Jilted Generation

rick_chasey

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

daviesee wrote:

This recession may well be the worst - on paper - but I haven't seen it affect people as hard as the 70s, 80s or 90s, yet. I agree with the debt and I think I know what will follow. This is feeling very similar to the last time Labour were in charge. Just think, Maggie seemed like a good idea in comparison.

Give it 6 months, after October 20....

What does your crstal ball show you, then ?

Meh, i'm a bear. I can see places which rely heavily on the public sector (such as, say Sheffield, which if I'm right, has around 60% of its workforce in the public sector) absolutely shitting the bed, and I can't really see where consumer or other spending will fill the gap and keep the economy ticking over. £80bn over 4 years will hurt everyone, and, in all likelihood, will hurt the poorer more than everyone else.

But my crystal ball says the "the outlook is not positive", but the "stars might align in my favour"....

verylonglegs

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

daviesee wrote:

This recession may well be the worst - on paper - but I haven't seen it affect people as hard as the 70s, 80s or 90s, yet. I agree with the debt and I think I know what will follow. This is feeling very similar to the last time Labour were in charge. Just think, Maggie seemed like a good idea in comparison.

Give it 6 months, after October 20....

What does your crstal ball show you, then ?

Have you not heard what is coming down the track, it's in all the papers. Cuts..big cuts. I was listening to the debate that kicked off on one of the radio stations when the changes to child benefits were announced and apparently a response from someone in the know was 'if you think that's bad, wait until April and the new financial year when government departments find their budget is two thirds of what it was.' There is a lot more squeezing to come.

finchy

dmclite wrote:

I'm almost 40, worked hard since I was 16, never been on the dole. Got a degree whilst in full time work, have a beautiful family and a nice standard of living. You just have to strive for improvement if you want it. Saying that 1 generation have screwed it for the next is bollox, the world has never been so small and full of promise.

As I said before, I know that people weren't sitting there thinking "how can I f things up for my children and grandchildren". When I spoke to people in the mid-2000s about property prices, they weren't at all happy about it - all it meant for them was that if they wanted to move it cost them more, and their kids were kept off the property ladder. I do sometimes wonder if the government was doing its best to deliver for an imaginary middle England, one who, they thought, was obsessed with the value of property.

Of course when they sold, they had to sell at market value, otherwise they'd lose out by potentially tens of thousands. So IMO it's more the economic climate of the time rather than individuals being selfish. Whatever the case, that's gonna be a very, very heavy burden for decades....

You're right that the world is (or will one day again be) full of promise, but I'm a bit more pessimistic about this country. You're an engineer. What line of business are you in? Is it one that has to stay in this country, or one which can be moved abroad? The reason I ask is that with our government cutting investment in science, engineering and technology, we might end up losing massive amounts of business in that area.

Having started on my OU engineering studies (you're my role model you see ), I'm fairly optimistic about my future, but I don't know whether it will be in this country or not.

dmclite wrote:

The money people, the top whatever per cent have tried to stuff it for the man on the street, aided and abetted by an inept Labour Government who forgot what they were about.No one is starving. This is a different recession and consequence of crap management and arrogance by the top few in finance, business and government. Also a lot of help from the gutter press.

No one is starving, but cuts to public services can kill. My great-Grandmother was one of the victims of Maidstone hospital - she died a long and not particularly pleasant death because the wards weren't being cleaned properly.

neiltb

my 2 cents, the recession hasn't been that bad (seemed worse for my dad in the late 80s) but we bought our way out of it, or did we. You don't give a skint smack addict a bunch of cash as once he's paid the wolves at the door he's off to speak to his dealer. That, I believe, is what govts did by handing dough over to the banks.

Longevity is going to cause undue hardship in the coming years as there will be millions of old folks paying little if any tax and sucking up the cash for years and years.

In the 50s women started working, took long breaks to have the kids and maybe went back to work. Then they did go back but maybe part time, now after a year, straight back to work, as always, for t'internet, I have generalised but my grandmother worked when my mum left home, my mum worked PT when my younger brother went to school FT, then she worked FT when we were old enough. I know 1 woman where I work that is not FT after kids.

Where are we going to generate the money? Retire at 70, less Uni/college and the academically weak can go work in the pits (if we had them)

As for the entitlement culture, well it's ridiculous, kids with phones and parents demanding access to call them at all times etc. Where's my cap and pipe

daviesee

johnfinch wrote:

Having started on my OU engineering studies (you're my role model you see ), I'm fairly optimistic about my future, but I don't know whether it will be in this country or not.

Although manufacturing is in decline and I don't see that changing in the future, there is still a lot of demand for high quality engineering design and R&D here. For the time being.

I have worked at a couple of companies where they tried outsourcing modelling and draughting. It was a complete failure as the people doing the work may have been able to use the software but they had zero comprehension of design intent. As such the work had to be completely re-done here and was therefore ultimately more expensive.

There will always be work for talented engineers, and there still is here for the time being but given labour costs and taxes, I can see firms moving lock stock to the far east or they will go out of business to the far east. Staying mobile has been my key to success and I think that is only going to apply more so in the future.

tebbit

Speaking to a friend of mine who is in engineering he was saying that if a client wants a one off or small production run, then Britain is the place to go, there is work for engineers. All the best with the studies.

daviesee

daviesee wrote:

dmclite wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

daviesee wrote:

This recession may well be the worst - on paper - but I haven't seen it affect people as hard as the 70s, 80s or 90s, yet. I agree with the debt and I think I know what will follow. This is feeling very similar to the last time Labour were in charge. Just think, Maggie seemed like a good idea in comparison.

Give it 6 months, after October 20....

What does your crstal ball show you, then ?

Well, if history does indeed repeat itself then.....

http://www.number10.gov.uk/history-and- ... t-thatcher

"Thatcher’s first two years in office were not easy. Unemployment was very high, but the economy gradually showed improvement. She brought more of her supporters into the Cabinet, and bolstered her reputation by leading the country to war against Argentina in the Falkland Islands."

I predict an increase in terrorist threats.

Looks like history may be repeating itself a bit too accurately..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11571093

On the other hand, once the Ark Royal has gone, maybe not. Still got the subs though..............

sloboy

johnfinch wrote:

Mortgage rates at 15% and I would argue that the recession of the 90's was worse than this one - so far.

Crikey - yes I remember that. That was just the time my missus gave up work to have our first little 'un - who started Uni this year

So at the time, we had a mortgage just under 3 times my salary, but the monthly payments were 2/3rds my take home. A quick comparison with my current state gave me an estimate that that burden was like carrying a mortgage of 8 x salary at current rates !

verylonglegs

The 15% was actually only for a few hours on the day of crisis that forced the UK out of the ERM. Either side of that day they were 10%, still horrendously high yes but I’ve always thought when the 15% figure is used to support any point in a debate a little context should be applied.

sloboy

Fair enough

http://www.moneyextra.com/dictionary/In ... 03455.html

Mortgage rates at 14.5 or higher for more than a year. Other google hits suggest they were over 13% for 2 years and 4 months. Not forgetting the peak in 1985 of course.