up in the brambles. My legs and arms are heavily scratched.

FransJacques arrived just as I was thinking about continuing so I followed his wheel for the next lap, with another minor crash just before the start of the climb back up to the finish line, before getting my racing brain back and pushing on. I finished somewhere in the low 30s, I definitely overtook 214 on the climb up to the finish, and think I caught Gabor and number 5 on the MTB, but am recorded as 65th in the results, presumably because the lap counters missed me on one lap due to my number being retained by just one safety pin after my crash. I've emailed JohnMx to see if I can get a review.

As for training, I started late this season because most of my races would be in the later months of the season so I'm now in my stride, as my results recently have shown.

VamP

I thought there was no way you and Glen would be that far down the results sheets.

I was with FJ most of the race, only pulling a little lead out on him in the last lap or so. Number 159 celeste Bianchi top, you probably passed me (possibly more than once) at some point. I am 37th in the results, but probably further down as a few riders get their rightful places back

I had an awesome time, truly enjoyed it in it's sketchy gnarliness on the descents, and lung busting climbing on the way back up. I think the weather, and the muddiness helped to underscore the atmosphere, so for me the best day out yet.

As for the brambles, I had a teetering moment when I was convinced I was going to take a headfirst dive into a great big pile of them after getting knocked off track by a rider I was lapping, but I managed to stave it off somehow.

FransJacques

Andy I was in such a bad state I'm sorry I didn't remembe your crash but your face showed it for sure. You repassed me right?

I saw 2 more really bad crashes in the brambles on the left just before the bottom hairpin to start the climb - a guy in black and grey kit and the American guy from Sigma Sport or Dulwich, I can't remember. Both of them were quite unhappy.

Did Glenn Hoard finish that far down? I thought he was in front of me too but then in the later stages I was so oxygen starved I didn't notice the tons of guys picking them selves up after crashing.

Witnessed one really bad event when a rider from ELV punched an Addiscombe rider who didn't get out of his way. It was really egregeous!

andyp

I followed you down the descent and remember seeing the Sigma rider in the bushes to the left just before the bottom hairpin and wondering how on earth he managed to end up in there.

I definitely passed you but can't remember if I did so before I crashed again, on the flat muddy section before the chicane and the climb back up to the finish, or after that. I do recall seeing you heading down to the bottom hairpin as I was riding away from it on one of the final laps, if not the final lap itself.

There's a video up on Cross Crazy which misses most of my crash, but I'm sat on the ground assessing how bad the bump to my head was as you come down.

GiantMike

FransJacques wrote:

Witnessed one really bad event when a rider from ELV punched an Addiscombe rider who didn't get out of his way. It was really egregeous!

Presumably punchee took the puncher apart after the race? Or had a word with the Commissaire to get him banned from the sport.

Monty Dog

Admittedly there can be some gentle "handling-off" of other riders in CX, particularly at the start when it can get a bit hectic (nothing like having your ar$e fondled to break your concentration!) but there is no excuse for one rider assaulting another for a 'racing' incident. I agree he should be disciplined. One of the reasons I don't enjoy road racing so much is the degree of seriousness that some people take, to the degree that they will deliberately put other riders at risk / in danger for the sake of a place or two.

VamP

FransJacques wrote:

Witnessed one really bad event when a rider from ELV punched an Addiscombe rider who didn't get out of his way. It was really egregeous!

I didn't see that, that's really poor. I thought CX was safe from this.

VamP

andyp wrote:

before I crashed again, on the flat muddy section before the chicane and the climb back up to the finish,

Ha, there was a rhododendron bush on the left there, in a little kink just before the chicane, which I rode through at least twice. Judging by the state of it on last lap, I wasn't alone in this. There was just no grip to be found on the run up to it at all...

FransJacques

GiantMike wrote:

FransJacques wrote:

Witnessed one really bad event when a rider from ELV punched an Addiscombe rider who didn't get out of his way. It was really egregeous!

Presumably punchee took the puncher apart after the race? Or had a word with the Commissaire to get him banned from the sport.

Neither. I played agony aunt instead. He was on an MTB and riding b/c it was his club organizing - he's defo not a 'regular' so might not have realized that when a rider says "On your right" they expect you to pinch left. He was well upset but calmed down.

So, given the next LL race isn't until a good month from now at HH, what does everyone propose to do in between?

VamP

I am not going to be able to make HH, so I am gonna give the Imperial Winter League a little try this Saturday, and do the CL League hillingdon CX race on the 11th.

Then I'm going to have a little break, until the 27th, as well as the New Year's Madison at HH. Which I fully expect to turf up to with a hangover

DavidBelcher

VamP wrote:

I am not going to be able to make HH, so I am gonna give the Imperial Winter League a little try this Saturday, and do the CL League hillingdon CX race on the 11th.

Then I'm going to have a little break, until the 27th, as well as the New Year's Madison at HH. Which I fully expect to turf up to with a hangover

Hillingdon's a good course, assuming your bike is robust enough to be up to the job: 10- or 11-speed transmissions can quite easily die spectacular deaths there thanks to mud & grass.
May well ride there myself rather than do the Wessex Event at Harwell as I try to make at least one trip to Hillingdon in a CX season.

According to the official full results (now out at http://www.centralcxl.org.uk) I came in a lowly 80th out of 109 finishers at Sonning Common last weekend, much worse than expected, thought I was somewhere in the 60s [1].

On the plus side, due to a lot of Wessex seniors being away at the Derby National Trophy event or just not riding full stop, I look to have mopped up some useful league points there (45-50 pts.).

David

[1] Not in an Austin Powers sense, though

leggy blonde

Witnessed one really bad event when a rider from ELV punched an Addiscombe rider who didn't get out of his way. It was really egregeous!

I presume this refers to me, I would normally have swept this under the carpet as I thought this was sorted out on the day between both riders but the incident recounted on this forum is incorrect and so the suggested retaliations are more than a bit unfair.

Firstly I (VCL rider) did NOT punch anyone. As I was lapping the other rider with 200m to go I called which side I wanted to pass but the other rider felt there was not time or space. As I was being chased closely I made the decision to force my way through keeping BOTH hands on the bars. No one came down as there was enough space. Lots of shouting and swearing ensued from both parties.

After the race the other rider approached me and the shouting continued. I refused to apologise at the time as I felt (and still feel) there was space and time for me to pass safely.

10mins later I approached the rider in the car park, offered my hand and apologised for overreacting. He accepted the apology, explained that he had complained to a commisaire but nevertheless we parted on good terms.

The initial incident happened by the pits right in front of a comm and I was subsequently warned for my language, NOT for my riding.

I have been racing 'cross for over 20 years and I've been an organiser for the last few. I have never experienced anything like this before and certainly never been spoken to/warned. I always make it a point of calling to lapped riders well in advance and have lost good race positions more than once this season by holding back when there hasn't been space to pass at crucial moments.

I hope this clears up the matter and the pitchforks are put away

Philip

cp69

Hey leggy blonde it was me you had the set too with!
Someone told me this is on bikeradar so thought i better sign in and clear it up too!
Yes just to clarify this is all cleared up now and we did shake make up etc although we will have to differ our opinions me having space to pull over to the left without taking a couple of guys out ,but its all history now,anyway no doubt see you at another soon,by the way my 9 yo son is a member of vcl-great club!

FJ-thanks for stepping in anyway,oh and by the way i have raced quite a few cx and RR, tons of duathlon etc so i know exactly what on your right/left means-have had to shout it out plenty myself enough just a bit of confusion this time
Pitchforks firmly put away now

leggy blonde

Thanks CP, hopefully see you at another cross race soon.

Philip

FransJacques

Yay we're all happy now :-) See? In road racing that would never happen there would have been a vendetta for years! Look forward to seeing both of you guys out soon.

Indeed Hillingdon (Central League) on for Sunday the 11th, but there is also this one in the Wessex League near Didcot http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events ... _container

I really struggle to understand how BCF rank it but it's National "B" which means slightly more points than National "C" which, for example, last weekend at Penshurst was, but not all LL events are. Go figure. Am thinking of the Didcot race b/c the old Vets start at 12:40 which is more sociable when you have people coming over for afternoon cocktails and buffet.

VamP

Quite tempting to try the Wessex league race, as they separate out Vets, Juniors and Women from the Seniors race, which should mean a thinner field, and less issues with fighting hard on lap 1 to overcome not being gridded. But then Hillingdon is about half the distance...

Anyone raced both Hillingdon and Didcot that can advise as to the relative merits of the two courses?

DavidBelcher

VamP wrote:

Quite tempting to try the Wessex league race, as they separate out Vets, Juniors and Women from the Seniors race, which should mean a thinner field, and less issues with fighting hard on lap 1 to overcome not being gridded. But then Hillingdon is about half the distance...

Anyone raced both Hillingdon and Didcot that can advise as to the relative merits of the two courses?

Didcot is an unknown quantity - this is the first season it's been used AFAIK. If you race at Senior level, a Wessex race may be a baptism of fire, depending on your fitness levels; compared to my experience of London/Central races there are way less middling-to-low ability riders to find yourself racing against. Events tend to be dominated by extremely proficient riders from a handful of about 5 or 6 mostly-sponsored teams who go like the clappers and leave mere mortals like myself shot to pieces....

David

VamP

DavidBelcher wrote:

VamP wrote:

Quite tempting to try the Wessex league race, as they separate out Vets, Juniors and Women from the Seniors race, which should mean a thinner field, and less issues with fighting hard on lap 1 to overcome not being gridded. But then Hillingdon is about half the distance...

Anyone raced both Hillingdon and Didcot that can advise as to the relative merits of the two courses?

Didcot is an unknown quantity - this is the first season it's been used AFAIK. If you race at Senior level, a Wessex race may be a baptism of fire, depending on your fitness levels; compared to my experience of London/Central races there are way less middling-to-low ability riders to find yourself racing against. Events tend to be dominated by extremely proficient riders from a handful of about 5 or 6 mostly-sponsored teams who go like the clappers and leave mere mortals like myself shot to pieces....

David

Ah... er, no. I am ''lucky'' enough to be old enough for the Vets

BeaconRuth

FransJacques wrote:

Indeed Hillingdon (Central League) on for Sunday the 11th, but there is also this one in the Wessex League near Didcot http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events ... _container

I really struggle to understand how BCF rank it but it's National "B" which means slightly more points than National "C" which, for example, last weekend at Penshurst was, but not all LL events are. Go figure. Am thinking of the Didcot race b/c the old Vets start at 12:40 which is more sociable when you have people coming over for afternoon cocktails and buffet.

I'm planning on racing at Didcot as my brother works there so it's a chance to visit him and his family - it falls in a gap in the West Mids League which I usually ride. A brand new course, I understand, but the setting should be superb anyway. I seem to recall lots of nice lawns when I was last there so I hope they don't mind a few muddy tracks appearing over that weekend. Perhaps they've got some wilder areas there that I didn't see!

AFAIK the classification of the races is as much about the facilities and course as it is about how hard it is to win points. All seems a bit pointless (in my case very 'pointless') given that some leagues seem to be all/mainly "B" events and others all/mainly "C" events. So there's no parity of any kind from one race to another as to how easy/hard it is to earn points.

Ruth