the Cyclo cross racing post

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  • Inovache
    Inovache Posts: 61
    Above two posts seen, noted and agreed. I would like to say it was a great event and well run with a challenging course. Photographers also did a fine job. Just hope my little issue gets resolved.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    FransJacques wrote:
    Anyone riding Kempton (near Bedford) this weekend in the Central League? Thinking of giving it a go. Anyone know what kind of course it is?

    I'm involved in marking the course for the race Frans (but not course designer!). It's basically a big grassy area to the side of a couple of lakes which are used for waterskiing/wakeboarding. The bit we're using was where they dumped all the earth they dug out of the lakes, which is now all grass. Expect to go up and down the mound more than a few times, I don't think any of the climbs will be unrideable. When I say all grass it's not manicured like a school field, more like the infield at Hillingdon.

    Although I know the venue well I've only ridden round there once, on my MTB in the dark, so I don''t know how it rides. Might be bumpy as hell, might be smooth, not sure. Also difficult to say whether it'll cut up. It's not been used for CX races before but has been used as part of an off road triathlon course.
  • Inovache
    Inovache Posts: 61
    Sounds interesting, although you just compared it with Hillingdon :shock: I'll anticipate sore arms then!
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    FransJacques wrote:
    AndyP, good new$ I have $ome ca$h £or you £rom your £i£th place in the ve£$! It's not enuf to get you a tube of tubular glue necessarily but it's nice to be recognized. They didn't want anyone but you to take the emvelope but I told them I was best man at your wedding. :-) Well I didn't but I told them I'd see you again.

    Wow, prize money! :shock:

    Thanks for collecting it, I'm not going to make this weekend's race at Gunpowder Park, but will be at PORC on the 27th.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Inovache wrote:
    Sounds interesting, although you just compared it with Hillingdon :shock: I'll anticipate sore arms then!


    Were the sore arms at Hillingdon due to bumpiness? Not sure whether it'll be the same on Sunday it's just unmanicured like the Hillingdon infield.
  • Inovache
    Inovache Posts: 61
    Yeah Hillingdon was very bumpy. Difficult to get a rhythm going on the flats. That course beat me up a bit! As an aside, my results whinge was sorted from Luton. V happy with their prompt response. Looks like my number was missed in their software so they had to check back with their paper records. 49th and happy with it!
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The course setters at Thruxton (Wessex League) obviously didn't want to make it easy today and even laid on a sandpit for us to play in. Plenty of off-camber turns and long grass made it slippy in places, crashed twice on lap 1 going into bends too hard so stayed off the gas and just enjoyed the race.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Apparently our league is in with the Wessex league next week. Could be interesting with a massive field, we had 99 riders in our today, 180-ish when we joined in with the London league a few weeks ago.

    Who did the Bedford Central League race? How did everyone get on? Any feedback?

    There's a few things which we'd do slightly different (not just on the course), but we feel it went quite well for our first go at organising a cross race.

    My race went quite well, although I managed to snap a spoke when I was riding round to measure the course, so was dreading a puncture. Think I managed pretty even splits and didn't hair off at the start only to suffer later like I usually do.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    We have some lost property, I only saw one piece which was a High Wycombe CC long sleeve jersey. PM me if it's yours and we'll bring it to the next couple of league races (I haven't got it but clubmate has).
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    GiantMike wrote:
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

    Nope not acceptable. Although it shouldn't really be possible to cut the course unless the riders rode through the tape to go off the course.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    The course wasn't completely taped. There was tape on the inside of some corners but it was possible to ride inside this.

    In my opinion, if you want to race, then race by the rules. If you don't want to race, go and do something else.
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    hammerite wrote:
    Apparently our league is in with the Wessex league next week. Could be interesting with a massive field, we had 99 riders in our today, 180-ish when we joined in with the London league a few weeks ago.

    Who did the Bedford Central League race? How did everyone get on? Any feedback?

    There's a few things which we'd do slightly different (not just on the course), but we feel it went quite well for our first go at organising a cross race.

    My race went quite well, although I managed to snap a spoke when I was riding round to measure the course, so was dreading a puncture. Think I managed pretty even splits and didn't hair off at the start only to suffer later like I usually do.

    I rode today and really enjoyed the course. I had a bit of a disaster pre race when my tyre blew out on the way to try the course out. BC lent me a spare wheel, but it was Shimano 9 speed, so I could only find 1 gear that didn't skip. A few were complaining about the bumpy course, but it didn't seem too bad to me, I've certainly ridden worse. There was more dismounting than normal, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Overall, a great event and a good addition to the league.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    APIII wrote:

    I rode today and really enjoyed the course. I had a bit of a disaster pre race when my tyre blew out on the way to try the course out. BC lent me a spare wheel, but it was Shimano 9 speed, so I could only find 1 gear that didn't skip. A few were complaining about the bumpy course, but it didn't seem too bad to me, I've certainly ridden worse. There was more dismounting than normal, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Overall, a great event and a good addition to the league.

    Thanks, shame about the wheel. Were you one of the LB riders, I was talking to Carl when I think someone asked if you'd given the wheel back.

    Agree it was bumpy, but I suppose it makes a change to using perfectly smooth school fields like we race on most weeks.
  • Richvelo
    Richvelo Posts: 6
    GiantMike wrote:
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

    Only my 3rd cross race today at Bingley :D I didn't see any queue jumping but I was glad of a breather when things bunched up at the 1st obstacle, I would say that jumping the queue and cutting corners is a definate no no and shows no respect for the other competitors or the race, once when running the 3 peaks fell race we came to a stile and everyone queued in the order they arrived (as required in the rules) untill a chap thought he'd be smarter and overtake the 20 or so waiting their turn by climbing the gate! he was soon put right by the howls of protest from everyone else, so I suppose peer pressure could be brought to bear on anyone trying to sneak an advantage. "Oi wait your turn" or summat more colourful may have an effect.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    GiantMike wrote:
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

    I think cutting corners is not acceptable.

    The queue jumping is not always clear cut however, and sometimes a technical obstacle that allows more than single file to cross it is a place where it is legitimate to attack. If some people start forming a queue due to some misguided sense of politeness, and there is space to go round without interfering with them, then I will be passing :D

    It is a race after all!
  • MikeWW
    MikeWW Posts: 723
    GiantMike wrote:
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

    Obviously you need to stick to the confines of the course as determined by the markers - but that doesn't mean that there isn't a racing line that is quicker than the route people are following. As far as I am aware there is no requirement to form an orderly queue in a cross race- so if grabbing you bike and and running walking around the bunch can be done without causing any danger to other riders then its perfectly acceptable in my book.
    www.lichfieldccc.org.uk
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The course setters at Thruxton (Wessex League) obviously didn't want to make it easy today and even laid on a sandpit for us to play in. Plenty of off-camber turns and long grass made it slippy in places, crashed twice on lap 1 going into bends too hard so stayed off the gas and just enjoyed the race.

    Glad someone enjoyed it! I suffered terribly in the Senior race (didn't crash thankfully, almost lost the back wheel once but recovered) and rolled home very much in last place. Sandpit not really my cup of tea, fast twisty grass circuit not my favoured conditions either (gloopy mud every time for me!) :(
    Just to make matters worse, on the way to get the train home, as is often the case I managed to get lost at least once cycling around the rubbish Basingstoke tribute act/town planning disaster that is Andover town centre....

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • FransJacques
    FransJacques Posts: 2,148
    MikeWW wrote:
    GiantMike wrote:
    OK. Time for a question about racing etiquette. When the field bunches up on the first lap at the first technical and a queue forms, is it acceptable for somebody to walk around the queue? On the first lap sprint, is it acceptable to ride off of the official course because you want to get an advantage by cutting corners?

    Today, at the Yorks CX league event at Bingley, there were riders who cut corners and tried to jump the queue. Feckin' cheats!

    p.s. I obviously don't think it's acceptable.

    Obviously you need to stick to the confines of the course as determined by the markers - but that doesn't mean that there isn't a racing line that is quicker than the route people are following. As far as I am aware there is no requirement to form an orderly queue in a cross race- so if grabbing you bike and and running walking around the bunch can be done without causing any danger to other riders then its perfectly acceptable in my book.
    If there are tapes and someone goes outside the tapes that's not kosher.

    But it's like a tree falling in the forest - there are things that happens which no one sees and it only make a difference if a) enough poeple witness it and tell the Commisaire and can accurately relate the perpetrator's race number (try that after 1 hour of cross), or b) a Marshall/other official sees it and takes down the perpetrator's race number and files it with the organizers/Commisaire.

    If people stay inside the tapes b/c the course is wide at that point there's no issue and no concept of queuing. If there are no tapes then it's a free for all.

    So GiantMike, it hangs on your definition of "cutting corners" or "jumping the queue". If it was inside the tapes, suck it up and learn from it instead of complaining. It's not queuing at the post office, it's racing.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    FransJacques, did you go to the Kempston race in the end?
  • FransJacques
    FransJacques Posts: 2,148
    No sir, really wanted to but was off ill Friday from work and with Penshurt this Sunday I reckoned it was time for a relaxing weekend - have raced every Sunday since 01 Sept (sometimes both days when a couple Eastern Leagues were on Saturdays) and needed a break. I wasn't getting rid of the lactic during the week.

    Did you go? I saw on google maps the wake-boarding lake you were talking about.

    Re: Penshurst/PORC - has anyone been? I hope we're not going down 12-foot drop offs or over North Short see-saws or double jumps! I'm a nervous rider as it is.

    Re: going off course & GiantMike. I forgot to paste in the BCF handbook on cross racing. Forget my words on it, read the handbook. One interesting thing of note: if there WAS a tape but it got knocked over and it's not been replaced by a Marhsall it's not totally clear if riders need respect the old tape or take advantage of new available ground. This is one reason why Marshalls need to keep inspecting and replacing the stakes and tape in the area they're marshalling.
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    FransJacques wrote:
    So GiantMike, it hangs on your definition of "cutting corners" or "jumping the queue". If it was inside the tapes, suck it up and learn from it instead of complaining. It's not queuing at the post office, it's racing.

    As I said, the corner-cutting was riding inside the inside of the course; the other side of the tape to everybody else, on the inside getting an advantage by cutting corners. Cheating.

    I see your point about queueing. From now on I'll just be an inconsiderate cnut as well then. I'll man up and accept it's a race. Hope nobody gets too close to my back wheel while I wang the bike around on the climb.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,547
    FransJacques wrote:
    Re: Penshurst/PORC - has anyone been? I hope we're not going down 12-foot drop offs or over North Short see-saws or double jumps! I'm a nervous rider as it is.
    I rode it two years ago when it was an utter mudfest. The course is based on the side of a hill and the first half of the lap was spent descending down in a series of steps, on a mixture of fire roads and singletrack. Once you reach the dead turn at the bottom, there followed a long slog back up the hill, most of which was rideable even in the mud. It's a very basic course, but because the trails are well used it can get very, very muddy if there is any rain in the days leading up to it.

    I'm going to break out the Rhinos for this, their first outing of the season.

    Btw, if you think the course is muddy, wait 'til you see the car park!
  • MikeWW
    MikeWW Posts: 723
    I take it none of you guys are doing the National Trophy then?
    Next round this Sunday
    National Champs in January?
    www.lichfieldccc.org.uk
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Yes I raced there Frans, spent half the weekend there setting up too. Seemed to go well, course was pretty fast on the whole, bit bumpy. Nice to have it a bit damp for the first time this season (though still far from muddy).
  • APIII
    APIII Posts: 2,010
    hammerite wrote:
    APIII wrote:

    I rode today and really enjoyed the course. I had a bit of a disaster pre race when my tyre blew out on the way to try the course out. BC lent me a spare wheel, but it was Shimano 9 speed, so I could only find 1 gear that didn't skip. A few were complaining about the bumpy course, but it didn't seem too bad to me, I've certainly ridden worse. There was more dismounting than normal, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. Overall, a great event and a good addition to the league.

    Thanks, shame about the wheel. Were you one of the LB riders, I was talking to Carl when I think someone asked if you'd given the wheel back.

    Agree it was bumpy, but I suppose it makes a change to using perfectly smooth school fields like we race on most weeks.

    Yeah, that was me. The one week I don't bother taking spare wheels! Anyway, I'd be kidding myself if I thought i lost more than a few places as a result.
  • DavidBelcher
    DavidBelcher Posts: 2,684
    hammerite wrote:
    Yes I raced there Frans, spent half the weekend there setting up too. Seemed to go well, course was pretty fast on the whole, bit bumpy. Nice to have it a bit damp for the first time this season (though still far from muddy).

    Are you riding at Sonning Common this weekend? Be interesting to see how it shapes up compared to last year's edition, where the ground was still frozen rock-hard in places! Could be on course for a huge field too as it's a counting event in 2 different leagues.

    David
    "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose." - Gore Vidal
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    Yes I'll be at Sonning David. Wasn't going to bother, as it's quite a way and I've done every race so far, only need 6 to count for the league, but Jnr hasn't been able to race all of them and so he needs to complete 2 more races to count. Yes they're expecting a big field, 184 when we joined up with London League, quite hairy at the start!

    APIII - I've taken spare wheels to every race this season and not needed them, until this week. I snapped a spoke pre race so had to swap over, turned out to be quite handy that I bothered. Still not been muddy enough to use my Mobiwasher that I invested in pre season :roll: :lol:
  • cycles goff
    cycles goff Posts: 19
    What is Sonning Common like to ride, pretty flat?
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Raced at Sonning last year in the snow which was a real hoot - the course is pretty flat and is a combination of open field, narrow footpaths through the woods, a rutted track around a field and back through the woods. The course is narrow in places through the woods making over-taking quite tricky.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

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